should i give the grateful dead a chance?

Do not give the Grateful Dead a chance. I have given the Grateful Dead several chances, and they continue to bore me solid. Friends say "Oh, you're into 60s garage, listen to their first album..." nope, sorry, it's still uninspired hippie stoner jams. Friends say "Oh, you like spacerock, listen to this or that experimental jam album..." nope, sorry, it's still uninspired hippie stoner jam drivel. Friends say "Oh, you have to listen to it on acid to get it." I listened to it on acid. It only stretched the INTERMINABLE boredom to the breaking point where it was a relief to sit and listen to radio static afterwards.

I think that Deadheadism is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If you have it, you will like them. If you do not have it, then no ammount of "Dude, no, you have to hear this most ultimate jam session that they did on this super-rare collectible live bootleg out-take from 1973..." in the world will ever convince you to find even a modicum of interest.

I know that calling a band "boring" is verboten on this forum. The Dead are not just boring, they are interminable, self indulgent, they noodle, they wibble, they do not drone in a transcendant manner, no they ANNIHILATE any sense of enjoyment of music to the point where I would rather listen to elevator music rather than the Dead. In fact, that is what they are. They are the elevator music of hippie stoner jam psychedelia.

Do not waste your time. Sing along with the hoover instead.

A: God this band are shit.

(Keith Richards tells that gag - which is a bit rich considering that 'Can You Hear Me Knocking' sounds just like the Dead...)

I think they're worth checking out rather than applying some knee jerk reaction. But obviously lots of people don't agree.

Did you even read my fucking post? This is not some knee jerk reaction. This is a carefully thought out aesthetic decision that I have reached after repeated exposure and more consideration that I would give to most bands who repeatedly bombarded me with shit.

Everything about the Grateful Dead is repulsive - the music (yes I *can* judge them on a minute or so), the fans, the mythology.... They're a crystallisation of everything I dislike in music.

The thing is, I love the IDEA of the Dead - the endless noodling jams, those moments of improvisation when they reach the mythical 'zone', the community of fans, all those bootlegs to tick off and collect, the Verlaine-esque sound of Garcia's gtr, the vast quantities of drugs etc etc.

But - their recs just never seem to live up to the rep - before I ever listened to them, I imagined they were like the most mega-cosmic freak out group of all time, but when I finally did spin a few of their albs all I got was wimpy country-lite w/ really terrible singing. They rarely seem to rock out in any meaningful way, their cover versions are just AWFUL (esp. the 'bluesy' Pigpen-led stuff) and Hunter's lyrics are hippy bilge.

Without wishing to sound too alt snooty, Ghost and esp. Acid Mothers Temple do the whole folk-psych rock jam thing w/ so much more passion, imagination and freaky fun.

No, I don't think I recall the Dead ever having extended sax solos in any of their songs.

You obviously never heard Branford Marsalis jam with them, then.

I knew when I saw this thread appear it would be full of the usual "the Dead are the worst band ever" stuff... they seem to be one of a small handful of bands it's ok to heap your worst insults on around here. So I'll do my usual and say yes "American Beauty" and "Workingman's Dead" are full of concise, well-written pop songs, their mid 70's LPs on their own label are amazing ("Blues for Allah" is my pick), and as great a guitarist as Tom Verlaine is, Garcia is better. He's a better vocalist, too. I know that for whatever reason the Dead are a band many people will just never permit themselves to like, so I expect to make no converts.

I think SY owe a lot to the dead in the way that they'd start a song and then they would use that as a basis for a jam and get back to the song.

The singing isn't to everyone's tastes but at a time when ppl are listening to Thom Yorke that isn't such a big problem.

For myself, they don't trouble my interest, and I can't say they will be anytime soon.

You obviously never heard Branford Marsalis jam with them, then.

Nope, and although I'm sure he's, uh, "funkier" than his brother, I can't imagine his jams with the Dead approach the instrumental break of "Can You Hear Me Knocking" (which was, after all, used by many a black "urban" radio station in the 1970s as promo music). Anyway, the point was that the claim that "Can You Hear Me Knocking" sounds like the Dead is way, way off-base.

''I think that Deadheadism is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If you have it, you will like them. If you do not have it, then no ammount of "Dude, no, you have to hear this most ultimate jam session that they did on this super-rare collectible live bootleg out- take from 1973..." in the world will ever convince you to find even a modicum of interest.''

it's bollocks! any band will have it's fans and haters but to dismiss it as 'chemical imbalance' is bullshit. Plus the 'annihalate' line (see dave q's ans).

Personally, the only song of theirs that I can instantly recognize is "Touch Of Grey". I'm fine with that.

