Taking Sides : Depeche Mode or the Human League

Both utterly fantastic -- but! The League *were* great whereas Depeche *are* great. I have just about every single for a reason, if not every remix. In contrast I stopped paying attention to the Human League after the mid-eighties, but heavens are all those first albums -- both before and after the Heaven 17 split -- just wonderful. Strange and murky first two albums, strange and poppy after that. Viva Jo Callis! From the Rezillos to the Human League, that was an interesting five years.

But ultimately, Depeche Depeche Depeche. And Depeche again. And I don't care who knows it. Listened to _Ultra_ last night and reminded myself what a freakin' amazing album it is.

The League win this one hands down for me, for effortless pop greatness. Both versions of HL seemed like a bunch of mates who had rented a bunch of equipment and hit the local 8-track studio for the day, only to stumble on the secret of pop genius.

DM are fine, if not a little stadium rock these days, but have never done anything as monumental as "Being Boiled", "Open Your Heart", "Love Action" or "Sound of the Crowd". The opening notes of any of these can reduce me to tears of joy in a second. Actually they almost verge on good candidates for Robin's earlier thread about music too painful to listen to anymore (or something like that). Of course I mean it in a good way. Brings back some fantastic times, and some regrets. Sniff.

The intro to "Love Action" is indeed classic in itself, bringing on feelings of excitement and thrill and, yes, period innocence. The Human League 78-83 are close to being my *ideal* pop group, in their every move.

Depeche Mode have made some worthwhile records but, especially in later years, there's been an aura of worthiness and seriousness which has put me off. At the other end of their career, I always thought "Just Can't Get Enough" was no better than any other lesser synthpop jingle.

Just wait until _Exciter_ comes out, you doubters... :)

The idea that someone in the world has a band's "every single for a reason" kinda implies that just about every band in the world is pretty great, no ? ;)

Anyway, Depeche Mode. They were my favorite group when I was 13, and the Human League was never my favorite anything, though maybe "Fascination" and "The Lebanon" came close to being my favorite songs when I was about 12.

Everything I've heard since Violator reeks tunelessly, though.

I was in a band a long while ago....and the guitarist did an intro tape - we said put something heavy on before we come on - he put on the heaviest thing in his collection - 'Lebanon' - yeah you heard right - the guitarist - oh how the indie-kids sneered.

tONY HAS PLAYED HIS TRUMP CARD - chart hits '81 - the league win 5-3

Then Patrick, you need to relisten. Oh yes.

Like Robin I love the Human League. And apart from one or two singles (like 'New Life') from the Vince Clark era, I detest Depeche Mode. There seems to be a total lack of melody there (or at least what seems 'melodic' to me).

Though, aged 9, I found "Enjoy The Silence" as creepy as anything I'd heard, and I'd still defend it for rather sentimental reasons. I suspect if I'd been as old in 1990 as I am now, or if I was hearing it now for the first time, I'd find it quite risible.

DM never had anyone with the melodic sense of Vince Clarke, who has a knack with the very simplistic, childlike instantly-recognisable chord sequence (which is what the success of Erasure was built on).

Or rather they never had anyone with that melodic sense after Clarke left :).

DM was my favourite band all throughout highschool so I have a real soft spot for them. They always have had a uniqueness about them. Every time I hear a song like 'Never Let Me Down' now, I'm always blown away by how different it is. How a song that sounds so dark, can somehow seem to soar at the same time. Like nothing else I know of. Billy Corgan, the only example I can think of, possibly was making an attempt to capture that same mood in some of the Pumpkins songs, but he fails miserably. And the Human League? I think I've only heard a handful of tunes, so can't fairly comment.

depeche mode. (only up to, and including, enjoy the silence though)

although i have to admit i've never really heard human league (i'm actually quite embarrassed by this)

depeche mode are unknowingly silly. depeche mode are cod-serious. but, somehow the silly/serious mix makes them really rather good. this doesn't hold after early 90s when they became too rock.

everything counts, never let me down again, most all the 80s stuff is just really good. have to disagree with robin over the melody thing as well, surely tunes aplenty, no?

one of those groups i'm surprised i like, but a very good group nonetheless

Human League all the way. Depeche Mode, while they've produced a few cracking pop singles, have never put out anything that compares with "Dare". "Don't You Want Me" is one of those pop singles like "Tainted Love" or "Dancing Queen" that seems to never ever wear out.

And sonically there's nothing DM's production team have achieved to compare with the brutalist synth fizz of the pre-charts League.

