"The Best Five Album Runs BEFORE TIME BEGAN" (Jazz poll voting thread VOTE HERE)

OK, voting time. Pick three in order of preference. Your votes will be weighted, 1st = 5 points, 2nd = 3, 3rd = 1. Send ballots to my ILX webmail.

also, some dates would be appreciated for a few of the things here, as discussed on the nomination thread the discographies are usually confusing.

previous thread for reference:

"The Best Five Album Runs BEFORE TIME BEGAN" (Jazz artist nomination thread)

AND OUR NOMINEES ARE...

1. Alice Coltrane:

A Monastic Trio 1968
Huntington Ashram Monastery 1969
Journey In Satchidananda 1970
Ptah, The El Daoud 1971
Universal Consciousness 1971

2. an early Bill Evans run:

Portrait in Jazz,
Explorations,
Sunday at the Village Vanguard,
Waltz for Debby,
How My Heart Sings!

3. Albert Ayler –

Spiritual Unity,
New York Eye and Ear Control,
Bells,
Spirits Rejoice,
In Greenwich Village

4. for Miles:

E.S.P (1965)
Miles Smiles (1966)
Sorcerer (1967)
Nefertiti (1967)
Miles in the Sky (1968)

5. for Coltrane, maybe:

John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman (1963)
Impressions (1963)
Live at Birdland (1964)
Crescent (1964)
A Love Supreme (1965)

6. Cookin' with the Miles Davis Quintet (1956)
Relaxin' with the Miles Davis Quintet (1956)
Workin' with the Miles Davis Quintet (1956)
Steamin' with the Miles Davis Quintet (1956)
'Round About Midnight (1955-1956)

7. Dave Holland Quintet/Big Band:

2000 - Prime Directive - ECM
2001 - Not for Nothin' - ECM
2002 - What Goes Around - ECM
2003 - Extended Play: Live at Birdland - ECM
2005 - Overtime - Dare2

8. Ornette Coleman's 1st run:

Something Else!!!! (1958)
Tomorrow Is the Question! (1959)
The Shape of Jazz to Come (1959)
Change of the Century (1959)
This Is Our Music (1960)

9. Herbie Hancock:

Mwandishi (1971)
Crossings (1972)
Sextant (1973)
Head Hunters (1973)
Thrust (1974)

10. Sonny Rollins:

Moving Out (1954)
Work Time (1955)
Saxophone Colossus (1956)
Sonny Rollins Plus Four (1956; the "four" are the other members of the Clifford Brown/Max Roach Quintet)
Tenor Madness (1956)

11. hard to pick a run w/Monk, and i could easily pick 10 more by the man:

Brilliant Corners
Thelonious Himself
Monk with Coltrane
Blakey's Jazz Messengers w/Thelonious Monk
Monk's Music

12. Mingus

Town Hall Concert (1962, Blue Note)
Oh Yeah (1962, Atlantic)
Tijuana Moods (1962, RCA)
The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady (1963, Impulse!)
Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus (1963, Impulse!)

13. Sun Ra:

# 1965 – The Heliocentric Worlds of Sun Ra, Volume One by Sun Ra
# 1965 – The Magic City by Sun Ra and his Solar Arkestra
# 1965 – The Heliocentric Worlds of Sun Ra, Volume Two by Sun Ra
# 1966 – Nothing Is by Sun Ra (live)
# 1966 – Strange Strings

14. Wayne Shorter:

Juju,
Speak No Evil,
The All Seeing Eye,
Adam's Apple,
Schizophrenia (all for Blue Note)

15. Archie Shepp -

Fire Music,
On This Night,
Three for a Quarter,
One for a Dime,
Mama Too Tight,
The Magic Of Juju.

