who has the "worst-managed catalogue" in music history?

inspired by a comment on the beatles remastered thread. who's career is the most effed? if this were a filmmaker i'd say, like, david lynch on dvd, but... MUSIC.

The Fall.

New Order?

ya the fall is pretty bad...

Tuxedomoon

The Kinks.

There's a 10CD boxset of all the 60's albums in 'facsimile' sleeves, based on 'editions' from around europe. And that was for around £30 or so.

Nice for me, not so for anyone actually in the band, I would have thought..

how many Neil Young albums are still out of print? it always kind of appalled me that an artist that major could have OOP studio albums in this day and age.

Kraftwerk up there?

James Brown up until recently.

I believe Time Fades Away and Journey Through the Past are the only two OOP Young albums.
x-post

Full Kraftwerk reissues/remasters coming soon, except for the couple that Hutter has disowned. Neil Young's catalogue is mismanaged cos that's the way he wants it, though, isn't it? Not the fault of bad deals and catastrophic licensing. New Order have been tidied up. But the Fall catalogue remains appallingly treated.

oh ok. still, he's had albums that were OOP for decades, which seems crazy to me. and imo if an artist is mismanaging their catalog that's as bad as if the label were doing so, maybe worse.

sub-question: AND WHY

Tim Buckley's was really bad for a long time (and still is for the post-Elektra albums).

Saint Vitus don't seem to have a lot of luck in this dept

the waitresses in that all of their albums are oop. iirc.

two (2) albums but still.

Desperate Bicycles
(kidding, folks)

But the Fall catalogue remains appallingly treated.

Well between Sanctuary's (mostly) okay job and Beggars Banquet starting to get somewhere with its own share of it, that covers nearly everything from the start to the mid-nineties and sporadically beyond that.

Lots of people who first popped up in the early 60s suffer from this. I'd love to see legit remastered reissues of original albums from people like Dusty Springfield, Del Shannon, etc. (and not just continually repackaged best ofs).

My Bloody Valentine.

two (2) albums but still.

The God Machine. Deleted & that's it.

Marc Almond's solo material keeps going through phases of reissues and repackagings -- he's worked with so many different labels now that it's impossible to a coordinated effort (doesn't help that his alliance with Stevo of Some Bizarre keeps going up and down).

God Machine is OOP? Jeez, I'm glad I hung onto these.

A lot of the Test Dept albums are OOP. I think there's only a couple of albums in print on Some Bizzare, and they are prettily shoddily packaged (as is par for the course with Stevo).

The Coil, Current 93 and Nurse With Wound back catalogues are pretty much all over the place since the demise of World Serpent.

Most of Coil's material is available online (their goal is to have everything there one day) from http://thresholdhouse.greedbag.com/ (scroll down a bit until you see all the cover art)

Robyn Hitchcock. The Soft Boys stuff is 3/4 OOP. 2/3 of the Egyptians recordings (the A&M years) are OOP. At least Yep Roc rescued what they could the last few years.

yeah but I think this thread is pretty much about physical releases. putting everything up for purchase online doesn't really count as managing your back catalogue properly, IMHO. xp

In that case: all catalogues will die out eventually if you only count physical releases, IMHO. LP -> CD -> digital

The Chills win this don't they?

The Chills, god yes. A tragically mismanaged catalogue - that was badly handled at the time (the various different versions of Kaleidoscope World, for example).

Another odd catalogue would be AC/DC's early albums. No attempt to match rest of the world releases to the original Aussie albums - TNT, High Voltage and Dirty Deeds, all of which are different from what we in Europe and America get (the token effort was to round up some missing tracks on to the Jailbreak 74 EP). So we don't get the albums as originally imagined. Also, Cold Hearted Man and Crabsody in Blue have long since disappeared from Powerage and Let There Be Rock respectively. It's not a terribly mismanaged catalogue, but it's odd that there are anomalies in the catalogue of a huge band who emerged long after 60s licensing chaos had ended.

ikea!

this is probably out of date, but i remember never, ever seeing a proper specials album on cd, just loads of not-quite-right-lookin' live albums.

Bob Seger, no contest.

Specials album sare on CD, and there's a spiffing 3CD collection of singles, Bs, and rareties too.

In a way, The Moles. How hard can it be to just release everything by a band that basically had one album and a couple of singles? One package, include every official release (vinyl and CD and tape) + whatever demos there might be. Couldn't be more than 3CDs worth of stuff.

I'm grateful for Flydaddy's effort...the Wishing Tree thing is just a mess, even if I'm glad to have it.

Disco Inferno.

Todd Tamanend Clark's discography is a mess

Kim Fowley

Chic!!!!!

Oh yeah, Kim Fowley. Jesus! If anyone ever needed a box set with booklet to explain everything, it's him. FWIW, his best albums *are* available digitally, but that's it.