Then in terms of image, the League's Jam/Lewis period is a bit embarrassing but nowhere near as bad as Depeche swallowing the rock star thing whole. Phil Oakey seems a good bloke, too, and still charismatic in that uptight ordinary way as "First Man In Space" demonstrates. All the Mode's antics strike me as ongoing attempts to overcompensate for a lack of charisma and a general gormlessness.

yes DM were very gormless indeed, but part of their (80s) charm. the rock iconography thing later on was (and is) very cringeworthy.

as for jam/lewis. i don't know human leagues collaboration with them, but you can't knock the work that they did on Change's Change of Heart single, although the album was admittedly rather duff

Oh, no problem at all with Jam/Lewis but the League's appeal was partly their stiff unfunkiness in an era of highly variable popfunk (back projecting here - at the time I just thought the synths were cool) and to suddenly discover their funky side with J & L was a bit inappropriate, particularly since the results (yes, even "Human") were duff.

Gareth: "Everything Counts" is actually one of the few DM tracks I *do* like.

But the Human League were *always* very funky..

I find it very unfair and wrong to say that the following songs aren't melodic: My Secret Garden
See You
The Meaning of Love
Love, In Itself
Pipeline
Two Minute Warning
The Landscape Is Changing
Told You So
And Then...
Stories Of Old
Somebody
Shake The Disease
A Question Of Lust
Sometimes
World Full Of Nothing
Dressed In Black
But Not Tonight
Strangelove
Sacred
I Want You Now
Halo
Waiting For The Night
I Feel You
Mercy In You
One Caress
Higher Love
The Love Thieves
Home
It's No Good
Sister of Night
Freestate
I strongly recommend breaking out that old copy of _Construction Time Again_ as well as giving the post-_Violator_ stuff another chance.

What Dan said. Y'all are scoffers. Besides, dare I say it, I think most people here are getting off on the nostalgia of youth and its accompanying warm glow rather than considering something that has kept going. Not that I can't be guilty of same. ;-)

David: I *think* Tom means that the Human League didn't sound like Freeez or early Level 42.

David: I *think* Tom means that the Human League didn't sound like Freeez or early Level 42. (Robin)

Yes, but just because it wasn't jazz-funk doesn't mean it wasn't funky. I think I'm right in saying the "Dare" album had a huge influence on the burgeoning hip hop/electro scene in NY.

A thought: might "Dare" have been perceived as "so stiff it's funky", as Kraftwerk were?

This weekend I dusted down the Human League Best Of and discovered that "Mirror Man" and "Keep Feeling Fascination" have the same "instant tears of joy" effect as the tracks I mentioned earlier in the thread. I'd forgotten just how spine chillingly great they were (funky or not).

They are two other wonders. Not that you can ever really go wrong with the League from 78-83.

Here's a question, then - the difference between "funky" and "danceable". I think "funky" applied to anything other than funk music should be in the 'use other words please' - applied to anything other than *music* (i.e. a t-shirt, a club, a bar) it should be a pistol-whipping offence.

Ned, I am so very aware of Depeche Mode as a going concern. Their performance of "Dream On" on CD:UK was one of the lowlights of my year so far.

Here's a question, then - the difference between "funky" and "danceable". (Tom)

I think 'funky', when applied to music, still has a fairly clear meaning. It's related to the types of rhythmic syncopations found in 'funk'. Therefore it would still make sense to say that the Rolling Stones (for example) could be quite funky (even though they didn't fall under the overall genre of 'funk'). In the case of the Human League a lot of their beats and bass-lines were *intended* to sound like (electronic) funk (I'm referring mainly to the "Dare" period - I'm not so familiar with the earlier stuff). The result was obviously a far cry from James Brown or Parliament, but I don't think they were *trying* to be stiff.

'Danceable' just relates to whether something is good for dancing, not to any particular rhythm or style of music.

Tom, "funky" has been around since 1899 to describe something that smells awful. :)

and Depeche Mode may have been good in 1989, but that doesn't mean they're good in 2001. (emoticon-symbol-gesture)

"in a funk" meaning "in a mess" turns up in old British public school stories, as well.

Listening to "(Keep Feeling) Fascination" I'm struck by the liquid funkiness and possible early hip-hop influence of the instrumental break, which I didn't remember from previous listens.

However, "The Sound Of The Crowd" sounds to me now like goosestep-pop to rival Spandau Ballet's "Musclebound". Am I the only one who finds the League's Top 20 breakthrough hit somewhat disturbing (but in a good way), as though Phil's urging everyone to "get in line now" and you are an inferior species if you don't? And is it an urban myth or does it genuinely fade to a sample of the Nuremberg rally, as I remember Taylor Parkes suggesting?

Again, I say "Wait until _Exciter_ comes out." It's a great album.

I find it interesting that people decided that Depeche Mode was no longer "relevant" when they really started playing around with their music.