16. Duke Ellington: The 61-62 collabs:

* Louis Armstrong & Duke Ellington (Roulette).
* ”Together for the First Time! The Count Meets the Duke”
* Duke Ellington & John Coltrane
* Duke Ellington Meets Coleman Hawkins
* Money Jungle

17. Duke Ellington: the late thematic works:

* The Far East Suite
* Latin American Suite (Fantasy)
* New Orleans Suite (Atlantic)
* The Afro-Eurasian Eclipse (Fantasy)
* Toga Brava Suite (Storyville)

18. Pharoah Sanders -

Izipho Zam,
Karma,
Jewels Of Thought,
Deaf Dumb Blind (Summun Bukmun Umyun),Thembi

19.
# In a Silent Way (1969)
# Bitches Brew (1970)
# A Tribute to Jack Johnson (1970)
# On the Corner (1972)
# Big Fun (1974 - previously unissued recordings from 1969-1972)

20.
Hank Mobley:
Soul Station 1960
Roll Call 1960
Workout 1961
Another Workout 1961
No Room for Squares 1963

21. Coltrane on Atlantic:
# Giant Steps
# Coltrane Jazz
# My Favorite Things
# Coltrane Plays the Blues
# Olé Coltrane

22. Braxton
New York, Fall 1974
Five Pieces 1975
The Montreux/Berlin Concerts
Creative Orchestra Music 1976
For Four Orchestras

23. Mingus run:

Pithecanthropus Erectus (1956, Atlantic)
The Clown (1957, Atlantic)
Blues & Roots (1959, Atlantic)
Mingus Ah Um (1959, Columbia)
Mingus Dynasty (1959, Columbia)

24. Miles substitute nomination:

Milestones
Porgy And Bess
Kind Of Blue
Sketches Of Spain
Someday My Prince Will Come

25. booker ervin:

The Freedom Book (1963)
The Song Book (1964)
The Blues Book (1964)
The Space Book (1964)
Setting The Pace (1965)

26. joe henderson:

1963: Page One
1963: Our Thing
1964: In 'N Out
1964: Inner Urge
1966: Mode for Joe

27. Nicole Mitchell:

Vision Quest (2001)
Africa Rising (2002)
Hope, Future, Destiny (2004)
Black Unstoppable (2007)
Xenogenesis (2009)

28. Lee Morgan:

Lee-Way
Take Twelve
The Sidewinder
Search For A New Land
Tom Cat

29. brad mehldau:

The Art of the Trio, Vol. IV — Back At The Vanguard (1999)
Places (2000)
The Art of the Trio, Vol. V — Progression (2001)
Largo (2002)
Anything Goes (2004)

30. Esbjorn Svensson Trio:

Good Morning Susie Soho
Strange Place For Snow
Seven Days of Falling
Viaticum
Tuesday Wonderland

31. James Carter:

1995: The Real Quietstorm
1996: Conversin' with the Elders
1998: In Carterian Fashion
2000: Layin' in the Cut
2000: Chasin' the Gypsy

32. Sonny Sharrock:

1986: Guitar
1987: Seize the Rainbow
1990: Highlife
1991: Faith Moves (duo with Nicky Skopelitis)
1991: Ask the Ages

33. Peter Brötzmann:

For Adolphe Sax
Machine Gun
Nipples
Balls
Brötzmann/Van Hove/Bennink

34. Bobby Hutcherson:

1965 Spiral
1965 Dialogue
1965 Components
1966 Happenings
1966 Stick-Up!

35. Grant Green:

1963 Am I Blue?
1963 Idle Moments
1964 Matador
1964 Solid
1964 Talkin' About!

36. Donald Byrd's:

1969 Kofi Blue Note
1970 Electric Byrd Blue Note
1971 Ethiopian Knights Blue Note
1972 Black Byrd Blue Note
1973 Street Lady Blue Note

37. Keith Jarrett:

Facing You
Fort Yawah
Ruta & Daitya
Solo Concerts
Belonging

38. Cecil Taylor :

3 Phasis
Live in the Black Forest (another real fave)
Silent Tongues (totes OUT and intense solo Cecil from slightly earlier, 74)
Great Paris Concert (dbl alb from the early 60s Cafe Monmartre live stuff w/ Murray and Lyons, now heard to better advantage on Revenant's Nefertiti, the Beautiful One Has Come set)
One Too Many Salty Swift and Not Goodbye

39. Leon Thomas

Spirits Known and Unknown (1969)
The Leon Thomas Album (1970)
In Berlin (live) (1971)
Blues and the Soulful Truth (1972)
Full Circle (1973)

