Until The Light Takes Us (Norwegian Black Metal doc based on Lords of Chaos)

Anyone seen it?

http://www.ybca.org/tickets/production/view.aspx?id=9841

Ooooh! No, but now quite want to!

tempted to go on Thursday

Here's my preview of the film: http://wweek.com/events/3529/screen/ (alphabetically at bottom of page)

And here's Carrie Brownstein of Sleater Kinney bitching about it on NPR (she sat right in front of me at the screening): [urlhttp://www.npr.org/blogs/monitormix/2009/06/review_until_the_light_takes_u.html[/url]

NPR - http://www.npr.org/blogs/monitormix/2009/06/review_until_the_light_takes_u.html

BTW - contrary to the thread title, one big point this documentary makes is that Lords of Chaos is riddled with rumors and misinformation. The film actually gets first hand accounts from the people who were there and busts a lot of myths. The content and the interviews are the key in this film. The quality of the visual presentation itself is not much better than the recording quality of a Darkthrone record. But obviously one can argue that that is entirely appropriate given the subject matter.

Certainly worth watching and guaranteed to be better than the upcoming Hollywood feature that is in the works...

one big point this documentary makes is that Lords of Chaos is riddled with rumors and misinformation. The film actually gets first hand accounts from the people who were there and busts a lot of myths

I want to see it for that reason alone!

seems like valid criticism except this:

So why is so much black metal specific to Norway and not to France, New Zealand, Canada or Mexico

Wow, Carrie really didn't dig it.

I suspect the reason there isn't more live footage is that there really isn't very much from the early days. As I understand it, the Norwegian 2nd wave bands didn't play live all that much, and back in the early nineties not everybody had a mobile phone equipped with a video camera and a mike. (Really kids, it's true!)

I wonder how much this adds to "Once upon a time in Norway", which still seems to be available in its entirety on Youtube.

I'm going on Friday so I will report back then.

Is that the lady from Sleater Kinney?

Apparently so and yeah she didn't like it. That said I know enough about black metal that I don't think I'm going to miss what she's complaining about.

I like how the first comment on her review was asking about why hipsters like Thurston Moore like black metal.

I also like that he sez he knows nothing about the genre so uh. . . yeah.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I find Brownstein's take interesting. She does raise some good points.

It has to be a no-win situation for metal documentarians...if you add a lot of background info for those unfamiliar, the fans bitch about wasting time on stuff they already know. But if you assume that the majority of the people who watch the movie already know the back story, then the non-metal folks complain that it all goes over their heads.

Well the other thing with NWBM is that no one can seem to agree on the back story. Like half these guys said one thing twenty years ago and now twenty years later they are saying something completely different and swearing up and down that they were misquoted, joking, conspired against, blah blah blah.

xp Alex - I think there was a bit of this with No Wave, too.

Yeah it's certainly not unique to NBM (added that W in there to confuse myself hah), but obv the murder/arson makes NBM a little more sensational and WTF? than No Wave or krautrock or whatever.

This film is worth watching simply for the Varg interviews and the characterization of Fenriz. Beyond that, I'm waiting for the DVD which includes all the stuff on Enslaved and Immortal that was cut from the theatrical version.

So everyone seems convinced that the fictional version of Lords of Chaos is going to be awful. Why exactly? Sion Sono is a really good director. Is it just cuz Twilight dude is in it?

Is fictional the right word there? The non-doc version of Lords of Chaos (that implies there is a doc, doesn't it?)

I'm going to talk shit on it until it comes out. Then I'm going to go see it. :)

idk who sion sono is but i know the kid playin varg looks like a faygelah

i think the documentary on juggalos might be more interesting?

More interesting than a documentary about the Insane Clown Posse, sure.

i'm about as sick of hearing about black metal as i am michael jackson.

black metal is the new glam!

:)

Wow someone as annoying than cankles. Whodathunkit?

It's seriously only playing this weekend?? That's it??

I think they are doing one show in each market in order to say that it's been a 100% sell-out. There was only one show in Portland and this town eats up anything related to black metal. I mean--Carrie Brownstein came to see it for crying out loud!

Good that they spoke to Immortal, whose reputation rests purely on great records and outrageous imagery, shame they get relegated to being a DVD extra for not having killed anyone.

