Big Star c/d (again?)

...that last bit is a reference to a vulgar cover of "In the Street" employed during the opening credits to the American TV hit "That 70's Show." It truly has sullied a song that I consider, well, classic.

"Wish we had/ a joint so baaaaaaaaad."

I really dig their ballads, but I feel like their rock stuff isn't that hot. As for the third album, I never quite 'got it.' I felt like the song quality was a lot worse than the first two.

a few duds but a lot of songs ("Holocaust" "Big Black Car" "Thank You Friends") that don't stand up well alone, butwork well within the album, and serve to freak me out, in a good way. Lots of albums get the "dark" "disturbing" tag, but this one really delivers. Best listened to in its entirety, but when it hits me, it's beyond "Radio City."

As for the rockers, "Feel" and "Oh My Soul" and a coupe of others sound dated, but I sense some irony in them.

"The Concept" is classic ;)

very classic, mainly for "third" which is such a wonderfully melancholic album. also love the box tops as well. "soul deep" and "you keep tightening up on me" are two of my favourite songs of all time...

"hey/ do you know where you belong/ and is your star sign ever wrong" vs. "kittie asked me to read her stars/ i've liked her/ from afar" heh. out of all of them, "guiding star" could have been a big star song.

thirteen is the best acoustic ballad ever written (unless you count 'more than words')

Classic. From the first to the last record. Besides, "Holocaust" is one of the best songs of depression and self-loathing ever.

They are better than Wishbone Ash, as proved by science.

All their records are really patchy - Radio City in particular has almost nothing on it that I like - but I still quite like the band. Whatever drugs he was or wasn't on they sound to me like one of the great drunk rock groups, their 3-album career (like I said on here somewhere before) tracing the arc of a bender: merrily buzzing - dangerously slurred and lairy - ghastly hangover ending in glorious mental peace (or with your head in a toilet depending on what track- order your copy is).

Surprise. I have more or less to agree to what Tom says.
Teenage Fanclub took everything which was good about Big Star (melody, the guitars and good lyrics) and left out all the bad things like too many drugs, schmaltz and overproduction. Bandwagonesque and Grand Prix are miles better than anything I know of Big Star. In any case I think Alex Chilton solo was much better than Big Star. The Live in London disc is phantastic rockabilly and fresh as ever. My favourite Big Star album is the last one and that was more a Chilton solo album. Recently I saw Calexico live. The worst song of their set was a Big Star tune I didn't know. It sounded so dated and bland. Must have been from the second album Radio City as I don't know that album well. Another band which makes me think of Big Star and which makes them look very pale in comparison is Wilco.

*head explodes*

*whole body, world, universe explodes*

Alex you really are bonkers. I don't often listen to Big Star these days, but to say that TF *improved* upon them is crazy. The hint that something dark and not-quite-right was about to happen (or HAD just happened) in songs like Thirteen, Back Of A Car, El Goodo, You Get What You Deserve... contrasts so well with the sunny pop-ness of the melodies. This feeling is entirely absent from all of TF's anaemic facsimilies (and the much over-praised and too sugary Raspberries, by the way). I guess it's what you refer to as 'too many drugs'.

The melodies - When My Baby's Beside Me, My Life is Right, YGWYD, Jesus Christ, Nighttime, Sept.Gurls - wow! Chilton (and Bell) simply had the gift of writing something *new* sounding which once heard you'd never forget. TF can't do that - they're hacks adept at impersonations - Dinosaur Jnr, Big Star, late Beatles...but have nothing of their own to add.

A couple of other thoughts - I don't much like 'Third' but it;s interesting enough. Alex mentioned the production - to me it seems clean, spacy and bright, and sort of *glam* at times. I like it. The first two albums sound like they have beefed-up Ken Scott productions.

If you want to hear a band of today who have taken elements of BS and worked them into something they could honestly call their own, try Cotton Mather or Loud Family. Or from the 1980's Let's Active. But TF - holy shit, no!

TF totally added something of their own - a kind of oh-well-mates- again hugginess which I'm sure turns you off if you're a fan of Big Star's 'dark edge' or whatever, but was let's face it more 'realistic' for all but the most hardcore nihilistic fuck-ups. Teenage Fanclub are more miss than hit and sure they weren't original, but nothing in Big Star's work makes me feel like "The Concept" does.

Blimey back-to-back with Alex from Mainhattan against the ILM hordes - this is like a bad issue of Marvel Team-Up!

but why oh why does music need to be "realistic"? I mean if you're married does it mean you shouldn't listen to songs about unrequited love?

I think that Teenage Fanclub's music just isn't very beautiful, and on occasion, Big Star's is.

Turn up the 'hugginess thing' a notch more and you've got Dodgy. I guess 'comfortable' just not something I look for in music.

BTW - it's good to see you back on ILM, Alex!

I'm not saying that realism or hugginess are de facto good qualities in all music, just that they are two ways in which you can separate Teenage Fanclub from Big Star.

I actually think that as songwriters TFC are very good at dealing with the kind of compromises and tiny moments that make up a long- term relationship - the problem is their tune-writing wasn't often good enough to make that work and not be a bit boring too. When it was ("The Concept", "Alcoholiday", "Some People Try To Fuck With You") I'm much fonder of them than I am of obnoxious Chilton. Chilton on the other hand is occasionally great at capturing the hopeless and lonely moments when selfishness meets self-doubt - "What's Goin' Ahn", "Big Black Car" if it's the one I'm thinking of. So they each have their uses.

"When My Baby's Beside Me" is by far the best Big Star rocker (I never got the deal with September Gurls, actually) for the sinatraish rubato which drives the hook in the vocals. "When my baby's beside me I . Don't. Worry/ When my baby's beside me AAALLLLL Iknow."

I don't mind TFC, they have their pop moments, but none of them can match Chilton's singing voice for sheer drunken self-pity/self- loathing/lasciviousness - see also the wonderful 'Like Flies on Sherbert' alb, which these days I much prefer to 'Sister Lovers'.

i am here at the sonic youth concert in cologne and far away of this big star discussion. can't really add anymore to this thread, big star just bore me to death. now i am off for some good stuff... thanks that you missed me, dr.c. btw i wasn't away. just a little bit calm.