40. The Thing!!

# The Thing (2000)
# She Knows... (with Joe McPhee) (2001)
# Garage (2004)
# Live at Blå (2004)
# Action Jazz (2006)

41. Dolphy

1. Out There
2. Caribe
3. Far Cry
4. Live At The Five Spot with Booker Little v. 1
5. Live At The Five Spot v. 2

42. How about for Horace Silver

1964 Song for My Father
1965 The Cape Verdean Blues
1966 The Jody Grind
1968 Serenade to a Soul Sister
1969 You Gotta Take a Little Love

43. Jimmy Smith:

1960 Crazy! Baby
1960 Open House
1960 Back at the Chicken Shack
1960 Midnight Special
1960 Prayer Meetin'

44. Lonnie Liston Smith
1973 Astral Traveling
1974 Cosmic Funk
1974 Expansions
1976 Reflections of a Golden Dream
1977 Live!

45. James Blood Ulmer:
1978 Tales of Captain Black
1980 Are You Glad to Be in America?
1981 Free Lancing
1982 Black Rock
1984 Odyssey

46. Henry Threadgill

You Know The Number (1987)
Easily Slip Into Another World (1988)
Rag, Bush and All (1989)
Spirit of Nuff...Nuff (1991)
Too Much Sugar For A Dime (1993)

47. Rahsaan Roland Kirk:

Blacknuss
Bright Moments
Prepare Thyself
Return Of The 5000 Lb Man
The Three Sided Dream

48. another Coltrane:

Crescent (1964)
A Love Supreme (1965)
The John Coltrane Quartet Plays (1965)
Kulu Se Mama (1965)
Ascension (1965)

49. this later Sun Ra:

The Solar-Myth Approach
The Solar-Myth Approach, v.2
Nuits de la Fondation Maeght, v.1
Nuits de la Fondation Maeght, v.2
It's After the End of the World

50. Andrew Hill

10/1965 AH "Compulsion"
4/1965 Bobby Hutcherson - "Dialogue"
6/1964 Andrew Hill "Andrew!"
3/64 Andrew Hill "Point of Departure"
1/1964 Andrew Hill "Judgement"

I'll wait about a week for ballots, bump it a few times, we'll see whether I get more than 20.

Since it was 5 album runs we shoulda had 5 picks :)

i have not heard any of these in full so i'm not going to vote :(

I have only heard some/most/all of 22 runs here. particularly intrigued by the Threadgill, Shepp, Liston Smith, and Sharrock choices for further listening.

so vote! it's OK!

LOL xpost to Herman if people really want to send five we can do that, it's easy. might be too much for some folks though.

i coulda done 5 easy

Only 1 run I have heard 4 of is the Wayne Shorter, but it is pretty terrific. Give me a week. :)

OK how about:

if anyone sends 5 picks I will weight it 5-4-3-2-1 so it works both ways. top three would be 5-3-1.

this will encourage 5 picks due to more points being assigned, maybe.

ioannis if you wanna resend your ballot with 5 choices then go for it.

19
5
16

NO SPOILERS :D

hmm.

i'll resend mine too

Sent my ballot. Let me know if you don't receive it.

received mail from:

anagram
fighting words man. just shut up.
tuomas
pfunkboy
EZ Snappin

bumpity bump bump

paging:

sarahel
tylerw
shakey mo
fastnbulbous
outdoor_miner
moonship journey
i eat cannibals
m the g
sundar
bendy
frankiemachine

gimme ballots!

also Ward Fowler and Jordan

bump bump bump

only seven ballots so far :(

bump once more for tyler, shakey, others

ten ballots in now

only gonna bump this once more

that will be tomorrow after I go looking for some records based on this thread's recommendations.

Sent you the mail, right?

sent a webmail!

thanx guys

shakey? moonship? sundar?

sorry - forgot about this, will send shortly

just sent it to you via webmail

me too

remember, you can pick either 3 or 5

OK, here is what I bought today cause of this thread:

Lonnie Liston Smith - Cosmic Funk
Wayne Shorter - The All Seeing Eye
Duke Ellington - Toga Brava Suite 2LP

I was informed that all of the Threadgill, Taylor, and Sharrock records listed above are out of print and very difficult to find. Bummer.