Norwegian 2nd wave bands didn't play live all that much

Okay I don't get where this film busts any "Lords of Chaos" myths (maybe I'm misremembering LoC, but I thought it made it pretty clear that the sensational press coverage of the burnings/murder was just sensational press and that these guys' motivations--whatever they really were/are and I don't think the movie does much to clear anything up except to make it plain that Varg is basically batshit crazy--they didn't have much to do with "satanism".) It's an interesting enough film (I think Fenriz is a good choice for a central figure actually--cuz he contrasts well with Varg and Frost) although it seems a poor place to start for someone who doesn't know much of the backstory.

"meh"

tried to see this tonight, sold out

why isn't this playing in ny? weird.

oooh, music by black dice & boards of canada!

I left the theatre more confused than I was before entering -- not only about black metal, but also about art and how people get funding for their projects.

lol, how very DIY carrie.

oooh, music by black dice & boards of canada!

tell me this isn't actually true

along with MUM, yes.

and a heap of black metal, but black dice & boards of canada are given prominent mention on the official site for the film.

I apologize for anything I might have ever done that in any tiny way contributed to fucking indie bands soundtracking a movie about black metal

I say this as an indie dude who likes metal, seriously wtf is this shit

it's like if there was an early hip hop movie and the soundtrack was the fucking m0untain g0ats

boycott this crap

Without thinking hard enough to be more specific it seems pretty evident to me that you could pick out some BM, or bits of BM tracks, that would serve the same function and generate the same ~~~atmosphere~~~ as I assume Boards and Black Dice are there to do

or you could hire Jester from ...and Oceans, who composes awesome film music and has an actual connection to metal & knows his history, or you could hire Karl Sanders from Nile who does great atmospheric stuff, or you could ask any of the several dozen Norwegian BM dudes who have ambient/techno side projects

or you could just be a poseur and hire some indie guys

everybody who gets lols from J0hn D. when he's pissed, pls visit this thread for maximum lols because this shit pisses me off

you hardly notice it man. i didn't. this is a fine movie that made me want to stop listening to immortal.

and yes, it made me listen to black dice instead.

yeah notice it or not it is posing. fuck this movie, hold out for the coltrane biopic with music by the decemberists.

how bout the no wave documentary with music by the yeah yeah yeahs ... oh wait.

Well they do point out in the film that Fenriz and Euronymous are (were) both big electronica fans.

I thought it was odd on the first viewing. Didn't bother me on the second.

It bothered me on the first viewing. It meant that there was less actual metal in this tenous, brittle, pathetic documentary. If you are interested in the controversy surrounding burning churches or in watching Fenriz ride the train, this is your documentary. If you are interested in hearing how the records were recorded, what shows they played, how their ideas coalesced, who cared, not to mention why this scene happened where it did - this is a total wash. The best part was when Varg was discussing the recording of the first Burzum record.

i guess its just an expectations game--i was coming to this to find out more about the ~~scene~~, something that would fill in the gaps of the myths i'd half-heard on the internet without first having to read and form a thirdhand opinion on the accuracy of lords of chaos, and it gave me that.

If you are interested in hearing how the records were recorded, what shows they played, how their ideas coalesced, who cared, not to mention why this scene happened where it did [...]

Hoos though the scene is not the mythos - the church burnings, the infighting, the murder. That's, like, the part of the scene that appeals from a tabloid sense. The murder of Biggie is not the story of hip hop in the nineties. You know?

^^ you could probably write a whole book (or at least maybe a long ILM thread) unpacking that statement about biggie

^^ you could probably write a whole book (or at least maybe a long ILM thread) unpacking that statement about biggie

lol if you were really desperate for something to do, you could, I guess - the point is, if all you know about hip hop in the nineties is "there were people killing each other," then you're sort of missing most/all of the point, which is also the case with Norwegian black metal - if your focus is on church burnings & a couple of murders, then you're focusing on admittedly sensational stories that are still only a small part of the bigger picture

yeah but the mythology of dead hip hop stars is a pretty big deal to a lot of hip hop listeners - ask any californian 15-18 year old kid with pictures of tupac and mac dre on their binders (or any kid with a picture of jimi hendrix on his binder)

i'm not saying it isn't major point-missing to focus on that but you can't deny that a big subset of hip hop listeners buys into that point-missing, and i wonder how much of that is true in black metal, too (i know nothing about black metal btw)

