"the whole reformation culture that is poisoning music right now"

Judes control international media: the jumped up little shits on ILX discuss the Guardian music pages in 2009

^yeah so this is a line that's been bothering me for a while (not this post specifically, it was only made five minutes ago) - like, does this have a real and meaningful impact on people's day to day enjoyment of music? It seems weird to me that anyone might go about their business in a way that didn't allow them to basically ignore such-and-such a band getting back together.

On the rare occasion that ppl try and give a reason for saying something like this it tends to be along the lines of 'it impedes the development/promotion of new bands', which really doesn't strike me as realistic, given how many bands reform per year to any sort of widespread fanfare vs how many get widespread press hype over the course of 12 months. I dunno, any time someone has a 'stance' about stuff like this it just reads like get-off-my-lawn grouchiness... I figure folks on here can articulate it better though maybe

I'm all thinking 'what DOES Martin Luther have to do with modern music'...

Regarding most bands that get back together I think- well at least you seperated before you made a bunch of shitty albums over an unhappy decade or two that soiled yr career. Now play the hits, pick up yr check and be on yr way.

and stop cryin' your hearNO NO NO STOP!!!

bands have been reforming for as long as they've been splitting up. thanks to "reformation culture" i got to see the stooges! how can that not be a win??

Hahaha. To be honest, I don't really think it is stifling new music or hindering any chances for new bands - I go to plenty of gigs and see just as many new and interesting people as I ever used to. Perhaps what *I* mean by it is more a case of 'it is poisoning the musical culture/scene/environment of which I have in the past enjoyed being a part'. For a certain section of the musical world really is seeming to lose its desire to do anything except see reformed bands play an old album in the exact order it was released in. And while I love some of these bands, having this be the focus of your music experiences is boring, it is tired, and it has little to nothing to do with being a rabid music fan. But maybe the problem is just that my friends who once were rabid music fans have become old, tired and boring themselves.

reformed bands can be healthy as part of a balanced diet, i guess... undoubtedly the comfort of the familiar is much of the attraction of some of these reformations, and that's not something i necessarily dig. but fuck it, the harmony rockets just reformed, you know? that's going to be wild whichever way you cut it.

Yeah obv I can't speak for your pals but I strongly suspect that if that sector of attendees weren't going to these gigs, they'd be going to... no gigs

(xp)

And some of them might even get to see the support band!

but fuck it, the harmony rockets just reformed, you know?

!!!

i know, go figure!

sometimes reformed bands are still really great live- I've no regrets about seeing Wire, The Incredible String Band and Throbbing Gristle, and even the mysterious and perverse version of The Germs that currently tours. I think it's diceier in cases like Mayhem where there are very few original members.

The Buzzcocks reformation, when they had John Maher and Paddy, was great.

Not long after, those guys went back to their lives with a few bob, and Pete and Steve got 2 new guys...

Devo were a lot of fun, I can't think of any other reformed bands I've actually seen as opposed to a bunch who've just gone on lengthy hiatus

It was cool seeing the original lineup of Gang of Four perform live. Especially since every band in the world was ripping them off at the time.

Isn't the "reformation culture" largely an indie thing, at least with regard to it's current manifestations? Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it seems to me. So...

If (let's just say if) one were of the opinion that indie culture has been steadily constricting into a stiflingly tasteful, confrontation-averse, marketability-driven orthodoxy over the last decade or two, and if one saw this as a Bad Thing, then I suppose our hypothetical one might reasonably object to the "reformation culture" as yet another symptom indie's creative bankruptcy.

I don't personally accept any of those ifs, so the hand-wringing about the "poisoning [of] music" strikes me as ludicrous, but can still see why one might feel that way.

...an indie/punk thing...

The only truly shitty reformation i've seen was White Noise. i think if we try to put aside all the rock-crit warbling about relevance and whether they're doin it for the kids or the cash, it usually comes down to whether the band were good or not in the first place.

I think it's diceier in cases like Mayhem where there are very few original members.

Mayhem's not a reunion though; they've been going continuously, just with lots of membership changes.

Bauhaus released a kickass album when they reformed

Isn't the "reformation culture" largely an indie thing, at least with regard to it's current manifestations?

isn't it indie copying mainstream pop? the first rash of band-reforms-and-tours was mostly eighties pop groups, i thought.