I looked at a live Archie Shepp set, More Fire Music, most of which is from Newport '65. Can anyone tell me whether this is a worthwhile purchase?

Threadgill's "Spirit of Nuff...Nuff" is available as a digital download from Amazon for like $7. I still see used copies of "Too Much Sugar For A Dime" relatively regularly for under $10 (Axiom was distributed by Island so a lot of copies made it out to retail).

yeah, Axiom going defunct was the problem with finding Sharrock's Ask The Ages and probably a bunch of other stuff.

OK cool, we got to twenty votes! Thanks everybody. I'll total things up over the next few days. If anybody else wants to vote I should be able to get you in if you hurry.

Anybody else hear anything good out of this thread that they didn't know before?

Sextant sounded pretty cool on first hearing; tho not exactly Miles worthy, imo. too much other good stuff here to even begin contemplating procuring (d/l) at the moment really. (fine time for me to go through a serious extreme metal phase, innit... bah, who started these jazz/funk threads anyway? oh wait...)

I enjoyed re-listening to stuff I hadn't touched in years, now that I ripped everything to my NAS-flac-Squeezebox setup. Enjoyed rediscovering Albert Ayler. Will pick up Machine Gun and some Roland Kirk soon.

hey, I have results!

HONORABLE MENTION (tied for 11th): (5 points each)

2. an early Bill Evans run:
Portrait in Jazz,
Explorations,
Sunday at the Village Vanguard,
Waltz for Debby,
How My Heart Sings!

(this received two votes, 3 and 2 points)

13. Sun Ra:
# 1965 – The Heliocentric Worlds of Sun Ra, Volume One by Sun Ra
# 1965 – The Magic City by Sun Ra and his Solar Arkestra
# 1965 – The Heliocentric Worlds of Sun Ra, Volume Two by Sun Ra
# 1966 – Nothing Is by Sun Ra (live)
# 1966 – Strange Strings

(ditto for the votes)

46. Henry Threadgill
You Know The Number (1987)
Easily Slip Into Another World (1988)
Rag, Bush and All (1989)
Spirit of Nuff...Nuff (1991)
Too Much Sugar For A Dime (1993)

(received one first place vote)

TIED FOR NINTH (eight points each)

5. Coltrane:
John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman (1963)
Impressions (1963)
Live at Birdland (1964)
Crescent (1964)
A Love Supreme (1965)

(2 votes, 5 and 3 points)

18. Pharoah Sanders -
Izipho Zam,
Karma,
Jewels Of Thought,
Deaf Dumb Blind (Summun Bukmun Umyun),
Thembi

(2 votes, 4 and 4 points)

EIGHTH:

48. another Coltrane:
Crescent (1964)
A Love Supreme (1965)
The John Coltrane Quartet Plays (1965)
Kulu Se Mama (1965)
Ascension (1965)

(9 points, 3 votes, 1 first place vote)

oops those last two should be "tied for tenth" and "ninth", the honorable mentions are tied for 12th. carry on.

TIED FOR SEVENTH:

6. Cookin' with the Miles Davis Quintet (1956)
Relaxin' with the Miles Davis Quintet (1956)
Workin' with the Miles Davis Quintet (1956)
Steamin' with the Miles Davis Quintet (1956)
'Round About Midnight (1955-1956)

33. Peter Brötzmann:
For Adolphe Sax
Machine Gun
Nipples
Balls
Brötzmann/Van Hove/Bennink

(each with ten points and 2 first place votes)

SIXTH:

12. Mingus
Town Hall Concert (1962, Blue Note)
Oh Yeah (1962, Atlantic)
Tijuana Moods (1962, RCA)
The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady (1963, Impulse!)
Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus (1963, Impulse!)

(11 points, 4 votes)

no more ties after this, I'll post the top five later.

Hmm, I thought Pharoah would place higher. Can't argue with the other results though.

way too much worthy competition, re: Pharoah.

(btw, this is where i shamefully admit to only having heard Pharoah in his capacity as a sideman--the Coltrane's, et al.)

