joe jackson vs. joe jackson

making a few good records yourself < making questionable parenting decisions that result in at least a dozen hours of the finest pop music ever made

finest pop music ever made

Bullshit.

What about the shoeless one?

"i'm the man" is a classic record

i figured i'd just keep it musical

xpost

not the one that threw the World Series

fuck, xxxp

voted the black guy to avoid being racist

voted the white guy to avoid being homophobic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzhzCF77GDo

some dude otm, to a point. how much credit can you give jackson pere? he's damn lucky his kids turned out to be so talented, otherwise, what would he have been, other than a garden-variety abusive stage dad?

joe jackson vs murray wilson

voted white btw

Damn it Alex NYC, your repeated insistence that MJ and Jackson 5 were not incredible pop music is RONG. Please stop posting on Jackson threads (Bo and the white Joe excluded)

if Alex ever demonstrates any kind of appreciation for pop (not rock) music, then I'll treat his posts about MJ as something other than trolling

even tho the bulk of thriller is obv genius, i guess i could see folks who were cognizant of pop in the 80s being completely "over" MJ by a certain point, if only because of over-saturation. but to disregard the J5 and Off the Wall is just nutty

he's damn lucky his kids turned out to be so talented, otherwise, what would he have been, other than a garden-variety abusive stage dad?

not to be too controversial here, but maybe this kind of abuse produces talented kids. there are countless examples of this phenomenon in not only rock music but also classical, and maybe other genres too.

black one has just seemed like such a fucking creep through the last week i voted white one, who made like 2 good records and the song "steppin' out"

"steppin out" rules

^^^that

Abuse does not produce talent. Talent is something you're born with.

yeah steppin' out is a real fucking majestic song...it fascinated me as a kid.

if Alex ever demonstrates any kind of appreciation for pop (not rock) music, then I'll treat his posts about MJ as something other than trolling

Look, here's the bottom line for me. I'll concede that MJ/J5 made *fine* pop music, but I patently refuse to tow the rigid party line that it was anything other than life-affirming, planet-saving genius. I just can't stand the "papal infallibility" that MJ's musical legacy seemingly demands. I'm sorry, but NOT EVERYONE ON THE EARTH decided to swallow that shit.

It's not about whether I like pop or rock or punk or metal or disco or skiffle or klezmer or whathaveyou. It's about questioning conventional wisdom.

And as far as this particular debate is concerned, Joe Jackson (MJ's dad) seems pretty indefensible by ANY standard, be you a fan of MJ's or not.

and Look Sharp is better that ANYthing MJ ever put out.

i wish anthrax had covered a michael jackson song too so we could just decide on those grounds

i was talking about Janet Jackson's music too, for the record, you tool

c'mon guys we're all a part of the rhythm nation, no need to fight here

I prefer Janet over Michael, for whatever that's worth.

just listened to "stepping out" on spotify. Joe Jackson of the Jacksons is a vile toad.

http://thecreme.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/1754785121_1658829c00.jpg

Abuse does not produce talent. Talent is something you're born with.

yeah the jury is out on this frankly. cramming practice into all available hours of life is the most important thing, to do that to a kid, well...

Abuse does not produce talent. Talent is something you're born with.

Do you have a citation for this? How do you know it wasn't the constant pressure to practice and live up to lofty standards that didn't produce this talent?

guys i think we can answer the nature vs. nurture question once and for all in the 5 days before this poll closes

just listened to "stepping out" on spotify.

― the shock will be coupled with the need to dance (jim), Wednesday, 1 July 2009 19:21 (9 seconds ago) Bookmark

oh shit me too, haven't heard this song in years, fucking A+

also, Malcolm Gladwell recently claimed in his book "Outliers" that what made the Beatles great was not in-born talent so much as the fact that they played Hamburg strip clubs for 14 hours a day, years on end.

Yeah, there's Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hours rule.

xpost!

http://www.topnews.in/light/files/michael-jackson.jpg

Now -
The mist across the window hides the lines
But nothing hides the colour of the lights that shine
Electricity
so fine
Look and dry your eyes

We -
So tired of all the darkness in our lives
With no more angry words to say
Can come alive
Get into a car and drive
To the other side

Research also seems to suggest that high levels of stress can help produce extraordinary work. Anecdotally, we can observe that a great number of the most talented artists have tortured inner lives.

i fucking love old joe jackson (white, btw) stuff so this is a no brainer.

i will even vouch for "beat crazy" and "jumping jive"

A person who is tone deaf, who cannot sing a note on key is not going to be able to do so after being abused.

you got me there

maybe we just haven't beaten you enough bimble, i still believe in you

what about that guy who got struck by lightening and suddenly learned how to play the piano really quickly?

i mean Papa Joe might've had a real lightening arm

i look forward to papa joe's new "blu-ray record label" he talked about at the BET awards

can't believe I never heard about papa joe's new record label before today

signing with gamble & huff in 1976:

http://www.randexpr.com/pressphoto.php?pressphotoid=63

I saw Joe Jackson (white dude) perform in LA several years ago - great show.