yeah that's what I'm saying - this canonization/hero-worship post-death (not specific to any genre imo - writers, athletes, any public figure gets a cult-of-death to some extent or other vide images of Cobain, "Kurt Was Murdered," etc) strikes me as weird, and since most black metal listeners do not believe that Euronymous is now part of that Great Black Metal Band In the Sky, it's even weirder & distasteful to me to focus on THE STORY OF THE MURDER as the big story - necessarily, there aren't any black metal saints, though outsiders are always looking for martyr/persecuted victim/hero-villain storylines when a big part of the whole point is shit ain't like that. (though: a lot of the aryan-focused metal dudes are into the idea of "heroic" actions, etc., because they are saddoes.)

(So what I'm saying: the real story of black metal as told by black metal dudes isn't going to be THIS INCREDIBLE AND WILD STORY OF BURNING CHURCHES & MURDER - that's one story, a good one, but just one. that is only THE story if you think indie rock is a good soundtrack to a black metal movie. btw my unreleased soundtrack for Notorious hits stores Tuesday, everybody cop that, thanks)

Young men get crazy and do fucked up shit all the time. There would be no story at all without the music.

It's a nice summary for the kids but if like me (and John?) already saw the exact same story covered from the exact same angle in the newspapers fifteen years ago the word 'lazy' comes to mind. I'd much rather hear Eirik Hundvin talk about the amazing string of records he had the chance to produce.

Siegbran, what's your opinion on "Once upon a time in Norway"?

since most black metal listeners do not believe that Euronymous is now part of that Great Black Metal Band In the Sky ... necessarily, there aren't any black metal saints

so why is this? how is black metal different from other genres? i remember a lot of cliff burton worship back in the late 80s / early 90s when i was a preteen metalhead, is the same not true of euronymous?

so why is this? how is black metal different from other genres? i remember a lot of cliff burton worship back in the late 80s / early 90s when i was a preteen metalhead, is the same not true of euronymous?

not as far as I know - a lot of people say Euronymous was a traitor, got what he deserved, etc, or they used to, though I'd guess most of these people are posing - my assumption is that within the very insular scene, the feeling was "this is terrible."

couple things here, though. for one, you know, while Metallica listeners weren't born-agains, they were rock listeners very much in the hero-worhip mode of listening - looking for somebody whose shredding rules over everybody else's, barrier between audience and band very pronounced, for somebody to idolize. I wasn't in Norway but my understanding is that the early scene as it developed was very much in the "we are playing to people who're already in the scene" mode - and it wasn't about getting big & famous (though for some it was! sticking point there), it was about cultivating a very exclusive subculture & keeping it, loaded word here, "pure." so some of the hero dynamic, while not absent, is different - there's a resistance to it.

the other thing is the aggressive atheism of the genre (also Odinism, but I wonder how many black metal dudes who talk about Odinism really believe in it as anything other than a useful collection of archetypal concepts) - if there's one thing black metal listeners are in general agreement about, it's that there's no God. A lot follows from that, and one thing is that thinking "he's gone to a better place" after somebody dies is just bullshit. Which changes the whole dynamic of responding to death, vide the Dawn of the Black Hearts cover (a portrait of Per Ohlin aka Dead just after he'd blown out his brains; he is the singer on the album).

I bumped into Carrie Brownstein on the street last night and she thanked me for offering my dissenting comment on NPR. Ha.

my understanding is that the early scene as it developed was very much in the "we are playing to people who're already in the scene" mode - and it wasn't about getting big & famous (though for some it was! sticking point there), it was about cultivating a very exclusive subculture & keeping it, loaded word here, "pure." so some of the hero dynamic, while not absent, is different

sounds kind of like the scene around 80s/90s hardcore? like if anybody'd OD'd the vibe would be "what an idiot" rather than "what a tragic hero"?

seems that way to me, yeah, though Siegbran is closer to the actual scene than me & can say whether I'm just reporting how it seems from my distant view

Saw this. It's true. The music is there, but it doesn't grate. It actually works, if you can believe that.

Isn't this a bit late for a trailer?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgdAVFI3hvM

Ah, "at select theaters from Nov 20th"

burzum track does sound pretty badass in that trailer, tho.