FIFTH:

1. Alice Coltrane:
A Monastic Trio 1968
Huntington Ashram Monastery 1969
Journey In Satchidananda 1970
Ptah, The El Daoud 1971
Universal Consciousness 1971

(13 points, 3 votes, 2 first place votes)

FOURTH:

8. Ornette Coleman's 1st run:
Something Else!!!! (1958)
Tomorrow Is the Question! (1959)
The Shape of Jazz to Come (1959)
Change of the Century (1959)
This Is Our Music (1960)

(14 points, 5 votes)

THIRD:

23. Mingus run:
Pithecanthropus Erectus (1956, Atlantic)
The Clown (1957, Atlantic)
Blues & Roots (1959, Atlantic)
Mingus Ah Um (1959, Columbia)
Mingus Dynasty (1959, Columbia)

(16 points, 4 votes, 1 first place vote)

SECOND:

9. Herbie Hancock:
Mwandishi (1971)
Crossings (1972)
Sextant (1973)
Head Hunters (1973)
Thrust (1974)

(17 points, 6 votes, 2 first place votes)

FIRST:

19.
# In a Silent Way (1969)
# Bitches Brew (1970)
# A Tribute to Jack Johnson (1970)
# On the Corner (1972)
# Big Fun (1974 - previously unissued recordings from 1969-1972)

(a landslide with 39 points, nine votes, and six first place votes)

glorious. brave sleeve for the effort put in. this thread will be a fantastic resource for me from hereon.

[just started on my jazz journey this year .. ]

bravo of course, not brave, though you most certainly are that i suspect.

haha i knew that would walk it. yay for herbie making second though.

yeah, now I am going to go try and wrap my head around that Wayne Shorter "All Seeing Eye" LP

thanks for all the recommendations everybody. i'm kind of an intermediate level jazz fan and reliable tips like this really help expand my knowledge. and hear great music to boot.

as a side note, I really wish the system's polling system was weighted like this, you get a much better set of results.

other runs that received two votes: 3, 4, 32

13 more received one vote.

Honourable Mention (tied) Bill Evans ,Sun Ra, Henry Threadgill.
10 (tied) John Coltrane, Pharoah Sanders.
9 John Coltrane
7 Miles Davis, Peter Brötzmann.
6 Charles Mingus
5 Alice Coltrane
4 Ornette Coleman
3 Charles Mingus
2 Herbie Hancock
1 Miles Davis

I'm glad I put Threadgill first, otherwise this would be pretty much all old established classics. Hope it gets some people to check him out, especially all the Mingus fans out there; I think he's the best composer since the big man.

i have (and love) Air's Lore on vinyl. need more.

As much as I love the Air stuff, I think he really found his place when he he started composing for and playing in bigger groups. The expanded palette allows for greater play in his case. Plus, I just love groups with two tubas.

Clearly, I need to hear some Threadgill stuff. Where should I start?

Tyler-

it really depends on what you like when it comes to jazz. The Air stuff is minimalist free jazz, a trio of Threadgill on sax and flute, Fred Hopkins on bass and Steve McCall on drums. The Sextett (which is a septet - he didn't count himself) reminds me the most of Mingus' late 50s and early 60s bands, with Threadgill, two drummers, bass, cello, trumpet and trombone. The Very Very Circus years see him with two tubas, two electric guitars, a trombone, french horn, and drums, and is all over the place as far as sounds and influences. Then with Zooid he had a mainly acoustic group with strings and an oud; Make A Move continued in a Very Very Circus vein, with electric guitars and a vibraphone player.

I like all of it, but as far as an entry point I would probably point toward the Sextett (so any of the first three of the run above; the last two are Very Very Circus).

i wish Hemphill had gotten some love here. i couldn't find a five album run for him, but Dogon A.D. and Coon Bid'ness are ~nearly~ as classic as Air-Lore

thx for the reccs, EZ, will check those out. I think I've heard some Air stuff ...

Wow, fusion rules the roost! I need to hear that Big Fun album. Surprised about Alice Coltrane beating her husband! Must be because of votes split between his two runs.