I sort of prefer the early-2000s pop reunion tours phenomenon to Don't Look Back &c because generally that's just the nostalgia industry, not the nostalgia industry plus reinforcement of the indie-rock canon? but w/evs.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/noodle_vague/martin-luther.jpg

i think reformations (and the nostalgia industry in general) clogs up the cultural space and garner undue attention (from music fans, yes, but also the media), and every time i see someone being enthusiastic about one i sigh inside. i guess they're harmless though, apart from the media aspect. like giving over one inch of media or second of thought to eg a bananarama reunion is an admission of defeat.

seems like a symptom of a problem rather than a cause. if it even is a problem.

of course if reformations actually result in good new music i'm all for them

'what DOES Martin Luther have to do with modern music'...

He actually gets a shout-out in the current Brad Paisley single:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JAH_V3gb5c

"like giving over one inch of media or second of thought to eg a bananarama reunion is an admission of defeat."

still going. never broke up. just, you know, an original person replaced, and now just a duo.

in fact, bananarama released a bryan adams cover this year (run to you) AND a bryan ferry cover (tokyo joe)!

Mashup

did you know that bananarama's mid-90's album ultra-violet (originally japan-only) was released in the u.s. but never released in the u.k.? sad really.

they also cover the runner on their new album. one of my fave moroder tunes. i think the adams and ferry songs are download only. they would have been b-sides once upon a time.

their 2001 album, exotica, only came out in france. which is probably why you won't see a copy at a record store. unless you are french.

got all that?

every time i see someone being enthusiastic about one i sigh inside ... like giving over one inch of media or second of thought to eg a bananarama reunion is an admission of defeat.

I don't see what the huge difference is between going to see some band you like who've just reformed and some band you like who never broke up (seeing as most of the reformation gravy train is based around playing live)... it's, y'know, an hour or two of passing entertainment to slightly improve the quality of your life for a while

i'm not a big reunion fan. i've seen some good shows - pretty things, chameleons - but i don't think i've ever really been EXCITED about a band playing again after a zillion years. i think its nice for the truly fanatical and maybe for the musicians themselves sometimes, but, eh, it's really not the same. oh yeah mission of burma were cool too. and oh wait steely dan! okay, i lied, i was excited for that. saw them at saratoga right when they first went back out on tour and it was majik.

Van der Graaf Generator was definitely the exception to this but generally I couldn't give a monkey's. Oh, I wish I'd gone to see TG too tho.

This basically breaks down on a case by case basis rilly.

Agree w/ scott on reunion shows, even on nostalgia-milking shows by consistently active artists who are arguably past their glory years. As much as I love Reign In Blood and Houdini, I have little interest in seeing either played "live, in its entirety!". (That slights The Melvins unnecessarily, as I think they're still doing interesting work -- they were great a few years ago with Keiji Haino.) A big part of my interest in music is based on an attraction to novel artistic experience, and that necessarily goes out the window as nostalgia becomes a dominant element. For that reason, I found the Pixies reunion shows intensely dispiriting. Not denying that surprising reinvention is always possible...

burma has been way cooler than i thought...i mean i guess now this is more like part 2 of a career than a reunion, they've done more studio albums since they reformed than they did the first time!

i am a big fan of the 'play classic album in its entirety' trend tho

xpost: Burma goes under "surprising reinvention" for me, or reinvigoration at least. Saw em a little while before The Obliterati came out and was blown away. Much more legitimately inspirational than Television, who I saw at about the same time and who did great job presenting the material but were still awful damn cover-band-y.

You know who needs to reform? Stetsasonic.

just say stat

the first rash of band-reforms-and-tours was mostly eighties pop groups, i thought

A bunch of 60s bands got back together to tour in the 80s once the Dead started selling out stadiums. Jefferson Airplane, CSNY, and some others I can't recall.

starship never left homie

bummer

M Night Shyamalan's Battlestar Galactica

nothing was gonna stop them now...or then...even if they were dead the whole time

starship never left homie

Marty Balin, dawg

David Yow bet me a nickel recently that this tour is the last Jesus Lizard tour ever. I expect to collect that nickel from him one day.

I think the band that stands to really triple its fanbase and guaranty is Sleater-Kinney. That eventual reunion tour is gonna be gold for those girls.

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2008/01/Stephen%20Malkmus.jpg

"What I said . . . it's human nature to say, 'I still can do it.' You know. 'I want to prove someone wrong.' ...And if either you're told you're not the best, or you feel like someone's going in a different direction, I think you would want to prove you could still do it."