All of this makes more sense with movies.

What kind of movies?

Bob Seger, no contest.

I'd second that, I still remember first reading xhuxk talking about those early singles and me "WTF, how come I've never heard of these...and how come I can't find them?"

xpost

Assuming you're being serious, all kinds. 90% of silent cinema just for starters.

xp Forget CD -- Most of the best music Seger made was never even compiled or reissued on vinyl. Never. And he's a somewhat bigger name than, say, Todd Tamenend Clark (or most of the other names on this thread). I really don't know who else you can compare his situation with -- By now, there are all sorts of artists from the '20s and '30s whose catalouge is easier to track down than Seger's.

xhuxk otm---it's a pity when youtube is one of the best Seger sources.

Among R&B artists, Ray Parker Jr.'s catalog is nowhere to be found. There are some Commodores ones from the 70's that you can buy on Itunes, but aren't available on CD.
As for Country artists, there are a lot of Charley Pride's 60's and 70's stuff that's not available. And I'd add Loretta Lynn as well. Also, I've been looking for Roger Miller's 60's albums for years and have found nothing.

xpost to me

Along those lines, I guess we could also add Ada Jones, Nora Bayes, Cliff Edwards, Lee Sims, the like. If there's a well-selected Paul Whiteman box out there, I want to know about it.

Les Rallizes Denudes

Psychic TV

Zoviet France

Mekons

Seriously, what is up with The Mekons back catalogue???

The Spacemen 3 catalog is pretty bad: re-released 100 different times on 100 different labels, some of which are total crap quality-wise & all of which seem to be perpetually out of print.

i guess to clarify i should add

NIC JONES - all his original LPs, save for "penguin eggs" (the last), are OOP. he should be up there with bert jansch, shirley collins, et al in the pantheon of late british folk revivalists. but his stuff, again save the one LP, is hard to find. or was, before the invent of album blogs.

Ok, I'll ask: Why doesn't Bob Seger want to reissue his early singles?

^ I don't know, but I would like to mention that three of his earliest singles dating from 1966-67 can be found on the Cameo-Parkway boxed set that's still in print.

has anyone heard/seen the CD issuing of spacemen 3's "perfect prescription" by taang? one of the best albums of the 80s just haphazardly reissued.

In '95 I bought the Genius Records issue and it sounds HORRIBLE. I never heard the Taang release (used to see it in shops all the time) but it couldn't possibly sound worse than the Genius pressing. However, the "Forged Prescriptions" release on Space Age is excellent.

It's not like is catalogue is huge, but I don't think there's ever been an extensive compilation/box set of Derrick May's output.

Techno is in a totally different category and probably doesn't fit into this discussion ... I mean, most artists record under many different aliases for a bunch different labels, so the chances of seeing any sort of comprehensive collection by any major techno artist is virtually nil.

Rick Wakeman.

may not be cool or anything, but his classic era albums on A&M have been dreadfully represented.
with the best album, "No Earthly Connection", having never made it onto cd (except for a limited expensive japanese edition from years ago).

La Monte Young. Holding on to the tapes of the stuff he did with John Cale and Tony Conrad, refuses to issue them although his claim to be the composer of this material is arguable at best. A few insanely rare and expensive OOP things and that's it. I think the problem is that he doesn't trust anyone to issue the music to his own exacting standards.

New Order have been tidied up.

Whaaat? They’re a complete shambles

All their albums are in print, and several got the expanded/remastered treatment a few months ago - that's hardly a shambles. Substance is still there for all the singles and B-sides through to True Faith. Only thing that's missing would be a comp of every version of every single, but that's true of more or less everyone who ever employed a remixer.

JONATHAN RICHMAN -- a surprising number of LPs out of print, in inferior versions, etc. discography a bit of a mess.

Someone who's not helped by the baffling variety of labels he's recorded for. Criminal that Jonathan Sings! and Rockin' and Romance are out of print, especially given that they came out in the UK on Rough Trade, so it's not like there aren't people who know where the tapes are etc. I believe some RT staffers periodically nag Geoff Travis about putting them out again, but nothing ever happens.

The New Order extended remasters had SERIOUSLY fucked up 2nd discs; Rhino have offered a retraction / replacement scheme I believe.

The New Order extended remasters had SERIOUSLY fucked up 2nd discs; Rhino have offered a retraction / replacement scheme I believe.

I stand corrected. Haven't heard them - the only NO freak I know was delighted by his (promo) copies. But the fact they're being replaced at least suggests any shambles is being addressed.

Fucked up as in they didn't play properly? I think my promos were all fine as well

Spacemen 3 albums are currently being reissued in gatefold digipaks by Fire Records; I've see 3 so far.

