The Heart of Rock and Soul Poll: the 1001 Greatest Singles Part 27: 326-350

You've got a lot of nerve to say......

"Walk on By" in a walk.

Dylan, Chaka, Bobby Bare, Dells, Chuck Jackson, George Jones, Manfred Mann, Lavern Baker and Billy Ocean. But this comes down to the Miracles and Dionne Warwick. Slight edge to Dionne.

Billy Ocean? Really?

"How Daddy Is Doing"

Chaka. Maybe my all-time favorite single.

Dionne just over Chaka.

1988 Billy Ocean Get out of my dreams, get out of my car

JUST GET OUT

these are getting ridiculous.i guess it's dylan's kiss-off vs. dionne's, with george's just behind.

This will be like that Purple Rain/Born in the U.S.A. Pazz & Jop, with "Positively Fourth Street" and "Walk on By" closely splitting some huge percentage of all votes cast...I'll vote for Dylan by a millimetre, with "Ooh Baby Baby" sitting third and the Ronettes' lesser-known but very fine "Do I Love You?" fourth. Of more pressing concern, Marsh should have picked "When the Going Gets Tough, the Tough Get Going" instead. Maybe it turns up later, I don't remember.

I like the Billy Ocean song a lot. I think I voted for "Walk On By" though; I was deliberating between it and "Any Day Now", though I prefer Ronnie Milsap's Avalon-like take on the latter (and I don't remember which one I actually voted for; actually it could have been "You Never Can Tell", which is the archetype for a bunch of rock lyrics as you all know).

"Of more pressing concern, Marsh should have picked "When the Going Gets Tough, the Tough Get Going" instead. Maybe it turns up later, I don't remember."

There's only 1 Billy Ocean song in Marsh's book. Also, who doesn't love "Caribbean Queen" or "Loverboy" or 1976's "Love Really Hurts Without You"?

"Walk on By" with a bunch of others pretty close.

"When the Going Gets Tough..." is #1 on my list of Billy Ocean Songs That Greil Marcus Once Wrote Something About (I'm willing to share my entire list if you e-mail me directly), but "Caribbean Queen" is in fact my favourite Billy Ocean song (the only one I can still listen to, probably), so I digress from both Marcus and Marsh on that front.

Yeah, I'm a "Caribbean Queen" guy too. But I have nothing against this one. (Does Marsh write about it as if it's an update of "Get Off My Cloud"? Pretty sure somebody did. Call-and-response and all that.)

otherwise, I guess Chuck Berry (best wedding-day song ever) > Dionne > Dylan > Dion > Bobby Bare > Del Shannon > Smokey.

Chuck, Marsh writes about it as "a new take on car songs" and references "Maybelline" and "Thunder Road," but not "Get Off My Cloud."

Why did I not know that Mutt Lange produced the Billy Ocean track?

"Walk On By" easy. I love how the phrasing mimics breaking down into sobs (inside, of course).

But I gotta agree with Xgau that Bacharach/David signify little outside Warwick and vice-versa (despite Darnielle's ace appreciation of 1970s/1980s Warwick in Marooned). The latest reminder was a holiday screening of the 1973 musical remake of Lost Horizon with godawful songs by Bacharach/David - lazy, tautological rhymes, namby-pamby melodies, musical personalities such as Sally Kellerman and Shawn Phillips bringing them alive (not to mention some of the most tossed-off choreography ever to disgrace a film...and by Hermes Pan no less!). About the best one could say for the whole sorry enterprise is that at least George Kennedy didn't sing.

And real singers wouldn't have helped. Diana & Marvin couldn't get on top of the staccato speediness of "The Things I Will Not Miss" from the reissue of their eponymous album. Not sure anyone could even though it's a catchy mofo. Behold:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0PZ1ovDepE

Ugh embedding disabled. Try this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTEqgn2SiOM

1. positively 4th street
2. can i get a witness (most underrated gaye song?)
3. walk on by
4. further up the road
5. doo wah fucking diddy

"But I gotta agree with Xgau that Bacharach/David signify little outside Warwick and vice-versa..." From Warwick's end, agreed; from Bacharach/David's, not at all. Here are a few non-Dionne hits written by Bacharach & David (these are my favourites, but there were many others): Gene Pitney's "Only Love Can Break a Heart," Jack Jones' "Wives and Lovers," Jackie DeShannon's "What the World Needs Now Is Love," Tom Jones' "What's New Pussycat?", Herb Alpert's "This Guy's in Love with You," B.J. Thomas's "Raindrops Keep Fallin' on My Head," the 5th Dimension's "One Less Bell to Answer," the Carpenters' "(They Long to Be) Close to You." Also, at least one instance where Dionne's great version of a song was eclipsed by an even greater version: Aretha's "I Say a Little Prayer." So I agree that the bulk of B&D's greatest songs belong to Dionne, but that's a pretty amazing group of records that hardly signifies little.

But I gotta agree with Xgau that Bacharach/David signify little outside Warwick and vice-versa (despite Darnielle's ace appreciation of 1970s/1980s Warwick in Marooned).

"Deja Vu"? "Heartbreaker"!!

Well...I'm an old guy; for me, Dionne's career pretty much ends with "Then Came You."

xxpost

Well, little in relation to those artists' peaks. As songs, I dig every one of those you've listed; as performances, they're just too supper club for my tastes (even though I DO like some of them). And I much prefer Dionne's "This Girl's in Love with You."

