"You already know how to play. Now play wrong and make THAT right": Jazz D-Bags Thread 2010

Title comes from something Monk told Ben Riley, which appears on page 351 of the Robin D.G. Kelley bio, originally reported an interview with Ken Micaleff.

Dang, I spelt the guys name wrong. It's Micallef.

2010! I've decided this is the year that I get more into recent jazz ... so d-bags, what should I get? This Vijay Iyer thing?

I love how these jazz thread titles are all Your Favorite Jazz Quote From a Jazz God

2010! I've decided this is the year that I get more into recent jazz ... so d-bags, what should I get? This Vijay Iyer thing?
Can't help you there. This is the year I only listen to stuff that's at least fifty years old.

damn it

i am beginning my year of more recent jazz by listening to lester young. we're off!

Hah, I was j/k, mostly. Haven't heard the latest Vijay Iyer, but have seen him a few times and he's always been good. He's a good writer too. I believe Hurting saw his regular drummer, Marcus Gilmore, a few days ago.

(Note to self and perhaps to others: don't start thread with long title while you have long screenname)

2009 albums I liked a lot:

Derek Bailey & Steve Noble, Out Of The Past (guitar/drums duos, recorded in 1999 and released 10 years later, very loud and skronky)
Erik Deutsch, Hush Money (groove stuff, kinda reminds me of solo Donald Fagen, only instrumental)
Wayne Escoffery, Uptown (straightahead sax-organ-guitar-drums funky hard bop)
Fire!, You Liked Me Five Minutes Ago (skronk plus electronics; sometimes quite loud, sometimes almost ambient)
Nobuyasu Furuya Trio, Bendowa (Ayler/Brötzmann-esque trio date led by a brand-new Japanese saxophonist)
Joe Morris, Wildlife (raucous sax-bass-drums stuff with Morris on bass)
Wadada Leo Smith, Spiritual Dimensions (two-disc set; one mostly acoustic, one very electric - four guitarists incl. Nels Cline)
Tyshawn Sorey, Koan (guitar-bass-drums trio, more Morton Feldman than Grant Green)
Chad Taylor, Circle Down (adventurous piano trio stuff)
The Thing, Bag It! (very loud, skronky sax-bass-drums trio)
David S. Ware Quartet, Live In Vilnius (this group's last ever live show, from 2007; awesome but vinyl-only)
Matt Wilson Quartet, That's Gonna Leave A Mark (fun, funky hard bop)

That should get you started.

i am only a dabbler, but i like both of vijay iyer's last two albums a lot. (marcus gilmore is a big reason why.) and nels cline's coward may or may not count as jazz qua jazz -- parts of it certainly do -- but anyone who still hasn't heerd it really oughta. speaking of which, i would like to hear that wadada leo smith. i would like to hear all of those, actually.

oh, and cuong vu -- i only have pure, what else should i get?

I've never heard any of Cuong Vu's solo stuff but his playing on Myra Melford's upcoming disc, The Whole Tree Gone, is excellent. It's coming out on Firehouse 12 sometime this month. (I'll have a piece on Melford in the next issue of Jazziz.)

thanks for the recommendations! so the david s. ware thing isn't even available as a download? other than derek bailey he's the only one I'm familiar with ...

2010 is the year I might try to start going to see Latin jazz, non-Latin jazz and non-jazz Latin at La Fonda Boricua, located on East 106 between Lex & 3. This month they are going to have, among others, Louis Hayes, Mulgrew Miller, and the top-ten-album-having Bobby Sanabria Big Band. http://www.fondaboricua.com/NN_calendar.php. Also check out their youtube page.

Or maybe don't check out the youtube page. The shakey hand-held video is giving my inner ear problems.