He's got a great bass player.

TS Graham Maby vs. Wilton Felder.

okay I even looked at the picture but it wasn't until going to Wikipedia that I realized I was conflating Joe Jackson with Jackson Browne

'Stepping Out' is one of the best songs that I like.

Dan, you need to go to this thread

actually it's a little faster but the percolating bassline on stepping out is sorta similar to the bassline in billie jean, in a way

Do any of his of the songs sound like 'Stepping Out'?

TS Graham Maby vs. Louis Johnson

afret seeing the "interview" that Louis Theroux made with michael jackson's father in his tv series, i'm def. gonna choose the white dude.

A person who is tone deaf, who cannot sing a note on key is not going to be able to do so after being abused.

so in essence, you're saying that someone who can't sing a note on key will never be able to do so, even after practicing?

c'mon res that sentence was so perfect, just let it stand

yes of course with enough abuse they will become world renowned opera singers and be the toast of vienna and shit

I thought one was the toast of France and a weiner in Vienna. Regardless, as the children's book has it, albeit in a slightly less crude form, everybody shits.

not my kids, heh heh

yes of course with enough abuse they will become world renowned opera singers and be the toast of vienna and shit

worked for Mozart. well close enough.

you realize you a belaboring a pretty specious argument to the point where you starting to look like a real weirdo?

man if this is true i am going to just start beating the hell out of my customers

Why let verity stand in the way of a good customer beating, jjjusten?

when i go to get my bass cab reconed jjusten is gonna flog me until i play the bass part from night court perfectly : (

you realize you a belaboring a pretty specious argument to the point where you starting to look like a real weirdo?

don't unilaterally craft social reality, kthx.

"unilaterally"

anyway, my point is not that abuse is good, but rather that this sort of parental pressure might magnify innate talent.

i hope someone beats you up and it makes your posts better.

xpost - no it isn't, you big liar -- goole said Jackson was lucky his kids had innate talent to beat out of them, to which you said:

not to be too controversial here, but maybe this kind of abuse produces talented kids.

I mean I don't really care either way here, but that's a bit too galling of a switch for me not to play Rhetoric Police about it

Hmm, wonder if I should change my screenname to 'Multilateral social reality crafting'?

Ok, now I'm just imagining nabisco showing up on threads and writing, 'Papieren, bitte!'

res' posts won't get better with beatings but i think we should try

I think that joke has run its course and we should consider moving on.

we have "beaten" it into the ground, you might say

"Just beat it..."

It's not about whether I like pop or rock or punk or metal or disco or skiffle or klezmer or whathaveyou. It's about questioning conventional wisdom.

My word you are such a lil free thinker, I just can't stand it! A free thinker just like every other "punk" from your era!

okay, my last word on this topic: i don't claim to have any answers, but that doesn't mean we can't consider the possible causal relationships behind this phenomenon. i'm not saying abuse is good or that it's healthy for the child, but the world is a complex fucking place. sometimes bad actions have unexpected positive outcomes or can moderate outcomes. or maybe they don't have any impact at all. we simply don't know. i'm not sure why people here who have no fucking idea about these issues want to discount possible explanations. I'm not married to the theories I've suggested either; i'm just saying that we can't discount the possibility that this unpopular theory might be true. doesn't mean anyone is advocating abuse.

the world is a complex fucking place

yeah don't worry res, those are really not the reasons people are picking on you here (there are other reasons)

there is a difference between driving your kids past the zone of normal competence or experience for a kid in some activity, and abusing them emotionally, bodily, whatever. the behaviors may look the same, and may even occur simultaneously in some instances. even a non-abusive but very driving or achievement-oriented parent will probably not give their kid a normally "happy" childhood. it looks like joe jackson was both a driver and an abuser.

the former behavior might make a modestly talented kid into a remarkable performer and will certainly push an exceptionally talented kid into some kind of success. but it's not the abuse that did it.

i kind of hate this thread for making me post something so nitpicky and obvious

For some reason, I confused Black Joe Jackson with Joe Henderson and was like, I love Inner Urge.

:/

Do any of his of the songs sound like 'Stepping Out'?

― kind-hearted, sensitive keytar player (Abbott), Wednesday, July 1, 2009 3:14 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

ever hear "breaking us in two?" doesn't sound much like "stepping out," but it's from the same album and it's very good.

actually, as i recall, the chord progressions for both songs are really similar. "breaking us in two" is slower though.

"Breaking Us In Two" is even better than "Steppin' Out."

Different for Girls & Is She Really Going Out With Him > Steppin' Out.

Also check out the Anthrax cover of "Got The Time".

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

i see this poll didn't...break ilm in two! eh?? EHH???