Really wanna see this. Not a huge BM fan (Death Metal's more my thing), but the scene is undeniably fascinating.

dudes, i'm there.

If you can't wait, the whole of the documentary "Once upon a time in Norway" is up on youtube in segments. Covers the same period, and seems to do it pretty well IMHO.

I was surprised by how Vikernes came across in this. I was expecting someone way more (obviously) weird and intense, instead he was affable, erudite and relaxed. They really didn't delve too deeply into the uglier side of his ideology, which was perhaps a bit of a cop-out. Fenriz seemed ultra-defensive and a bit of a flake, but basically an ok guy. Frost was just weird.

Also that artist bloke was a dickhead.

Didn't really like this. Thought Varg came off surprisingly thoughtful and eloquent (he's easily the most coherent interviewee in the entire film), thought Fenriz seemed like the only one I'd want to hang out with for even five minutes, and, yep, I agree, Frost is just weird. A lot of time wasted on the artist and all the gallery scenes - pointless. HATED the intrusive indie rock. Baffling.

The Enslaved and Immortal 'bonus features' do not exist, by the way just some lighthearted outtakes and an 'alternate ending' that's not worth watching.

I hung out with the director of this film a year or so ago, and he was really cool and nice, but knew shockingly little about BM beyond the Norwegian stuff.

Worth a Netflix rental, though. I guess.

"Thought Varg came off surprisingly thoughtful and eloquent (he's easily the most coherent interviewee in the entire film)"

Seriously didn't see this at all. He seemed completely incoherent (esp. when discussing Euronymous' murder where his justifications are hilarious) and unhinged. I think he wishes now he could find some huge overarching anti-capitalist/anti-Christian theme to his actions, but the truth is something a little closer to the sensational media accounts of 92-93 (a bunch of bored kids with easy lives interested in shock value).

I'd agree with thoughtful and eloquent to some extent, like you I wouldn't agree with coherent. What surprised me is how he seems kind of relaxed and jovial.

Haha the prison seemed really nice! I wouldn't be too upset about spending time there.

Is Sion Sono's adaptation still happening? I haven't heard anything since Rathbone pulled out. The topic seems quite a good match for Sono's obsessions (at least some of them).

I don't think there has any been news since '09.

I think he wishes now he could find some huge overarching anti-capitalist/anti-Christian theme to his actions, but the truth is something a little closer to the sensational media accounts of 92-93 (a bunch of bored kids with easy lives interested in shock value).

― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, January 17, 2011 3:41 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

this is precisely the point i thought the movie was making

this is on Netflix Watch Instantly.

watched it on Netflix Watch Instantly.

god, the useless scenes with that artist just go on and on

otm but i want the framed print of this that was hanging in the gallery:
http://www.thestranger.com/images/blogimages/2009/06/05/1244243518-death.jpg

not bad but it kind of felt like "by the numbers." varg seemed insane, frost was weird to say the least (there's this shot on a plane w/a terrified kid sitting next to him which is hilarious), fenriz seems like a decent dude, hellhammer comes across as an incredible piece of shit to put it mildly.

Heard a rumour that Fenriz lives with his mum and is a postman, which if true the doc does a very good job of skirting round.

That makes me like him even more

Uh he works at a post office, that's true I'm pretty sure. Pretty widely known, I thought.

Yeah, I've seen it mentioned in interviews a bunch of times.

i can see footage of him in a post office fitting in w/ the rest of this doc-- bummer they didnt go that route

its so weird to me that ppl keep goin on about how 'weird' frost is

i felt like frost's studied/fake "weirdness" was being presented as a contrast to the more ""authentic"" insanity of the early 90s dudes, that frost--think of that shot w/him and the terrified kid! the long pretentious scenes of him stabbing couches!--was being satirized throughout

did nobody else get this vibe??

otm

like

varg will stab you!

frost will stab your couch, for a fee!

^^^^ irl lol very hard

Uh he works at a post office, that's true I'm pretty sure. Pretty widely known, I thought.

he talks about it for sure - that Fenriz works for the post office isn't really a big reveal

big hoos definitely otm.

frost on a plane is 100% hilarious.

Watched this last night. Big big laughs at Frost on the plane/his art 'performance' (which might be the most embarrassing thing I've ever seen in a film) and at Varg's cornflakes skit. Fenriz seemed pretty chill.