The Aretha B/D that may smash Dionne's is "April Fools." The typical Dionne oscillation between containment and intensity gives off as much energy as an Angry Samoans rant. But the typical tasteless genius of Aretha makes for a transcendent outrageousness - not many songs can make me guffaw and tear up at the same time. I honestly don't know which I'd vote for in a poll.

as for "Deja Vu"? "Heartbreaker"!! - good songs, Wall of Tacky production that calls out for the dynamics of the B/D classics.

I don't want to seem like I'm nitpicking--you say yourself that you like all the non-Dionne singles I listed. But for what it's worth, I do consider more than half of them--Jackie DeShannon, Herb Alpert, B.J. Thomas, Carpenters, and Jack Jones--career peaks for those artists, and "One Less Bell to Answer" pulls up just barely behind "Wedding Bell Blues."

As SONGS, not performances per se.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

"Deja Vu" as a production is far from tacky – it splits the difference between supper club funk and Stax-inflected R&B (Isaac Hayes' name on the credit helps).

Speaking of which, I suppose we need a Dionne singles poll soon.

Kevin John Bozelka: Not that it matters, life's too short, but I really and truly don't know what you mean. "What the World Needs Now Is Love" is the best song Jackie DeShannon ever did, but she has other records that are superior performances of inferior songs? I'm lost.

Dionne's "Heartbreaker" has always been my very favorite "Heartbreaker," even in a world of Pat Benatars and Led Zeppelins. But then again, I've always loved "One Less Bell To Answer," too. (I'm not sure if I'm arguing with anybody here, or even what the question was -- haven't really been following along -- but I wanted to insert my probably irrelevant two cents anyway.)

clemenza, you can nitpick all you want cuz you're not being a jerk about it.

I never said "What the World Needs Now Is Love" was Jackie DeShannon's best song. I said I like those songs as songs but not those particular performances. So, for instance, I think "What the World Needs Now Is Love" is a great song but I'm not thrilled with DeShannon's performance of it. Or anything, really. I sold her Rhino best of. Do I hate her performance of it? No, of course not. But I bet Dionne does it better (not sure if she recorded it...she did, didn't she?).

I was really thinking of "One Less Bell to Answer" here. Gorgeous song but where Dionne would make your Porterhouse sizzle (did she record this one too?), Marilyn McCoo makes you send it back to the oven for rewarming. I still like The 5th Dimension song. Quite a bit, actually. Just wish Dionne (or Aretha or someone else) was singing it. Ya know?

As for the matter of best song by each artist, now that I think of it, I suppose "What the World Needs Now Is Love" IS the best song Jackie DeShannon ever did. But that's just that it - I never think of it cuz I'm not a fan. That goes double for Herb Alpert, B.J. Thomas, and Jack Jones. I do like The Carpenters' version of "Close to You" but Karen was a much savvier singer on "Rainy Days and Mondays" and I prefer "Superstar" as a song. Also, they did the best version of "Desperado" that I know (which I prefer to their "Close to You").

As for the others:

Herb Alpert - Dionne cuts him big time but I suppose this could be his best. I find him a very zzzzz vocalist, sorry.

B.J. Thomas - "Rock and Roll Lullaby" >>>>> "Raindrops"

Jack Jones - I'll take your word for it.

Gene Pitney - BUCKETS of better songs - "Every Breath I Take," "Town Without Pity," "Mecca," even the silly ass "The Man Who Show Liberty Valance" (and definitely "He's a Rebel" if that counts...prolly not, though) (also prefer " Only Love Can Break Your Heart"

The 5th Dimension - "Wedding Bell Blues," "Paper Cup," "Stoned Soul Picnic," maybe "(Last Night) I Didn't Get To Sleep At All" all better than "One Less Bell To Answer"

Tom Jones - I dig him and ok yeah I guess "What's New Pussycat?" is his best song...maybe "It's Not Unusual"

I think the confusion here is that B/D were a holdover from the great American songbook way of creating music where song/performance distinctions were much clearer. But it's a measure of how much they were a product of their times that they did their best work with one artist.

Fwiw, I think NO ONE topped Dionne Warwick for R&B singles in the 1960s - not Aretha Franklin, not Otis Redding, no one.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Wow does that Billy Ocean song stick out like the sorest of sore thumbs.

Dionne's "Heartbreaker" has always been my very favorite "Heartbreaker," even in a world of Pat Benatars and Led Zeppelins

Where would you rank Dolly's?

I'd rank them all: Dionne >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Benatar >> Zeppelin >> Dolly

KJB: Thanks for clarifying. I'm with you on some of those, not on others:

Jackie D.: For me, "What the World Needs Now" is one of the high points of the mid-60s. Can't imagine anyone improving on it. (Great use over the end credits of Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice.)

5th Dimension: I know they're kind of lightweight, but on "Wedding Bell Blues" and "One Less Bell," they're amazing. Again, can't be improved. (Love "Last Night" too.)

B.J. Thomas: I like "Lullaby" a lot, but not as much as "Raindrops."

Gene Pitney: I think Pitney has better songs too, although we don't point to the same ones. For me, "It Hurts to Be in Love," "Looking Through the Eyes of Love," and "Last Chance to Turn Around" are his greatest.

Jack Jones: Truthfully, the only thing I know by him is "Wives and Lovers." I love how it's used in GoodFellas.

Tom Jones: "It's Not Unusual" is his greatest, "Pussycat" next.

Carpenters: I waver: sometimes I name "Superstar" as my favourite, sometimes "Close to You." Not sure if I've heard Warwick's original or not. I can't imagine liking it more.

Anyway, to sum up, B&D did more than enough to my ears to count as a force outside of their work with Warwick.