'Show Me The Money' (or Lyrics obsessing over wealth - CLASSIC OR DUD

that was supposed to end 'need not reply', but they can if they like.

Interesting question, Nick. It seems a syndrome most evident in hip hop, where the preoccupation with the acquisition of easy wealth, the flaunting of said wealth ("bling bling", if I'm understanding the terminonolgy correctly) and the requisite "booty" that invariably comes with the package has become the overring theme (and subsequent lowest common denominator) in contemporary hip-hop culture (unlike, say, the socio-political concerns of Public Enemy et al.) To which I say, "yaaaaawwwwnnnnnn." It's repugnant and not just a little dull.

Nick: you are probably on a good point here. I can't comment on the kind of records you're talking about, cos to me they have an overall sonic obnoxiousness that effectively precedes or transcends any lyrical turn-offs. But if it's like you say it is, then I agree with you (assuming that you articulated a clear enough position to disagree with, which I think you just about did).

I truly find this sort of music uplifting. Aquiring money is a good thing. Letting people know that they must first have a lot of money before you will pay any attention is also a good thing because, hey, it says what you're all about right up front. Also, talking about easy money (bling, bling or whatever you said) is a really great way to let others in on this goldmine, and, since we all want to be rich, I see nothing wrong with extensive lyrics about the aquiring and spending or wasting of this "easy money". It gets our appetites whetted and puts us in a more positive frame of mind for aquiring some of this easy money ourselves. Also, by playing this music loudly, from say, bose speakers in the trunk of one's car, we can make it perfectly clear that we have money, we like money, and if you have some or need some, you know that we are also interested in the same thing and, perhaps we have plenty of it (our loud speakers would seem to indicate this, but this is not necessarily proof) or we may be interested in aquiring some, if by chance you have some or know how to get some. All in all, I'd say it's great.

It is 'ikky and loveless' but more than that it's just irritating because it's so formulaic. Many of the people writing these lyrics were, ten years ago or so, probably writing (or aspiring to write) very Afro-centric or sub Public Enemy militant lyrics. In other words, at any one time, most people are trying to fit in with whatever the established format is at that time (because they want commercial success).

It got much more fun when you got the whole "don't need no man with the bling bling" backlash. Cultural artifacts are always dull when you take them at face value rather than exploring how they capture facets, sometimes contradictory, of a whole social system. Can I identify with these songs? Yes. But then I only listen to music I can identify with, and I can identify with almost any sort of music with a little effort, and certainly almost anything on the pop charts.

Sterling's answer is interesting cause it shows how clueless I am about the whole scene - I didn't even know about the backlash. Although someone yesterday did tell me that Destiny's Child have announced they're not gonna rip into useless/poor men anymore or something.

Of course I was being a bit disingenuous to suggest it's really a new thing, but I didn't want to make some broadbrush remark about wealth-bragging's history in hip hop and I was too lazy/igorant to give it a more complex treatment.

Cultural artifacts are always dull when you take them at face value rather than exploring how they capture facets, sometimes contradictory, of a whole social system.

This seems very intelligent, but I'm not sure I can cope with enjoying pop music this way. Does this come naturally to you Sterling, or do you sometimes long to turn your analytical mind off and enjoy things at fa

ce value?

It's always tough when a group of people, most of whom are presumably white and middle class (I could be wrong there! I apologize if I'm off base), get together to debate the lyrical content of black music. I am definitely not saying it shouldn't be done, but I get the feeling that we all end up choosing our words more carefully here than we would when talking about the merits of, say, Steven Merritt.

Nick, I think the key sentence in your question is this one:

"As someone who was always brought up with the idea that money doesn't bring you happiness..."

This is NOT the way people who grow up in the ghettos of America think. When you grow up in poverty, afraid of the kinds of things that are going to happen to you because you're poor, money becomes more important. I grew up in a rather pacified middle-class world that insulated me from some of the realities of survival (I've had to face these more directly as I get older, but I still have that middle class mentality deep down). I never had any clue that something awful might happen, like getting thrown out of a house or not being able to afford medical care, because of lack of funds. I think the fantasy of drinking Cristal in a limo is so appealing but it represents getting as far away from that kind of existence as possible. I don't think it has as much to do with the particulars of limos or diamonds or champagne or whatever. It's what they represent.

I think one of the triumphs of hip-hop is that it presents a certain aspect of the black ghetto experience in its purest, unmediated form. Black music through the ages that hoped to capture the white market had to incorporate white middle class values to a degree in order to sell. There was no musical equivalent to Iceberg Slim in the 60s, and that was marketed as "exploitation" literature.

I have a track by Jelly Roll Morton called "Whinin' Boy" on a compilation that was originally recorded for the "race records" market in the 30s. It's the raunchiest, most perverse sexual story you can imagine, with language that equals passages on 2001 for offensiveness. I heard that and though, "Wow, this stuff is nothing new." It was just underground for the longest time, unable to break through into the white-owned media with the implied values.

All my street friends think it's funny that I like bounce rap. I think it's funny too. This is a case of the sense of irony shining thru. There are times you shouldn't be too literal, and this could be one of them...

I be big pimpin'. Spendin' G's.

I thought he said "Big pimpin', spreadin' the cheese", as in some despicable sexual activity that I'm too English to know about.