should i give the grateful dead a chance?

Do not give the Grateful Dead a chance. I have given the Grateful Dead several chances, and they continue to bore me solid. Friends say "Oh, you're into 60s garage, listen to their first album..." nope, sorry, it's still uninspired hippie stoner jams. Friends say "Oh, you like spacerock, listen to this or that experimental jam album..." nope, sorry, it's still uninspired hippie stoner jam drivel. Friends say "Oh, you have to listen to it on acid to get it." I listened to it on acid. It only stretched the INTERMINABLE boredom to the breaking point where it was a relief to sit and listen to radio static afterwards.

I think that Deadheadism is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If you have it, you will like them. If you do not have it, then no ammount of "Dude, no, you have to hear this most ultimate jam session that they did on this super-rare collectible live bootleg out-take from 1973..." in the world will ever convince you to find even a modicum of interest.

I know that calling a band "boring" is verboten on this forum. The Dead are not just boring, they are interminable, self indulgent, they noodle, they wibble, they do not drone in a transcendant manner, no they ANNIHILATE any sense of enjoyment of music to the point where I would rather listen to elevator music rather than the Dead. In fact, that is what they are. They are the elevator music of hippie stoner jam psychedelia.

Do not waste your time. Sing along with the hoover instead.

A: God this band are shit.

(Keith Richards tells that gag - which is a bit rich considering that 'Can You Hear Me Knocking' sounds just like the Dead...)

I think they're worth checking out rather than applying some knee jerk reaction. But obviously lots of people don't agree.

Did you even read my fucking post? This is not some knee jerk reaction. This is a carefully thought out aesthetic decision that I have reached after repeated exposure and more consideration that I would give to most bands who repeatedly bombarded me with shit.

Everything about the Grateful Dead is repulsive - the music (yes I *can* judge them on a minute or so), the fans, the mythology.... They're a crystallisation of everything I dislike in music.

The thing is, I love the IDEA of the Dead - the endless noodling jams, those moments of improvisation when they reach the mythical 'zone', the community of fans, all those bootlegs to tick off and collect, the Verlaine-esque sound of Garcia's gtr, the vast quantities of drugs etc etc.

But - their recs just never seem to live up to the rep - before I ever listened to them, I imagined they were like the most mega-cosmic freak out group of all time, but when I finally did spin a few of their albs all I got was wimpy country-lite w/ really terrible singing. They rarely seem to rock out in any meaningful way, their cover versions are just AWFUL (esp. the 'bluesy' Pigpen-led stuff) and Hunter's lyrics are hippy bilge.

Without wishing to sound too alt snooty, Ghost and esp. Acid Mothers Temple do the whole folk-psych rock jam thing w/ so much more passion, imagination and freaky fun.

No, I don't think I recall the Dead ever having extended sax solos in any of their songs.

You obviously never heard Branford Marsalis jam with them, then.

I knew when I saw this thread appear it would be full of the usual "the Dead are the worst band ever" stuff... they seem to be one of a small handful of bands it's ok to heap your worst insults on around here. So I'll do my usual and say yes "American Beauty" and "Workingman's Dead" are full of concise, well-written pop songs, their mid 70's LPs on their own label are amazing ("Blues for Allah" is my pick), and as great a guitarist as Tom Verlaine is, Garcia is better. He's a better vocalist, too. I know that for whatever reason the Dead are a band many people will just never permit themselves to like, so I expect to make no converts.

I think SY owe a lot to the dead in the way that they'd start a song and then they would use that as a basis for a jam and get back to the song.

The singing isn't to everyone's tastes but at a time when ppl are listening to Thom Yorke that isn't such a big problem.

For myself, they don't trouble my interest, and I can't say they will be anytime soon.

You obviously never heard Branford Marsalis jam with them, then.

Nope, and although I'm sure he's, uh, "funkier" than his brother, I can't imagine his jams with the Dead approach the instrumental break of "Can You Hear Me Knocking" (which was, after all, used by many a black "urban" radio station in the 1970s as promo music). Anyway, the point was that the claim that "Can You Hear Me Knocking" sounds like the Dead is way, way off-base.

''I think that Deadheadism is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If you have it, you will like them. If you do not have it, then no ammount of "Dude, no, you have to hear this most ultimate jam session that they did on this super-rare collectible live bootleg out- take from 1973..." in the world will ever convince you to find even a modicum of interest.''

it's bollocks! any band will have it's fans and haters but to dismiss it as 'chemical imbalance' is bullshit. Plus the 'annihalate' line (see dave q's ans).

Personally, the only song of theirs that I can instantly recognize is "Touch Of Grey". I'm fine with that.

If you're still hell bent on checking out the Dead, I'd start with any of the Dick's Picks live releases from 1972 or earlier. Even then, listening to them are like trying to dig for gold in a mine that's been completely played out. There's a lot of shovelling involved for very little payoff.

How is the Grateful Dead any different?

There must just be a neurotransmitter that makes people like SHIT, that is the explanation.

harsh but probably true

It certainly gave them more flexibility in those years, allowing them to turn the ship a lot more quickly than in later years.

“turn the ship”, that’s a great way of putting it

RIP Phil Lesh

Yeah, bumped a Phil thread for that when I saw it. RIP, had no idea he was even close to this.

oh man

rip phil, one of a kind

I just changed into a tank-top and cut-off shorts in solidarity, may only the bravest of you fans come and join me.

Such a long, long time to be gone
And such a short time to be there

damn RIP phil! I feel like his bass playing is the reason why most dead cover bands miss the mark — he had such a weird/singular sensibility. impossible to replicate.

yeah I felt like I started to get his deal when I learned that his original background was in trumpet and music theory

RIP Phil, hope you and Jerry are grooving in the spheres.

RIP! Their most important player after Jerry imo. Here is where I kick myself once again for spacing out and missing a scheduled phone interview with him sometime in the late 90s.

xp - yeah, he was really deep into composition and theory stuff, he's the one who (thankfully, imho) pushed to bring Ned Lagin on tour with them to play Seastones to a crowd of sometimes confused hippies.

he studied with luciano berio at berkeley, which is amazing. steve reich was his classmate

RIP. maybe this finally motivate me to make my "Lesh is More" shirt.

Huge RIP.

I feel like his bass playing is the reason why most dead cover bands miss the mark — he had such a weird/singular sensibility. impossible to replicate.

― tylerw, Friday, October 25, 2024 3:57 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah totally. The way I hear it Phil, Jerry, and Bob were each playing lead in their own ways, and the way they intertwined was what made the Dead special

otm

^^^

Phil and Friends was the first Dead related show I ever went to. RIP. It was this show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guyhRMGsyG4

Only time I saw Phil was Jazzfest in New Orleans in 2002. I was only vaguely interested in the Dead at the time. I watched a bit and left early to catch Abbey Lincoln iirc.

Met a friend for tea yesterday, she said she'd be late because a family friend had just died.

Damn now I gotta listen to the animal collective song again and weep silently

phil is, i'd honestly say, probably the reason i like the dead. one of the best white bass players in rock... i like him even better than jack casady.

archive.org is still down and god knows it'll ever be back... in the meantime here's one of my fave underrated phil performances, from an early '73 show that only circulates in fragmentary form. this is the part release officially on one of the "30 days of dead" releases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA0KZwRnAWY

i fell for his bass when i was a kid listening to the live '72 jack straw that was on the what a long strange trip 2XLP. the first dead thing i ever owned. such a great way in too that comp. cuzza the variety. the bass was so pretty! also i noticed it as a voice on the song. not just a part of a rhythm section.

Probably my favorite Phil moment is 12/2/73 when the enter the jam section of PITB and Phil plays this simple descending sequence that announces to the world “forget what you just heard, we are headed for deep space” and they do just that, even a little deeper than usual. Love it so much.

live, he's so frustrating to my ears but enjoyable somehow? just... why go for that run?! but i put on AB today while i was making dinner for my kids and that is flat out impeccable, thoughtful playing to the songs.

I mean Garcia is obviously the most important member but Lesh so critical to the groove that makes them the GD.

Lesh is the main thing that gives them a groove at all imo, not that he was only a groove player but he had a way more rooted sense of where the 1 was than their drummers ever did.

Looks like archive.org is up here. Had me worried for a moment there.
Wasn't Lesh not the youngest when they started. So good innings.
Great bassist, quite good memoir too though not read it in 19 years. Think I had it in Rossport the weekend that we were hit by the tail end of Katrina. So I was reading it in my wind wrecked tent the next morning.

Dead cover band I saw Saturday was fun. They started with an acoustic set of vaguely Halloween (and moon) themed songs, from “Friend of the Devil” to Old And In The Way’s “Midnight Moonlight” to Neil Young’s “Harvest Moon” gradually adding electric guitar and keys until they finished with a pretty spot on version of MJ’s “Thriller!”

Second and third sets replicated Wembley 10/31/90 so nice lengthy “H/S/F” and “Scarlet/ Fire” medleys and lovely”Roses” and “Stella.”

Help on the Way
Slipknot!
Franklin's Tower
Little Red Rooster
Loose Lucy
Me and My Uncle
Big River
It Must Have Been the Roses
Masterpiece
Bird Song
Promised Land

Scarlet Begonias
Fire on the Mountain
Truckin'
He's Gone
drums
All Along the Watchtower
Stella Blue
Around and Around
Good Lovin'

Werewolves of London

Oh and of course they added “Box of Rain.” Touching.

The *other* all-time-great Lesh song that the Dead actually nailed in the studio:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5FN06LFfHk

And Phil's There and Back Again album, with Warren Hayes and the Friends, always hits the spot when I get into that Dead/Family space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqcsOJIm-PU

On Halloween, a really great cover band is playing the dive bar walking distance from me (Long Island) doing the entire 10/31/79 show from Nassau Coliseum. I'm really disappointed I'm going to be out of town. They did a great job covering Dylan's Live 1975 show a few weeks ago.

What's the best Dead biography covering the early years? Is it A Long Strange Trip?

As I said on the thread before, I thought the Rock Scully book was the most entertaining.

I loved the Bear Owsley bio.

Phil's book is interesting wrt the early years, given his background and classical music connections. Not a huge part of the book, mind, but worth reading for a slightly askew take at the band's formative years.

When I first read your first sentence thought you were talking about another guy with the same name and was a bit puzzled.

A Long Strange Tnip by Dennis McNally was pretty good. as were the individual memoirs.

This is not answering PBKR’s question but I was pleasantly surprised by Fare Thee We’ll. The post-Jerry story is fascinating and kinda gives more insight into these guys as IRL people than anything else I’ve read. Makes Phil look like a jerk which I did not see coming.

that one is legit that dude was close with the band

I wonder if he stayed close w Phil after that book?

This is All a Dream We Dreamed: An Oral History of the Grateful Dead by Blair Jackson and David Gans is very readable and a good companion to the McNally bio. Most Dead histories and memoirs always seem particularly strong on the early years, perhaps because the final years were so dispiriting.

The big coffee table book, The Grateful Dead: The Illustrated Trip, seems to be out of print but it was my first guide to the Dead and was very helpful in highlighting special shows/recordings to hunt down.

Hank (father of Courtney Love) Harrison's The Grateful Dead was the first non-fiction account of the Dead, and Harrison was in their circle early on.

Growing Up Dead by Peter H Conners is a fun memoir of being a teenage Deadhead.

the fiction being Tom Wolfe?

LOL was probably an overly deadsplaining use of 'non-fiction' there, can't think of any fictionalised Dead narratives, apart from perhaps Lily Tomlin's turn in Flirting With Disaster.

2nd the Blair Jackson / Gans oral history (along Jackson's Gear Book if you have a passing interest in GD gear). Here is a full bibliography, which also has a brief description of each.

I've never read either of the Harrison books but curious to search them out – I know he is estranged from Courtney Love / wrote a whole book about his daughter murdering Kurt Cobain, but it's funny to me that they're both incorrigible gossips.

I haven't read it yet, my copy just arrived, but there's another piece too - The Silver Snarling Trumpet was long considered a "lost" Robert Hunter manuscript that digs deeper into pre-Dead days of Garcia and Hunter. The Deadcast episodes about it have me anxious to dig in over the holidays. From the publisher:

So wrote Robert Hunter in The Silver Snarling Trumpet, both a novelistic singular work of art and the missing piece of the Grateful Dead origin story. In these pages, readers are privy to the early days of Hunter, Garcia, and their cohorts, who sit at coffee shops passing around a single cup of bottomless coffee because they lacked the funds for more than one. Follow these truth-seeking souls into the stacks at Kepler’s Books, renting instruments at Swain’s House of Music, and through the countryside on mind-expanding road trips. Witness impromptu jams, inspired intellectual pranks, and a dialogue that is, by turns, amusing and brilliant and outrageous. Hunter shares his impressions of his first gig with Garcia for a college audience, along with descriptions of his most intense dreams and psychedelic explorations. All of it, enlivened by Hunter’s visionary spirit and profound ideas about creativity and collaboration.

Is there a good Grateful Dead compilation of their best, essential studio recordings? I already have Workingman's Dead and American Beauty in addition to a handful of live recordings, but I'm still not the biggest Dead fan and don't really see myself buying anymore of their albums, so I was hoping for a good comp that scoops up the best. Maybe a double CD set, or a triple if it's warranted (especially if they have epic tracks that eat up a lot of disc space), but probably not more than that.

You probably want the double CD from 2015, simply "Best of the Grateful Dead." Covers the entire range of the band and all in the studio, unlike their other Best-Ofs from the 70s.