Ben Ratliff got the New York Times to shell out for another piece about how jazz and metal are secretly the same music. He's been beating that drum since the mid '90s. Which is fine; I'm hardly disagreeing with him. But jazz has been metal for 40 years - he acts like nobody's ever heard of Sonny Sharrock (with or without Last Exit).

another thing going totally against my "getting into new jazz 2010," but I've just discovered that Jelly Roll Morton's 8-disc library of congress recordings are available via amazon mp3 for $19.98! :D
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Library-Congress-Recordings/dp/B0011CZSHQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1262318587&sr=8-1

Where do you live tylerw? Do you live in NYC? As part of your program, you should just go to gigs and eliminate the middleman.

er no, I live in Colorado ... Denver occasionally gets halfway decent stuff, but not anywhere near what the coasts get. The Vanguard Jazz Orchestra is coming this month! Yay? Should I go?

Sure. And if you like them, tell me and maybe I'll check them out sometime.

jazz has been metal for 40 years - he acts like nobody's ever heard of Sonny Sharrock (with or without Last Exit).

probably are some metalheads who haven't, and probably are some sonny sharrock fans who are too snobby to listen to metal. i think ratliff's basically trying to evangelize to get those two niche audiences together (probably aimed more at jazz fans than metalheads, really, just because jazz fans are more likely to read ben ratliff).

i haven't heard that whole vijay ayer album, but it seems to be more accessible than blood sutra or whatever.

a friend's experimental jazz-ish band just got reviewed in the ny times: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/arts/music/04choice.html?emc=eta1

everyone in the trio is a motherfucker (incl. keith jarrett's son on bass)

everyone in the trio is a motherfucker (incl. keith jarrett's son on bass)

help! cannot get the image of keith jarrett's son and the son's mother, together on keith jarrett's son's base, outta my head now :/

JAZZ is metal.
tbh I'm glad he went with the over the top initial statement rather than what would have been the classic Arts & Leisure approach: "Jazz and Metal: The Same But Different." Which he kind of ended up doing anyway, but still.

i haven't heard that whole vijay ayer album, but it seems to be more accessible than blood sutra or whatever.

definitely. less abstract and brainy, more fun and funky.

er no, I live in Colorado ... Denver occasionally gets halfway decent stuff
Isn't there a really good trumpet player out of Denver named Ron Miles?

there is! http://www.sterlingcircle.com/Ron.html He is really good -- i last saw him play with Bill Frisell (who is also a Denver guy originally) out here. There is actually a decent scene of local musicians, but it sort of seems like every time you look one up, they're moving away! Miles has stuck it out, I guess.

I believe Hurting saw his regular drummer, Marcus Gilmore, a few days ago.

― the embed's too big without you (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 1 January 2010 23:36 (4 days ago) Permalink

Correct. I liked him although wasn't blown away. Granted I couldn't see him behind the organ, and also guitar/organ trio isn't really the best drummer vehicle.

really? i think drummers usually shine w/organ bass (elvin jones & larry young, bill stewart & larry goldings, brian blade & sam yahel).

I've seen some drummers do fine in that context, but maybe there's some danger of slipping into soul jazz cliches.

He is really good -- i last saw him play with Bill Frisell
Heard a live broadcast on the radio once and he played an amazing version of John Lennon's "Julia." Meant to see him when he passed through again but I couldn't make it.

Ron Miles's own CD Laughing Barrel (the only one I've heard, alas) is also really good.

The Lithuanian label, NoBusiness Records, that put out the David S. Ware Live in Vilnius double LP that I mentioned upthread is releasing a pretty amazing looking 3CD box by Jemeel Moondoc's 1970s band Muntu. It includes their first two albums, originally released on Moondoc's own label, and a previously unissued live date from 1975, plus a thick book with essays about the loft jazz scene, the Black Arts Movement, et cetera. More info here.

Friend of mine is going to this Winterfest thing tonight. Seems like a paid $30 for two-day pass.

2010! I've decided this is the year that I get more into recent jazz ... so d-bags, what should I get? This Vijay Iyer thing?

i have tragicomic and it's a fine listen. not sure to which Iyer you are referring

Vijay is playing at Winter Jazzfest tonight, actually: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/08/arts/music/08jazzfest.html

was referring to Historicity -- just cuz I saw the NY Times said it was one of the best jazz recordings of '09 ...

really? i think drummers usually shine w/organ bass (elvin jones & larry young, bill stewart & larry goldings, brian blade & sam yahel).

