Air at Shepherd's Bush Empire 25.04.01 - I say it's prog rock and I say the hell with it!

So far, the feebback on the gig has been negative, but I couldn't go so I can't say (seemed a bit of an industry event). But I can appreciate the difficulties in translating their refined, studio sound into a live performance. How can they contrive widescreen- surround-hi-fi-luxury unless they're really proficient live, and I've never heard about their live gigs before.

Moon Safari can't have been that great. I appear to alone in loving it so much, (a mystery to my friends).

some bloke came up to me on blackstock road, and gave me 2 Air tickets. wasn't able to go, so gave them to a friend.

moon safari is a grand record, though. and i will buy the new one

No one's ever come up to *me* on Blackstock Road and given me anything so good as two Air tickets. What's your secret, gareth?

A friend of mine paid £40 to a tout to get in and was a bit disappointed. Prog-savvy friends of mine point out how some much some of the Virgin Suicides soudtrack sounds like 'Dark Side of the Moon' but I don't care. Air are cool and Pink Floyd are idiots. It's the intention behind the record that matters, not the absolute sounds.

Haven't heard any of the new stuff, though. The Guardian review of the concert was a stinker too, but the Observer loved it. The Obs reviewer claimed that despite the majority of the crowd not having heard the new album, it went down a treat, but I suspect he's lying.

I think it was probably just a bad gig. Yes, Moon Safari was tha

t good.

'It's the intention behind the record that matters, not the absolute sounds. '

I'm sure Pink Floyd 'intended' to make a 'good record' with 'Dark Side of the Moon' , just as most bands probably don't intend to make a piece of crap when they enter the studio. Intentions (which are v. often unknowable/unsayable) are irrelevant - it's ONLY the 'absolute sounds', the thing itself, that we can judge at all.

Roger Waters's (rather than the whole band's) "intentions" with the aforementioned record seem to have included a number of sneers at pathetic working-class people written very obviously from the perspective of the idle rich gone hippy turned melancholic. I rather doubt whether any of the above concepts have occured to Air. Perhaps that might be what Nick meant?

Andrew, I'm curious as to how far you would take that POV. For instance, would you also say then that all artist interviews, and commentaries on their own works, are completely irrelevant and pointless? (you just might, I'm guessing)

I can't help but believe that neither the music nor the musicians are best appreciated in such a utilitarian manner. Without a perception of intention (accurate or not - does it really matter?), without a sense of development and history, or some element of intriguing personality behind the music, what happens to fandom? I mean being say, a Smiths FAN, implies liking more than just the Smiths music itself. Maybe fandom is obsolete, but then having to buy full albums would be all but pointless as only the single format would provide the listener an objective end result only experience. Concept album or no - if the grand intention is bullshit, might as well break it up and just keep the good bits, eh? I suppose a world of such purely fickle listeners could result in a higher quality average sound, but, the idea sounds so inhuman. I think I LIKE being a fan.

I do realise that I have ignored the topic completely...

Kim, think I was being a bit dourly post-structuralist (or whatever) when I suggested intentions are TOTALLY irrelevant to the listener's appreciation. Of course musicians can say interesting things about their own work, of course we can be fascinated by their personalities and personal histories. But once a record is released we're all free to make of it what we will - we might enjoy something for reasons that are totally at odds with the 'author's' stated aims. I've always liked T.S. Eliot's comment that "The poem that you read may be better than the one I wrote", 'cos it acknowledges the essential mystery of creative work - creative types don't always know why they did something or what it means, and the interaction with audiences, fans, consumers can create new meanings/interpretations. Do we really think that artists always tell 'the truth' in interviews? Or that we should only accept their version of the work? Should we discount those artists who are unwilling or unable to fully articulate their aesthetic aims?

I don't think any this is inhuman necessarily (though it can be), it's actually a way of 'empowering' the audience by allowing them a place in the discourse that surrounds the album, novel, film, etc. And 'intentions' or 'stated aims' won't get us very far when we're dealing with 'faceless techno artists' and the like - you can still be a fan of Thomas Pynchon despite the fact that he never comments on his work.

Sorry, this is all a long way from Air....

I was there, I thought it was great. I haven't heard any of their albums so all I know is they didn't do Sexy Boy, Kelly Watch The Stars or All I Need ('er... 'ello. Zis song is from our new record, which is not over here yet released. But we hope that you can, er, like it. You are wonderful'). They did Radio No1, and that was a pretty good indicator - a gentle, layered keyboard wash. It was difficult for me to tell one song from another, but I quite liked that.

As for prog rock, well, I didn't notice any bass solos. It must be said that one of them (I don't know their names - the one with straight hair) was wearing a black cape with a big collar, but I thought he looked good in it. Also the way he was playing his keyboards (head height, at right-angles to the crowd) was funny.

They went down very well, it seemed to me, even if towards the end most people were nudging each other, pointing to the balcony and saying 'Oh look, it's Noel Gallagher and Michael Stipe!' (Although they weren't as well received as Sigur Ros at the same venue the night before, who deservedly got the loudest, near-hysterical standing ovation I've ever experienced.)

Didn't see air @ shepherd's bush emp, because I couldn't afford it...I don't think they're playing up here, but I'd probably go if they did.