I remember reading a Sonic Youth interview somewhere where Thurston joked about how much more money they would be making if they'd pulled a Pixies.

oh totally, if they went away for even just the period that they made 3 or 4 albums, they'd be raking it in

Definitely. And yeah, I was actually thinking about the Sleater-Kinney thing the other day. They are going to be huuuuuuge when they tour again.

lol I love that we've got to the point when you write 'when' not 'if' like it's just a thing without any of them ever having said much about getting back together

is this just something where a band has to appeal to older siblings in such a way that the younger siblings that didn't get to see them when they were originally touring are really psyched about the idea 10 years later?

i mean not every touchstone indie band that reunites rakes in the cash. the Meat Puppets might actually be playing to smaller crowds now than they were in the 90s.

Has Young Marble Giants done a reunion yet? I would think they could rake in some chee$e from the cardigan-and-cake set, esp if "performing Colossal Youth in its entirety"

yes they have gotten back together

(no hate btw, Colossal Youth is an erm colossal record)

Whew, good thing rap got in under Geir's cut-off date!

Only as a short lived novelty fad.

They've done that album a couple of times as well as less prescripted, more ramshackle type things xxp

"lol I love that we've got to the point when you write 'when' not 'if' like it's just a thing without any of them ever having said much about getting back together"

It's true. And as for Sleater-Kinney, I'm just repeating my speculation from they day they announced their break-up. It's almost like it's just a natural part of the whole Behind the Music story now. Take five years off, and triple your appeal. Once the kids are in kindergarten, you are set.

Oh god, I wish the "real" world worked like that. Take 4-5 years off to be with your young kids knowing that you can just pick it back up to double the acclaim and triple the $$$$. That would be awesome.

does yob count as a breakup?

sad how long it took in this thread for someone to recognize that bands are made up of human beings who have a right to play whenever they want be it for fun or profit or because they got over some personal shit or whatever. trying to analyze this as a trend is pretty much a ridiculous waste of time.

honestly as hard is it is to make money in music i don't hate on anyone who can go out there and make money for people that want to see them.

like it's cool that we all decided buying CDs was bullshit, but then i think you sorta forfeit the right to expect musicians to live up to some weird ideas you have about "preserving my precious college memories" or whatever shit.

also a lot of these reunions gave ppl who were too young to see certain bands the first time around a chance to do so, and f u forever if you begrudge anyone for that.

yeah, I think it was Joey Santiago of the Pixies who said before the reunion that the bucks he'd make would put his kids in a better school district or something. I mean, if that's the case, and you get to go out and play in front of people who love your music, how the hell can anyone begrudge a band for getting back together, even if it is for the money? I'd do it.

honestly i was way too young for burma the first time, and the first reunion tour for them i was just on cloud 9 the whole show, man what an amazing night

yeah i mean burma, slint, mbv reunions were three of the best ten shows i've ever seen

yeah, I think it was Joey Santiago of the Pixies who said before the reunion that the bucks he'd make would put his kids in a better school district or something. I mean, if that's the case, and you get to go out and play in front of people who love your music, how the hell can anyone begrudge a band for getting back together, even if it is for the money? I'd do it.

geeze you guys when you put it that way... this definitely doesn't change my personal opinion on reformation concerts, but obviously i believe people should be able to do what they want and accept money when they play concerts.

yeah, I'm not sure what army you guys are fighting. emily.y & lex?

not fightin just sayin

lol I love that we've got to the point when you write 'when' not 'if' like it's just a thing without any of them ever having said much about getting back together

― Vladislav Delap (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 14 October 2009 22:24 (1 hour ago) Bookmark

Well considering Janet is still touring and making records, Carrie is still kind of in and around music and Corin is raising a child, you can quite easily imagine them all kicking it when the child is grown up, like on a schools summer holiday or something. It wasn't like they broke up hating each other (I think) and when I saw them circa The Woods, they still seemed v. passionate and having fun with each other. Reforming with a quick tour or two and making some $$$ really does seem inevitable (and I hope I'm not wrong here but if I am, I am just glad I got to see them!)