― hey trader joe's! i've got the new steely dan. (Jordan), Tuesday, January 5, 2010 2:30 PM Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I think it's more the guitar than the organ that's usually the drum-dampener for me. It's just such an unfiery, undynamic instrument. Honestly as a former jazz guitarist, I fucking hate the jazz guitar. Stupidest fucking instrument.

I could watch Brian Blade accompany a recorder for two hours though.

Oh man, I stopped by the 55 Bar on the way home on Friday and almost got into a fite with a guy who was talking about Clapton and the Grateful Dead.

Hurting, do you know who you sound like when you say you hate jazz guitar?

Answer: Sonny Sharrock.

ha

BTW I think I am in love with this woman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te9gBDT1J3c

Maybe I can get you into Martin Cohen's birthday party and introduce you.

j/k.

Was just looking at this new little Spanish language NYC handout called Pie Derecho and it had a small one page cheat sheat about Santeria and the various Orishas. It wasn't long ago that you weren't supposed to be teaching lay people about the bata, let alone on youtube.

I think a guy I know plays guitar with her

Then you must hate that guy because he plays jazz guitar.

What? She plays theramin too?

yeah fuck that guy

William Parker is releasing an album of Curtis Mayfield covers (going by the title anyway).

RIP

Ed Thigpen died in Kingdom Hospital in Copenhagen on January 13, 2010, after being ill for a long period of time.

looking for reviews of the parker curtis mayfield set (which is wonderful) that unperson mentioned, i found <a href="http://www.pointofdeparture.org/PoD31/PoD31MoreMoments4.html";>these,</a> which include a good review of the leimgruber/parker disc i mentioned above.

fie on nu-ilx

and on me

i've been looking into pi recordings, and i'm stunned by this 2009 steve lehman record -

http://www.pirecordings.com/cms/img/thumbs/pi30_270.jpg

steve lehman octet - travail, transformation, and flow

it's hard to know how to describe it because all the comparisons and influences i've read are accurate, but undersell it. it kind of feels like jazz that's actually influenced by modern classical (reich, a bunch, but maybe that's the vibes more than the harmonic ideas), electronic music, and rap (gza cover!) the way people are always saying things are, but in an integrated way—jazz that's conversant with those idioms (in the composition and the improvising, which it's hard to tell apart) instead of just borrowing some of their flavor.

the drummer is sick.

Saw Chad Taylor/Angelica Sanchez/Greg Ward/Sean Conly play to a nearly empty house at U. of the Streets last night. Greg Ward is a great young alto player who I had not heard before and I expect we'll be hearing more from. Whole band was great though.

I like the state of young jazz right now -- I mean this may just be my narrow/distorted perception, but it seems like things have pulled away both from 100% free/out playing and from young lion bop, and instead most younger players are choosing to continue the endless exploration of the vast space in between.

agreed, at this point it seems like everyone is fluent in basically all styles without having to make a big deal about it

I like that Lehman record a lot. His Dual Identity record with Rudresh Mahanthappa, from this year, is also great.

Re young players, I agree there are a bunch of really good people out there right now. The one caveat I would throw in, though, is that there are way too many players heavily indebted to Steve Coleman, and I really don't like that style (long-ass melody lines and weird meters, non-funky attempts at funk) at all. To get super-reductive for a minute, I prefer the young traditionalists on Posi-Tone, many of whom frequently step out in fascinating ways, to the post-Coleman, post-Threadgill players on Pi.

yeah, i saw that you listed it. i'm hoping to enjoy it, i liked mahanthappa's 'kinsmen'.

i had never heard coleman before recently. but i used to listen to dave holland a lot, and it's kind of refreshing to hear similar music that's less fussy about avoiding the blues (to use another unhappy reductive phrase).