"Moon Safari" was & is that great. The stuff from "Virgin Suicides" I've heard is pretty prog rock, but that isn't any critique to me. The last gig I saw at SBE was King Crimson, after all. And there was worse music made in thee 1970's that by that silly old fart rick wakeman. Humble Pie for instance. Or Pink Floyd. Anyway, when I saw Air on "Later" they were diong this stereolab-alike thing which I liked a lot. I presume they aren't doing that anymore?

x0x0

nah, moon safari is not that great i thought it a bit cartoonish and dull. the virgin suicides thing was much better, i would hope they continue in the darker vein for the new record and get a new female singer as well. extra points for musicians/physicists are granted.

Keith will be happy then, because I've heard the new record and it's very good, not as fluffy as Moon Safari (in its fluff all-out classic I say). Why complain about 70s and prog though? Pink Floyd and ELO are obvious influences. One of the reasons Air could never be an British band, the totalitarian spirit of punk still lingers over much of the music-press that they would have been destroyed ("wee, whimsey, cutesy bollocks" ;). With the safe distance of Ah Zee Wacky French, Air somehow can be accepted. Yes? No?

Much as I like them I will always avoid seeing them play live. Studio bands should preferably stay in the studio.

Well the first album was successful more under the aegis of the lounge revival (grr) rather than any kind of progginess, so whatever ELO-ish tendencies it might have had were considered ironic and therefore sanitized. As the band move away from this, press is likely to get frostier, cf this month's Q which has an interview with the band that verges on hostility.

Oh dear! (btw Tom, you read Q?!? ;) The Face had a very nice interview with them (also notice positive reception of actual record in The Face and i-D).

Yes you're right: they snuck through with the lounge crowd, although 'Moon Safari' was by far the most popular records in that area for awhile. Ah well, I'm not complaining since 'Kelly Watch the Stars' pisses from great heights on all those ballads. I wonder how many of the lounge crowd will like '10.000Hz Legend' (if they weren't already alienated by the Virgin Suicides ost). Sympathetic reviewers will push the Kraftwerk angle. Negative reviewers will push the "It's a bloody Dark Side of The Moon for ironic ravers" angle.

They set up the same question 'Disco:very' did, whichever way the critics fall the latest Air will stand - by virtue of it's sheer efficacy - they sound great, whether they're kidding or not.

Re: the original question.

Today's Air interview in the Independent starts with the following quote from Nicolas Godin:

"Prog rock is the most horrible music ever made. I hate that music."

He goes on to say:

"I can't believe people say we're prog. I really hate that music so much"

Might as well use this thread for dissection and analysis of '10000 Hz Legend' reviews and erm...well...the actual record.

So far NME 9/10, The Face and i-D in ecstatic mode.

Morley's review in Uncut one of the most dissapointing reviews I've read in years. Back to writing about your old man, old man.

OK then, what does anybody think? It's been out a day....

I haven't heard the album yet, but that single is cack.

I will be posting Derek Dull's unassailably definitive review of this unspeakable masterpiece on Thursday. Keep those bass lines nimble!

mmm, right. Derek Dull?

The album is great of course (somewhere on kindamuzik i try to say why) But what I notice is almost the same split reactions as with 'Discovery' (as K-reg forsaw).

Con, stuff like: a) why didn't they make another Moon Safari (surely the lamest) b) I don't get it, this prog rock (ye olde disillusioned punk writer) c) are they taking the piss?.

Pro, stuff like: a) the first great electro record of the 21st century b) leaves album behind as one-dimensional c)risky, oblique and personal.

i like I MONSTERs single better - is more funny

Readers, I regret to announce that Derek Dull wasn't of much help in assessing this Air work. Based on the antics I witnessed at Shep Bush I was looking forward to dredging up comparisons to unjustly forgotten prog masterpieces like "Albedo 0.39," "The Mathematician's Flying Display," "I Robot," "Strawbale Cannon Gent," etc.

But unfortunately, having listened to it about four times properly so far, all I can really discern is a rather run-of-the-mill moody ambient piece of work; certainly not Rick Wakeman, but no better or worse than things brought out by the likes of Alpha, Panacea, Jazzanova, London Electricity, or indeed Zero 7. Gilles Peterson land, essentially.

Nor do I plan to exhume Mr Dull on behalf of "Amnesiac" 'cos it's like dead good and that, yeah, like.

Have sympathy, folks; it's been a crap week. I've saved all the good stuff for the Jools Holland thread, which I may well post in half-an- hour or so, depending upon how much methylated spirits are left in the tin.

To All Moon safari fans. Try the "premiers symptomes"album (older than moonsaf) C'est de la bombe balle

On first listen (tired, mildly irritable) "10,000 Hz Legend" is brilliant, far better than "Moon Safari" which I can't listen to these days because it seems so much a product of its already very- distant loungecore times. But then I'm sure within two years, when the dust has settled on lounge, "Moon Safari" will show itself again. At the moment for me, though, my mental recall of it makes it seem horrendously cheesy.

particular thoughts so far: "The Vagabond" is me at this moment "Wonder Milky Bitch" fantastic character study "People In The City" just a beautiful reflection on how people live; they're not special or banal, they just are, but they're being celebrated.

I'll say something else when I'm more measured.

Interesting you should single out "The Vagabond" and "Wonder Milky Bitch" Robin - those are the two tracks I can't stand ;)

Maybe it's just my first hearing it when tired and alienated.

On repeated listens all evening, "People In The City" surges forward. "The Vagabond" *is* very 70s-romantic-traveller, which is actually what I like about it (though I might not for long - remember I adored "It's A Crime" when I first heard "69 Love Songs" and have skipped it consistently for about the last 9 months).

Oh, and "Don't Be Light" is awesome of course.