Xpost. Richman's "Rockin' and Romance" is technically in print. See old Feelies threads for a similar situation (recently rectified). Anyway, Twin/Tone has it.

The New Order 2nd CDs played properly but weren't remastered; they were needle-drops (with attendant fuzz etc) of a fan's copy of the vinyl, or something. I don't know the exact details cos I'm not a fan especially, but I do know that Todd H (former Stylus dude) is a BIG fan and a BIG record collector in general and he was incensed.

Richman's "Rockin' and Romance" is technically in print. See old Feelies threads for a similar situation (recently rectified). Anyway, Twin/Tone has it.
Amazon.com has one secondhand copy for sale from an external seller. Sounds like it's passed out of print again.

Re: New Order, to anyone who's not seen it yet, fans have taken the matters into their own very capable hands:

http://neworder-recycle.blogspot.com/

@ Matt#2
are you familiar with this one? not sure if it has the electronic music (don't own this myself) http://www.shogakukan.co.jp/takemitsu/

I agree that Takemitsu's music is hard to find, but that goes for a lot of classical 20th century music (Morton Feldman, Isang Yun).

Techno is in a totally different category and probably doesn't fit into this discussion ... I mean, most artists record under many different aliases for a bunch different labels, so the chances of seeing any sort of comprehensive collection by any major techno artist is virtually nil.

But R&S/Transmat did manage to put all of Derrick May's classic tunes on Innovator, it's just that some of them are edited or cut up. All I'm asking for is a 3 CD version of Innovator which would have all the tunes in their 12" versions. (I suspect May himself was the one behind the format of Innovator; why would his label cut "Emanon" into two parts for the compilation?)

xpost on the Richman Rockin' & Romance thing. It's the same deal as the Feelies stuff (though that's finally been issued on regular CD): Twin/Tone sells custom burned CDs (made from the master tapes) of the album, without artwork. I got one a few years ago and it sounds wonderful. You have to buy from the Twin/Tone website. So it's at least available, albeit without artwork.

This is still the only way to get the Yung Wu album (that I know of).

The New Order 2nd CDs played properly but weren't remastered; they were needle-drops (with attendant fuzz etc) of a fan's copy of the vinyl, or something. I don't know the exact details cos I'm not a fan especially, but I do know that Todd H (former Stylus dude) is a BIG fan and a BIG record collector in general and he was incensed.

also the track selection was str8 bullshit, and also also Substance is only "still there for all the singles and B-sides through to True Faith" if you want new edits, not the original tracks, and you count "being out of print for fifteen years" as "being in print."

Substance has never been out of print in the UK.

But R&S/Transmat did manage to put all of Derrick May's classic tunes on Innovator, it's just that some of them are edited or cut up.

Derrick May is an exception though -- his catalogue isn't so large, and he didn't put out records on too many labels (mainly his own). So, putting together a comprehensive compilation is relatively straightforward.

Agreed about "Innovator"'s shortcomings, though.

Bob Seger regarding his Back in '72 LP, released in '73 and OOP ever since, practically:

"Back In '72 has a couple of decent songs on it, but the mix is so awful. One of these days I'm going to get some time, and I'd like to sing some of those songs again. I thought I sang some of those so terrible."

except that his voice is totally shot now!

Innovator is weird. I was hoping for something that would excite me the way Relics did (even if you remove the non-May stuff from Relics) and somehow the editing and flow just seemed off somehow.

CCR. New remasters are great, but there have been way too many compilations etc. before that.

Otherwise, until recently, Neil Young might have been the correct answer here.

"(But right, it's Bob's own choice.)"

i think it was a cameo/parkway/allen klein thing. maybe now that klein is dead all that stuff will come out. but, like someone mentioned, some of it did appear on the cameo/parkway boxed set. and the 66-67 singles cd boot is still not that hard to find. i know, it's a boot, but still...

How about Herbie Hancock? One of the biggest jazz names of the past 30-40 years, and yet, most of his work from the second half of the 70s is very hard to find.

any SST band that hasn't wrangled it's masters back from Ginn

I also agree very much regarding Motown. First, during the first 10 years of the CD age, most of their 60s catalogue sounded really horrible, with lots of clipping. Around the mid 90s, we would finally get new mixes without clipping, and the compilations have gotten better and better. Some may also like how they are consistent in making their collections either all stereo or all mono, so that you can take your pick of which compilation/box to choose, regarding on whether you prefer mono or stereo.

But then, what is really horrible is the way they manage their albums catalogue. Surely most big acts' albums have been available at some point, but they also tend to get quickly deleted. Even big names like Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson and Marvin Gaye have big holes in their back catalogues. And as for getting hold of recent, non-deleted, CD versions of complete album back catalogues (let alone any albums at all) by more recent acts like DeBarge or The Commodores? Forget it!
I know Motown were a horrible album label for a long time, and I think just about every single Motown album release from before "What's Going On" is horribly patchy. But the highs are so great those albums are worth it anyway, and at least they should be able. Plus albums from the 70s onwards definitely should.