given what you just said, what is it about the lehman record that does it for you? i would suppose it's like a lot of reviewers have noted, the jackie mclean thing. the blue note feel on the record is super strong. this year i've been listening a lot to andrew hill and sam rivers and others, and the lehman is kind of like those records without sounding anything less than contemporary.

agreed, at this point it seems like everyone is fluent in basically all styles without having to make a big deal about it

― bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Sunday, October 31, 2010 4:10 PM Bookmark

Yeah, I like the fact that it's become less common to see records promoted as "a unique blend of jazz and reggae" or whatever, while musicians seem actually to have become more comfortable seamlessly incorporating ideas from other styles.

what is it about the lehman record that does it for you? i would suppose it's like a lot of reviewers have noted, the jackie mclean thing. the blue note feel on the record is super strong.

That's exactly what it is; it reminds me of a lot of stuff by the Blue Note class of '64 (Sam Rivers, Andrew Hill, Jackie McLean, Grachan Moncur III, Bobby Hutcherson...).

Maybe I need to listen more, but I'm not wowed by the Chucho Valdes cd (it's getting lots of favorable reviews). The various musical tributes on it seem to formula for me. Chucho's quotes in this piece though make me wanna listen some more:

Meanwhile, Valdes has been busy touring the rest of the world, working with backup band the Afro-Cuban Messengers and writing a new batch of songs. The prolific composer was determined to create an album that would pay homage to the musicians who inspired him in his long career — including Austrian keyboardist and composer Joe Zawinul, the Marsalis family and Valdes' personal hero, John Coltrane.

"When Coltrane first played, he set a new standard for jazz music," Valdes said. "After that, the bar was high."

Valdes wrote the title track for his new record in the spirit of Coltrane. "'Chucho's Steps' is easily the most harmonically complicated song ever I've ever written, since it has 50 unrepeated bars," he explained. "After I recorded it, I wasn't even sure I could ever play it again."

There are also more personal hat-tips on the new disc, including a song for Valdes' son, Julian. "He's my youngest boy; he's only 3," the he explained. "He's a very musical child, though. When I played him his song, he listened very intently, then danced up and down and told me, 'That's for me. That's for me.'"

http://www.expressnightout.com/content/2010/10/chucho-valdes-chuchos-steps-warner-theatre.php

question: has anyone read last year's history of/introduction to jazz by gary giddins and scott deveaux? i'm curious how they handle post-1960 (especially post-1965 to present) jazz. i really like deveaux's book on bebop, but i don't know if i really need another retread of the first 50 years of jazz history.

what is it about the lehman record that does it for you? i would suppose it's like a lot of reviewers have noted, the jackie mclean thing. the blue note feel on the record is super strong.

I really, really like On Meaning by Lehman. I find it easier to listen to (the Octet record is almost too intense to follow).

I didn't know Amiri Baraka was on the Parker Mayfield thing!

he is and he's really good.

I wouldn't call his contribution "really good" as much as I'd call it "not a deal-breaker."

I'd heard the live in Rome record first, before the 2CD Mayfield thing came out. Baraka's on every track and at first I found it really annoying but now I love having him randomly belt out things during songs, I wouldn't want it any other way. I didn't realize it was Baraka though, I thought it was Parker.

Another somewhat under the radar recordings including Matthew Shipp:

http://www.amazon.com/Blink-Eye-Scanner/dp/B0041NZN2M/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1290657728&sr=1-1

Very similar palate to Equilibrium

Don't have time to read it right now but just hit this curious webpage: http://www.soundfountain.com/contemporary/contemporary.html, something about a Shelly Manne album with some interesting annotation.

makes me sad that no-one else seems to be picking up on what trioVD are doing at the moment

well I say that the press and a few jazz publications are all over it but it doesn’t seem to have crossed over that much which is a shame because I think a lot of people whose tastes veer more towards indie/rock/metal/hardcore/posthardcore/punk or whatever will find a lot to love in this stuff

their debut ‘fill it up with ghosts’ is on spotify...