Ha, I figured after I pressed submit that it would prolly read sarcastic from a certain POV... I would say that it's highly likely they will get back together at some point, using the knowledge gleaned from the shit being talked abt in this thread etc, it's just lol that jon writes "when" in that blase manner

yeah i mean burma, slint, mbv reunions were three of the best ten shows i've ever seen

― call all destroyer, Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:15 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

My experience of Slint... I dunno how typical it was but if I was on the other side of the fence I might use it as evidence for the prosecution, insofar as they were playing a venue that was at least 10 times bigger than what they experienced the first time round, and what I've always heard as very intimate and claustrophobic music didn't suit the whole atmos at all. I don't think they played badly and it's cool they got a proper payday off the back of a rad album, but that wasn't one that I hold up as a great example of how these things manifest themselves

Eh, its just a band playing a gig in the end. The idea that these bands reforming is poisoning music is just a hangover from the whole 90s DIY, indie realness thing.

xp the first slint reunion show i saw was in a big venue to but the sound was unreal--it was like spiderland (which is really TOO quietly mastered on cd imo) gone arena and it pretty much ruled.

"does yob count as a breakup?"

Band dissolves. One guy starts new band with new name. Gets dropped from label. Gets call from the original drummer. Reunites. Signs to new label. Plays bigger and better shows than ever before.

I would say, yes.

Only reformed band I've been to see was MBV and it was a real letdown. Doesn't really devalue contemporary music, or the records MBV made in any way, shape, or form tho. So I don't really see the point in complaining about the trend.

stooges reformation show that i saw was amazing, easily one of the best gigs i've seen. pixies were pretty tight too, i was never some hardcore fan of theirs but i enjoyed that immensely.

i feel what lex says about reformations sucking up the available media space goes to the real problem here, that being mainstream media (conservative, unwilling to take risks on what's being written about) sliding into the shitter. but that's a bigger problem than just music coverage.

Nobody got a beef with a band reforming and playing shows. Just the amount of encouragement folks give to bands to tempt them into it, rather than trying to big up new stuff. It's the volume of reformations, the prominence of those bands on festival bills, etc.

it's the "rather than trying to big up new stuff" part of your argument where you lose me. do you think new bands are losing money or being ignored because some old band reunited? do you think bands that could be writing and playing new songs are neglecting to do so because it's more profitable to do a tour of one of their classic albums?

Mainly talking about ATP.

MBV REFO WUZ TAPES

OK, "Reformation bands" I went and saw.

Buzzcocks
The Velvet Underground.

i saw That Petrol Emotion this year.
while at the time it felt rather strange revisiting my past, i cant recall seeing the band enjoying themselves as much as they did at the reunion.
they arent raking in the ££ like other big names (in fact i think steve mack has virtually funded the whole thing ..), but just enjoying playing the songs.

Saw the Velvets reunion in 1993, it was pretty shocking.

The VdGG one is spectacular and they have done two new albums since they reformed, which can't be said for most of these reforming acts. Although they are now down to a trio again.

I very much enjoyed the Lloyd Cole & the Commotions reunion in 2004.

Another one no-one has yet mentioned was Dead Can Dance, I never managed to see them first time around so their reunion in 2005 was very special to me.

I have seen literally millions of reformed punk bands over the last decade or so. Most of the time it is fun.

Yeah, I came across a copy of the program for 'Edinburgh - European City of Punk Rock 1996' a few weeks ago, featuring all the usual suspects. And it is still fun, and that seems to go for the people on stage as much as the audience. Depends on whether you want the critical ideal of a band, or the sweaty, warts'n'all reality of live music.

(Oh, and I LOVE hearing people go on about how a band they saw 20 years ago look 20 years older, and so do the audience. Not you though, right?)

No,not me.

The Buzzcocks looked much the same. Then again, they were always older than me so it wasn't a great surprise.

Sorry, I wasn't getting at you personally - I meant the hypothetical grumpy punter who seems to overlook the fact they're 20 years older too.

The Buzzcocks look great, sound great and obviously still love what they're doing.

Oh I knew that..

The Velvets were nice, and it was amazing that the one band I thought I'd never see actually reformed and flew to a different country to their own, to the 'large' gig venue that I know well and can get to easily. Before they started to die off!

Gotta respect that!

Yeah, in retrospect, it was sort of disappointing if you listen to the live recordings afterwards. But hey, on the night it was all good.

Good God, That Petrol Emotion. "Cellophane" surely the closer. Or did they get an encore?

So, speculation today that Bloc Party have split up in the middle of their tour in order to pull the reformation show trick in a couple of years?

Bloc Party have unfortunately been forced to cancel this Friday’s Newport show as guitarist Russell Lissack has to undergo a medical procedure which, whilst not being serious, cannot be delayed until the end of the tour.

Good God, That Petrol Emotion. "Cellophane" surely the closer. Or did they get an encore?

that was played as part of the set.
sorry, cant recall what the 2 encores consisted of.
also, word reaches me that they are to be doing a show in NYC in the near future.