Big Fun is all included in the Silent Way and Jack Johnson boxes, right?

I don't know for sure but I'd be surprised if that was the case. I'm too poor for those box sets

My 50 monthly eMusic credits just refreshed, and the Silent Way box is 36 credits. V v tempted...

DO IT. Worth it for the 25-minute sprawl of "Ghetto Walk" alone ...

The tracks from Big Fun are spread out between the Bitches Brew, Jack Johnson and On the Corner boxes.

I have the Complete Silent Way Sessions box set. It cost £25 last xmas or the one before, i forget.

A travesty. Davis is like nowhere at all in regards to what I think about when I think about great jazz.

you mean electric Miles, or all Miles?

All Miles.

lol, really? well, yr missing out on a lot of great jazz!

strange

Well I voted - and indeed nominated - Ayler, Brotzmann and Braxton, which gives you an idea of the angle from which I'm approaching this thing.

Sleeve can you repost my ballot? I forget who i voted for. I think Herbie got my no1 vote but i forget the others.

For iPod purposes, I usually tag electric Miles as Kraut/Kosmische tbh.

I dont think i voted miles

i love tons of miles records, but it does seem that miles is most peoples default standard for What Jazz Is, which is a little weird.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2_FdodDPCVQ/SFDZQoRYpbI/AAAAAAAAADM/Z4YDh0TxYos/s400/Booklet+1+Front1.jpg

xp yeah Kind of Blue is pretty much established as the jazz album it's OK to like by people who don't like jazz. Nothing to frighten the horses. All the rough edges smoothed off.

I like the mid-60s Miles Quintet, and some of the Gil Evans stuff, but otherwise I don't care for much. Have absolutely zero use for the electric years, no matter how many times I try. Not a big trumpet guy, which sure doesn't help Miles' cause.

i don't think miles was a big trumpet guy

My 50 monthly eMusic credits just refreshed, and the Silent Way box is 36 credits. V v tempted

xpost: i put together a "faux" album from IaSW box. the actual IaSW disc and the forthcoming tracklist is usually what i listen to when i reach for this era of Miles. could save you some emusic credits if you like -
"Ascent"(faux title)
1. ascent
2. directions 1
3. directions 2
4. The Ghetto Walk
5. Early Minor
i think this works really nicely as a standalone disc...

Have absolutely zero use for the electric years, no matter how many times I try.

'nother xpost:
don't give up until you try Aghartha, played LOUDLY, during an intense electrical storm!

Re: your Silent Way outtakes disc-- I'm thinking about doing a best of the Miles electric box sets comp... one disc of material from each set. Might be interesting.

hey Herman here's your ballot:

1st Place -
9. Herbie Hancock:

Mwandishi (1971)
Crossings (1972)
Sextant (1973)
Head Hunters (1973)
Thrust (1974)

2nd place -
18. Pharoah Sanders -

Izipho Zam,
Karma,
Jewels Of Thought,
Deaf Dumb Blind (Summun Bukmun Umyun),
Thembi

3rd place -
15. Archie Shepp -

Fire Music,
On This Night,
Three for a Quarter,
One for a Dime,
Mama Too Tight,
The Magic Of Juju.

fourth place -
Hank Mobley:
Soul Station 1960
Roll Call 1960
Workout 1961
Another Workout 1961
No Room for Squares 1963

fifth place -

28. Lee Morgan:

Lee-Way
Take Twelve
The Sidewinder
Search For A New Land
Tom Cat

for what its worth I really love those electric Miles albums.

me too, i just knew others would vote for it. Thanks for posting my ballot.
I could have voted for 36 of those runs btw. A lot of the remaining I am unfamiliar with and will check out in due course!

I wish I had not been such a turd about the internets in the last 6 months or so--I could have voted on all but three of these runs--Mehldau has never really caught my attention, & Duke, well, they tell me you have to love Duke, but I just have never spent much coin on Duke. Got 3 out of the ten posted, that'll do me. I don't have any Benny Goodman, either.

for Goodman et al I highly recommend the Bluebird "Complete" series on mono double LPs, there are like ten of them.

Did I forget to vote? Man, I don't remember… Hope not.