guitar, sax and drums

ridiculous repetative grooves, that pointillst type thing, super complex but grooving lots and lots going on... err.. horizontally, those textures where the 100th time you listen to it you realise ‘oh right, there’s a pattern hidden in there that I hadn’t heard before’ every now and then they descend into something beautiful and open, or super heavy and metal or ‘jazz’

it can be a bit of headfuck at times because of the chaotic interplay between the guitar and the sax but that’s where the fun lies in listening for me. they keep the structures pretty simple and defined, which is one of their major strengths, because a lot of things become hooks and 'moments' that may have been lost in a free improvisation

bits of this fucking slay, shame the recording is a bit clean and shiny but ehh

they’re so much better live than on record, make sure you get out to see them if you can the few youtubes really don’t do them justice

the drummer, chris, is phenomenal, a real hard hitter but incredibly precise, so all you drum geeks should check it out

anyway, I think people should give it a go, I’d be interested in what other people think

this all sounds a bit fanboy doesn’t it? when I was studying a couple of these guys were doing their phds and I saw them all play in various formations, including the first trioVD stuff and they were always amazing but then I saw them in London last year and it was super interesting to see how far they’ve come and how the earlier stuff makes a lot more sense now

Overheard at the bar:

hairspray girl number 1 to barmaid - "We're leaving!"

hairspray girl 2 to barmaid - "If those 3 got on stage and started wanking it would be less offensive."

x-post- that Shelly Manne webpage is mostly about technical recording stuff-microphones and such

I just sent in my ballot for the Village Voice jazz critics' poll; here 'tis:

ALBUMS OF THE YEAR

1. Cecil Taylor/Tony Oxley, Ailanthus/Altissima (Triple Point)
2. David Weiss and Point of Departure, Snuck In (Sunnyside)
3. John Zorn, Ipsissimus (Tzadik)
4. Little Women, Throat (AUM Fidelity)
5. Dan Pratt Organ Quartet, Toe the Line (Posi-Tone)
6. Dave Holland Octet, Pathways (Dare2)
7. Amir ElSaffar/Hafez Modirzadeh, Radif Suite (Pi)
8. William Parker, I Plan to Stay a Believer: The Inside Songs of Curtis Mayfield (AUM Fidelity)
9. John Escreet, Don’t Fight the Inevitable (Mythology)
10. Exploding Star Orchestra, Stars Have Shapes (Delmark)

REISSUES OF THE YEAR
1. Henry Threadgill, The Complete Novus/Columbia Recordings of Henry Threadgill & Air (Mosaic)
2. Jemeel Moondoc, Muntu Recordings (NoBusiness)
3. John Carter/Bobby Bradford, Mosaic Select (Mosaic)

Gotta say, Matthew Shipp manages to sound like himself alone even when he's laying down a pretty standard vamp. I don't quite understand how that works, honestly.

unperson, isn't it unusual for you to like a John Zorn album, or have I gotten a mistaken impression of your view of his music?

Scanner with the Post Modern Jazz Quartet - Blink of an Eye

You could kind of call this an Equilibrium 2, though that would probably annoy Matthew Shipp and is definitely a little wrong. However, it does feature Shipp and Khan Jamal. Scanner, who I had never heard of before, provides some electronic embellishment. I haven't quite made up my mind about his contribution as sometimes it sounds like: "That's a nice jazz recording, but what's wrong with this CD?" But I haven't given a really good listen to it yet. What's a little scary is that I was pretty sure I would like this just from the audio clips, and for the most part I do.

flying lotus: now sitting at a laptop while dudes play jazz

http://vimeo.com/15070800

MIGUEL ATWOOD-FERGUSON

how do they know he's not just checking his facebook page while they're all working?