If you're still hell bent on checking out the Dead, I'd start with any of the Dick's Picks live releases from 1972 or earlier. Even then, listening to them are like trying to dig for gold in a mine that's been completely played out. There's a lot of shovelling involved for very little payoff.

How is the Grateful Dead any different?

There must just be a neurotransmitter that makes people like SHIT, that is the explanation.

"the feedback with "baby" over the p.a. is the artiest thing I've heard them do, it's abrasive and seething"

Deflatormouse, I'm about to recommend a ridiculous thing for people thinking about getting into the Dead, but you might enjoy the the 9/22/1993 version of Space with David Murray. It's very similar to a lot of 90's free jazz.

https://archive.org/details/gd93-09-22.sbd.yubah.565.sbeok.shnf/gd93-9-22d3t1.shn

lol thank you, that is a find. It doesn't sound a lot like the free jazz I saw in the 90's, it almost sounds like an unreasonable parody thereof. That hollow, sugar cane synth preset is amazing, it's like fairy dust. The sonics here are so DI, clean and polished, like the acoustic gtr on Wharf Rat sounds oppressively bright and in your face and this is so mismatched to their more "organic" sense of timing and etc, i love it

Ya I don't use the term "90's free jazz" necessarily as a complement. Its just that the midi era of the Dead sometimes reminds of like John Zorn's Cobra or like 80's University of Illinois computer music records.

80's University of Illinois computer music

yeah I had a similar thought
it's a real find :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKP2f05TcOk

Not a great recording, but here's David Murray with the Jerry Garcia Band on 11/12/93. In for a penny, in for a pound!

This version of Standing On The Moon is one of my faves (Boston 092693):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fswd-ZRp7_I

That is really nice! I don't know that song.

I'm a weird massive Dead Head who has not explored too much beyond 77. I managed to listen to my first 91 show in its entirety. Some of the post-81 keyboard and guitar sounds are an affront to god.

That's me as well. It's odd to think there are Dead setlist staples/classics that I'm unfamiliar with because I haven't listened to either shows or albums past the 1970s. I'm sure I'll get around to it eventually but it's hard to imagine that I'll dig MIDI or the deterioration of vocals.

Listen to the video just posted. It's really good.

I've been listening to all of the DPs in order. I had previously heard a lot of them but definitely missed or ignored some. I am also reading A Long Strange Trip at the same time so it's been fun to fill in my Dead experience and give me a fuller appreciation for them.

I was listening to a nice recording of 11/07/69 at the Fillmore this morning, really nice dose of primal Dead. Love hearing Phil's repeated nerdy calls out, "Bear, there is a 300 cycle hum". But the meat is the "Dark Star > Uncle John's Band Jam > Dark Star > Cryptical > Drums > The Other One" stretch in the back half, just great jamming.

I have to check that out!

The next night is DP 16, one of my favorite Dead shows ever, which goes Dark Star>The Other One>Dark Star>Uncle John's Band Jam>Dark Star>St. Stephen>The Eleven>Caution>Main Ten Jam>Caution>Feedback.

When I finish my DP run, I am going to do a deep dive into 68-69.

“Saint of Circumstance” played during NFL on Fox commercial transition : )

“Shakedown” on at yr bar

https://i.postimg.cc/L8r85bTN/IMG-0127.jpg

and another, step back

GRATEFUL DEAD
Enjoying The Ride
Limited Edition 60-CD Boxed Set Celebrates The Grateful Dead's 60th Anniversary With Unreleased Performances From 20 Legendary Venues
Available Exclusively From Dead.net On May 30

The Grateful Dead celebrates its diamond 60th anniversary this year with ENJOYING THE RIDE, a sweeping 60-CD collection that maps an epic cross-country road trip along the "Heady Highway" with stops at storied venues where the music, the moment, and the magic of the Grateful Dead reliably converged.

Spanning 25 years of legendary live performances, this expansive collection spotlights defining shows from 1969 to 1994 at 20 venues that consistently inspired the band to new heights—Winterland, Frost Amphitheatre, Madison Square Garden, and Hampton Coliseum, among them. Whether playing the intimate confines of Fillmore West or beneath the open skies at Red Rocks, the Grateful Dead never played the same show twice. ENJOYING THE RIDE is a thrilling testament to that adventurous spirit.

With the exception of a few tracks from earlier releases, virtually all of the music on ENJOYING THE RIDE is previously unreleased, spanning more than 450 tracks and over 60 hours of music. Of the 20 shows in the collection, 17 are presented in full, with some featuring additional material from the same venue. The remaining three—Fillmore West, Fillmore East, and Boston Music Hall—are curated from multiple performances at each venue, capturing key moments on those legendary stages.

ENJOYING THE RIDE will be available exclusively from Dead.net on May 30. This 60-CD boxed set is limited to 6,000 individually numbered copies.

ENJOYING THE RIDE
Show List

Avalon Ballroom, San Francisco, CA (4/5/69) – Cassette
Fillmore West, San Francisco, CA (6/5/69)
Fillmore West, San Francisco, CA (6/7/69)
Fillmore West, San Francisco, CA (6/8/69)
Capitol Theatre, Port Chester, NY (2/24/71)
Capitol Theatre, Port Chester, NY (2/20/71)
Fillmore East, New York, NY (4/25/71)
Fillmore East, New York, NY (4/27/71)
Boston Music Hall, Boston, MA (9/15/72)
Boston Music Hall, Boston, MA (9/16/72)
Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum, Uniondale, NY (3/16/73)
Winterland, San Francisco, CA (3/20/77)
Philadelphia Spectrum, Philadelphia, PA (5/13/78)
Red Rocks Amphitheatre, Morrison, CO (8/12/79)
Alpine Valley Music Theatre, East Troy, WI (8/23/80)
Alpine Valley Music Theatre, East Troy, WI (7/11/81)
Hartford Civic Center, Hartford, CT (3/14/81)
Hampton Coliseum, Hampton, VA (5/1/81)
Frost Amphitheatre, Stanford University, Palo Alto, CA (8/20/83)
Greek Theatre, University of California, Berkeley, CA (7/13/84)
Henry J. Kaiser Convention Center, Oakland, CA (11/21/85)
Henry J. Kaiser Convention Center, Oakland, CA (11/22/85)
Madison Square Garden, New York City, NY (9/16/87)
Deer Creek Music Center, Noblesville, IN (7/15/89)
Oakland Coliseum Arena, Oakland, CA (12/27/89)
Shoreline Amphitheatre, Mountain View, CA (5/12/91)
Capital Centre, Landover MD (3/17/93)
Capital Centre, Landover MD (9/15/82)
Boston Garden, Boston, MA (10/3/94)

Yeah, some good shows on that list but JFC, $600.

too much 80s imho

Amazing to me that (if) there is a market for these endless repackagings of music that’s already widely available. Who buys these things?

(That said I love some mid-80s dead, esp 1985, when Jerry is playing hard but sounds like he’s on death’s doorstep. Greek 1985 hits that spot hard for me. That She Belongs to Me is so perfect)

Holy cow

I think Alpine '80 and Frost '83 are uncirculated SBDs?

fuck I'm gonna get in so much trouble when I buy this

I'd really love to hear the thoughts of people unfamiliar with the band who hear like, mid 80s tapes right off the bat.

Yes to that. Many of the soundboards from that period are crappy tho so you’d want to find a tasty audience recording to truly capture the dawn of the short shorts era.

I did like the 1986 show I saw! this set just seems a little heavy on later years to me.

That's actually kind of what attracts me to it, tbh. The '70s have been so well covered over the years that it's nice for a deeper dive into the Brent years and some of these are promising shows.

I was kind of hoping for an '84/'85 Greek box set in a more digestible size someday, but not sure that'll ever happen.

This doesn't seem to preclude my #1 wishlist item though, the '69 Ark box.

I'm listening to the 2/15/73 show from Madison this morning and it's a great show worth checking out anyway, but of most interest is the 40 minutes of "Dark Star > Eyes" in the second set.

After the "Dark Star" first verse, Phil steps up for a big solo and this is one of the few recordings where you can really hear his quadrophonic bass thing, the notes from different strings are coming in from different distances and depths. It's so cool to hear.

oh, ya I'm more excited for (usually early) 80s shows these days. I've heard so many 70s shows. I guess I'm wondering if for new fans the prior entry points like American Beauty, Skeletons from the Closet, Live Dead etc aren't as relevant as they used to be. I guess the irony is I'd personally be described as a touchhead lol

I'd really love to hear the thoughts of people unfamiliar with the band who hear like, mid 80s tapes right off the bat.

Terrapin studio so smelly in a good way

Free Dead channel on Sirius FM through April.

If you don’t pay for the channel, which I don’t.

i heard it's a big day for the dire wolf

I'd really love to hear the thoughts of people unfamiliar with the band who hear like, mid 80s tapes right off the bat.

― encino morricone (majorairbro)

i mean this was the dead i first became familiar with, i loathed them for decades

i was also living on the east coast at the time... idk the dead clicked a lot more with me when i moved to the west coast. they were really fucked up people and once i moved out here i understood better the particular form of fucked-up-ness. i don't mean that in a negative way. i'm a fucked up person too, mostly not in the ways that they were fucked up but close enough that i can appreciate them.

I kinda wish there was more writing out there on their fucked-upedness in the 80s. Their origin story has been covered to death and the obsessive deadhead in me wants to know just how weird they were from like 80 till Touch of Grey hit big.

Yeah, I kinda hope the Deadcast gets there eventually, maybe they can dig more in to that with the upcoming box set new season.

I had a half hour drive last night listening to the Dead channel and Dark Star>>>Morning Dew took the entire trip. I had to laugh because it’s one of the things that really tests my patience with them.

Was it at least a decent Jerry vocal performance? Those are two from their live catalog where if Jerry starts off rough it just ruins the rest of the song.

Yeah, Winterland 10.18.74. Hard to hear a lot of the subtleties vs. road noise in my car though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpKQOvlDr-s

Some other f3cker’s crime

if you had asked me when I got up this morning "does the National collaborating with the Brooklyn Youth Chorus sound like a good idea" I would have said no, but that was before I heard the Terrapin Station cover from Day of the Dead

i was listening to Shellac yesterday and i'm completely convinced the Dead would've done a serviceable rendition of "Prayer to God" in a vein similar to "Friend of the Devil"

xp I’m not usually a huge National fan but their tracks on that comp are spectacular. Peggy-O, Morning Dew, and the instrumental Dessner guitar piece are all highlights alongside that Terrapin

So I always knew that, just before Workingman's Dead, Robert Hunter had written Eagle Mall, an album-length suite: quest narrative, historical & mythic references, circular structure, etc. Garcia read it and said "alright man, but come on, we're a dance band for god's sake!" so it was back to the drawing board, and ultimately Workingman's Dead, American Beauty, Garcia, Ace.

Not until the other week ago did I know that, after he and Jerry finished (well, "finished") Terrapin Station, Hunter dug Eagle Mall out of his archives, revised it, set it to music, and played it to close his solo shows in 1980 (like this one).

Hunter was never much of a melodist (with exceptions -- It Must Have Been the Roses, Book of Daniel, Prodigal Town) and sure enough, the melodies of Eagle Mall aren't its strong suit, but it's a pretty awesome piece anyway. I'm feeling a little tempted to learn it, record it, and adorn it myself... with other instruments adding melodic flourishes it could come out pretty great.

It's a damn pity that Garcia tuned out of writing in the 1980s, because Hunter's ambitions stayed heroic. Even without Garcia music, Amagamalin Street is fantastic, backed by a great bar band of mid-'80s survivors.

I'm on a Dead kick, which for me extends to Furthur. The thing I love best about the Dead is the songbook, and Furthur went, err, further than any other post-1995 project to celebrate and EXPAND that songbook. It still feels dreamlike to remember that Robert Hunter really wrote another several songs for Weir and Lesh so late in the game, despite aaaall that water under the bridge. Even John K got two solid Hunter co-writes out of the Furthur years. And the band sounds so energetic! and happy! and glad to roam!

(written while listening to a great AUD of Set 2 of their September 28th, 2013 show)

"alright man, but come on, we're a dance band for god's sake!"

Speaking of undanceable, the other night I realized there are a number of Dead songs I am basically unfamiliar with, one of them being “Victim or the Crime.” I also don’t think I’ve ever intentionally heard anything from Bruce Hornsby’s tenure in the band. So I listened to Dick’s Pick’s 17 (9/25/91) and set 2 is one long medley opening with “Victim,” followed by “Crazy Fingers” (also pretty unfamiliar to me,) a super spacy “Playing in the Band” and “Terrapin” and I’m thinking damn, this is really weird and proggy.

Coming out of drums/space they cover McCartney’s “That Would Be Something,” which I’ve never heard, before looping back into a reprise of “Playing.” It’s objectively not one of their best shows, but it held my attention longer than they often do, which for that late in their career was surprising to me.

https://archive.org/details/gd1991-09-25.149681.sbd.cm.miller.flac16

There’s a deadhead theory that they played Victim bc they knew lots of fans hated it and they wanted to get a rise out of folks. I have no idea if there’s any truth to that. i

I saw them 2x in the Hornsby era and their first day was incredible and the second day might have been a really off day (it was extremely hot/miserable to everyone's credit).

xp - I thought Day Job was the one they kept playing to antagonize their followers.

Both could be true I guess, one bobby song & one Jerry song, both about subjects that deadheads would likely have wanted to avoid thinking about.