And... SOS Band anyone?

xpost good one re SST

just noticed at amoeba today that there are a few Smiths records, on nice vinyl, w/stickers that say remastered by Marr. wish i had a spare $25 for TQID, dammit

remarrstered

xp Scott, I hope you're right about the Cameo/Parkway stuff, but some of the post-Cameo stuff (Noah, Brand New Morning, Back In '72, etc) is just as hard to find. The only pre-Beatiful Loser LP that's in print is Smokin OPs, I think. And again, there's never been a legit vinyl or CD comp of the singles from those records or the Cameo singles (despite those three stray tracks on the Cameo box.) But yeah, I'm aware a couple CD boots exist. Just seems like, with any other artist anywhere near Seger's stature, there would have been a definitive compilation of that era of his career by now, if not his entire career. What other artists that big do you have to rely on bootlegs or label boxes just to get a smattering of major songs?

i think the early capitol stuff is the stuff that bob has said he wasn't that happy with. noah was apparently a really bad experience for him. but it is weird that capitol hasn't, uh, capitalized on all that catalog material. post-night moves they did flood the market with cheap vinyl reissues of mongrel and ramblin' gamblin' man and others, but that was a long long time ago. i would think it would be their call and not his. but who knows?

swans seems to have been going oop lately

sometimes I think every album ever made will be on CD before the early live skull albums get rereleased

I think just about every single Motown album release from before "What's Going On" is horribly patchy.

there are a few gems. "the temptations sing smokey" or the four tops' "reach out" LPs are pretty spotless. there are album-only tracks on those that are as good as anything released on singles

but yes in general they are full of filler.

a TON of motown LPs came out on two-fer CDs a few years back. most are still available as UK imports. that said, you're right, they are all from the glory days i.e. 1964-71, and good luck finding much later than that save for the obvious stevie wonder, marvin gaye, diana ross LPs.

non-obvious motown stuff that was good to great after 1971: willie hutch, dynamic superiors, david ruffin, stephanie mills, mandre, platinum hook, thelma houston, ozone, and, probably some other stuff, but it's late and i gotta go to bed.

The Four Season's The Night on MoWest

xpost to Scott: The Undisputed Truth too! (Dunno if they spent their entire career at Motown, tho...)

More on the Seger thing: Even the old albums that DID briefly exist as CD reissues (Ramblin' Gamblin' Man, Mongrel) vanished quickly and have been unavailable forever. And to single out Smokin' OPs, of all albums, as the one deemed worthy of the remaster/reissue treatment (which they did in '05) is just o_O

The Undisputed Truth is a good answer. I think Face to Face with the Truth is the only album of theirs that's ever been reissued. It looks like not even their first titular album has ever been reissued, even though it was by far their biggest seller.

BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN - again, no remasters. this is the boss's own fault, i suspect, since in general sony is quite happy to take a few dips into the well (cf. byrds catalog, dylan).

There's actually been some remastering (Essential, the box set version of Born To Run), and supposedly Darkness On The Edge of Town is coming (in a box) for X-mas this year. The funny thing is the man himself noted in the liners for Essential that he was glad the music had finally been remastered.

Another frustrating case is Doug Sahm, who had that problem of having basically recorded for everybody. There has been some quality reissues (Beat Rocket and Evangeline's SDQ titles), but just as often there's been good stuff tossed off as limited editions (via Hip-O Select and the long OOP Rhino Handmade "Atlantic Sessions" set) or simply not/barely available at all (nearly every thing else).

Doug Sahm & Band was out on Collector's Choice recently.

The Undisputed Truth is an excellent example of the kind of problem this thread is about.

well, hell, is ANY dynamic superiors album in print??? one of the best of the forgotten soul bands in my opinion. and one of the great lead singers too. and one of the only VERY openly gay soul singers of that era as well. ashford & simpson wrote and produced a lot of their good stuff. i mean, i can always listen to old vinyl, but more people should hear their records.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXyARUWKkF8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2CNVBP5FpY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDZaUH27Rk

Speaking of SST and recording for a lot of different labels, a coherent remastering of Black Dots, Bad Brains, Rock for Light, I Against I and Quickness could be awesome. Even add some contemporary louderizaton.

Doug Sahm & Band was out on Collector's Choice recently

Yes, as was his other Atlantic lp Texas Tornado. Both titles appear sans bonus tracks (there's about another album worth of quality outtakes from the Atlantic years) that are only available on the Rhino Handmade box, plus a further four songs that are exclusive to Rhino's OOP best of set.