It is indeed unusual for me to like a Zorn record. I loved Naked City, loved Painkiller, but very little else I've ever heard has done much for me, especially Masada. I walked into Downtown Music Gallery one time and said to Bruce Gallanter (the proprietor and a major Zorn fan/friend), "Sell me on Masada. Play me the one disc you think nobody could hear and not be converted." He threw one on and it just left me 100 percent cold. But Ipsissimus is the 5th release by the Moonchild band, which consists of Mike Patton on vocals, Trevor Dunn on bass and Joey Baron on drums, with Zorn composing the pieces and conducting the performances, and occasionally playing sax. Marc Ribot plays guitar on two or three of their albums, too. I think Moonchild is Zorn's best band since Painkiller, and they're totally unsung. I'm considering trying to get a mag to let me do a big-ass article about the piece.

I know some stuff about how that Scanner/Post Modern Jazz Quartet disc came together, but I'm saving it for a story I'm writing. I'll let you know when and where it runs.

Thanks, I would be interested in that. I've never been too big on Zorn (except maybe as label curator), but I do likely some of the Book of Angels installments, especially the Erik Friedlander one, and to some extent the Uri Caine one. I don't get all the easy listening surf band stuff or whatever it is he is putting out lately, but I have never really liked his skronky stuff either. That old "Asian Bar Bands" CD is pretty good though.

I'm not sold on Mike Patton, so I think I'll probably pass on Moonchild.

RIP James Moody

Just saw that. RIP.

he was a nice guy

Third issue of Burning Ambulance came out yesterday. It's particularly jazz-heavy this time around. Contents:

- long profile of Anthony Braxton by Kurt Gottschalk
- profile of trumpeter/bandleader David Weiss by Clifford Allen
- profile of saxophonist Jon Irabagon by Hank Shteamer
- essay on the Moritz von Oswald Trio by Justin Farrar
- essay on 1960s Hollywood (including extensive discussion of the Monkees movie Head) by Phil Nugent
- a chapter from Jeff Wagner's prog-metal history, Mean Deviation
- a piece on how to compose for an orchestra, by an actual composer/music professor, Steve Hicken

Also, a bonus deal: If you buy all three issues in hard-copy format, and email burningambulance at gmail dot com telling me so, I will send you a Mediafire link to download the digital versions for free. There's a grandfather clause, too, if you've bought issues 1 and 2 upon release and now buy issue 3 you can also claim your three free PDFs.

Link to purchase

i like the mahanthappa/lehman album, but i couldn't find a copy of the mahanthappa/bunky green album, 'apex', until just recently, and it's really surprising. the blend of sounds and the songwriting and playing seem really fresh even though they seem traditional. like, something about the rhythmic concepts, and the harmonic language, i guess. very modern jazz, but without the same sheen of suavity or gentility that can come with it—brighter and more brash. lyrical but twisty and jagged. i love the voicing of the group as a whole—the recording and production are amazing.

Just got Orchestrion, Pat Metheny's 2010 album where he accompanies himself with an orchestra of mechanical robot instruments that he controls via MIDI from his guitar and computers. Dude makes me want to give up music sometimes.

Article with video: http://blogcritics.org/music/article/music-review-pat-metheny-orchestrion/page-3/

huh, and jason moran is on that mahanthappa/green disc. so i guess i'm into jason moran now.

R.I.P. Dr. Billy Taylor.

One track from that Rudresh Mahanthappa/Bunky Green album comes as a freebie with the NPR app. Makes me want to check the rest of it out.

This solo Bachar Mar-Khalife album is pretty good, but by no means all jazz or even jazzy. This is probably the most jazz cut:

Bachar Mar-Khalifé - Distance

(He's the son of Lebanese singer/composer/oudist Marcel Khalife.)

this thread has one of the only ILX mentions of cuong vu

i'm listening to the album "come play with me"

this is really interesting/cool stuff

I can't even find the 2012 thread. Did we ever start one?

i saw cuong vu at least ten years ago (i know i was underage and had to sneak in the back) in a milwaukee rock club with chris speed, jim black, and some other dudes. happy apple opened. amazing show.

sounds it.

Maybe you started it in the sandbox.

I think unperson started one somewhere.

wasn't me boss

Let's keep this one going.
Saw Jason Moran last night, dude is so goddamn good. solid solid trio too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcjdTSaJuPU