Can you help me analyse the lyrics to Disorder by Joy Division?

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I've been waiting for a guide to come and take me by the hand.
Could these sensations make me feel the pleasures of a normal man.
These sensations barely interest me for another day.
I've got the spirit, lose the feeling, take the shock away.

It's getting faster, moving faster now, it's getting out of hand.
On the tenth floor, down the backstairs, into no man's land.
Lights are flashing, cars are crashing, getting frequent now.
I've got the spirit, lose the feeling, let it out somehow.

What means to you, what means to me, and we will meet again.
I'm watching you, I'm watching her, I'll take no pity from you friends.
Who is right, who can tell and who gives a damn right now.

Until the spirit new sensation takes hold, then you know.(3 times)

I've got the spirit, but lose the feeling.(2 times)

Feeling.(7 times)

Daniel Giraffe, Thursday, 22 April 2010 11:21 (fifteen years ago)

I've always loved the lyrics to this song. So evocative, so resonant... But what exactly is he talking about?

Daniel Giraffe, Thursday, 22 April 2010 11:22 (fifteen years ago)

It's my favorite JD song, and I have absolutely no idea what it means.

Johnny Fever, Thursday, 22 April 2010 11:43 (fifteen years ago)

i always thought he said "I've been waiting for a GUY to come and take me by the hand." I concluded that he was looking for a homosexual encounter.

soulless orange bimbo (res), Thursday, 22 April 2010 12:50 (fifteen years ago)

anyway, i'm sure it's something about being personally defective and lacking interest in being life

soulless orange bimbo (res), Thursday, 22 April 2010 12:51 (fifteen years ago)

* alive

soulless orange bimbo (res), Thursday, 22 April 2010 12:52 (fifteen years ago)

I always thought it was "guy" too

Is that your Ayrshire bacon? (Tom D.), Thursday, 22 April 2010 12:52 (fifteen years ago)

seconding johnny fever - for a time this my go-to song for testing out new audio equipment. the sharpness and quickness of the opening drums..

"I am the bone lord," Tom proclaimed skulkingly. (dyao), Thursday, 22 April 2010 13:24 (fifteen years ago)

To me, this song is about his disassociation from the modern world. He senses that the world is accelerating all around him, but from his perspective it is simply devolving into chaos and he's wondering how other people can make sense of it and why he cannot.

Moodles, Thursday, 22 April 2010 14:11 (fifteen years ago)

yeah that's a good encapsulation

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Thursday, 22 April 2010 15:33 (fifteen years ago)

FYI more listeners presenting their theories here http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/43455/

StanM, Thursday, 22 April 2010 16:05 (fifteen years ago)

Interesting that so many people tie the lyrics to his epilepsy. I like how this plays on the dual meaning of "Disorder": disease vs. chaos.

Moodles, Thursday, 22 April 2010 16:18 (fifteen years ago)

yes epilepsy is what I first thought when I saw the lyrics written down like this

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Thursday, 22 April 2010 17:25 (fifteen years ago)

He was reading lots of books so this could have come from an idea from one of those. Maybe JG Ballard?

brotherlovesdub, Thursday, 22 April 2010 17:34 (fifteen years ago)

aren't nearly all JD's songs are about pretty much the same thing?

soulless orange bimbo (res), Thursday, 22 April 2010 17:53 (fifteen years ago)

Love the Bedhead cover of this.

Trip Maker, Thursday, 22 April 2010 17:56 (fifteen years ago)

He's alienated from his own experiences. Driven to try things, see things, but the emotions are gone, they mean nothing to him.

Dr X O'Skeleton, Thursday, 22 April 2010 20:57 (fifteen years ago)

"In psychology and psychiatry, anhedonia (< Greek αν- an-, without + ηδονή hēdonē, pleasure) is an inability to experience pleasurable emotions from normally pleasurable life events such as eating, exercise, social interaction or sexual activities.
Anhedonia is recognized as one of the key symptoms of the mood disorder depression according to both the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders Fourth Edition (DSM IV) and the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD)."

Soukesian, Thursday, 22 April 2010 21:18 (fifteen years ago)

I think it's "until the spiritless sensation takes hold" rather than "spirit new sensation"

brad whitford's guitar explorations (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 22 April 2010 21:21 (fifteen years ago)

http://th08.deviantart.net/fs10/300W/i/2006/124/e/d/I_love_joy_division__by_torturedhearts.jpg

I just wish he hadn't adopted the "ilxor" moniker (ilxor), Thursday, 22 April 2010 21:22 (fifteen years ago)

If Unknown Pleasures is a descent into some version of Hell then "I've been waiting for a guide/guy to come and take me by the hand" is Curtis waiting for Virgil to turn up and start the tour. Which leads us from "the tenth floor, down the backstairs, into no man's land." And more or less ends with a "damn" and the feelinglessness of the disembodied spirits.

and ya thought that shit played out in ILX (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 22 April 2010 21:24 (fifteen years ago)

I'm sorry, but isn't the title sort of pointing to epilepsy? like it's a "disorder"?

iago g., Thursday, 22 April 2010 21:37 (fifteen years ago)

I know, I know, I'm a real Einstein...

iago g., Thursday, 22 April 2010 21:38 (fifteen years ago)

It certainly feels like that's part of it, but I'd want to check up on a) when his seizures started compared to when he wrote the song, and b) whether "disorder" was commonly used in the late 70s as a descriptor for epilepsy.

and ya thought that shit played out in ILX (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 22 April 2010 21:42 (fifteen years ago)

the term disorder has been in use to describe medical syndromes since early in the twentieth century afaik

pretty sure his seizure disorder was a lifelong thing

brad whitford's guitar explorations (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 22 April 2010 22:01 (fifteen years ago)

Could these sensations make me feel the pleasures of a normal man.
These sensations barely interest me for another day.

love the narrative gap/complete reversal that takes place in between these two lines

dyªº (dyao), Friday, 23 April 2010 00:16 (fifteen years ago)

theme of hand-taking recurs in "Colony" (where the guide is now God, "Atrocity Exhibition" (the narrator offering his hand to the listener), "She's Lost Control"... not to read too much into it, but it's sorta striking since there's so little corporeality in the songs. then again, hands have lots of nerve endings in them, so w/e

INSUFFICIENT FUN (bernard snowy), Friday, 23 April 2010 00:19 (fifteen years ago)

I'VE GOT THE SPIRIT
BUT LOSE THE FEELING

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 23 April 2010 00:22 (fifteen years ago)

xpost and of course things get "out of hand" both here and in "Heart and Soul"
maybe Ian was just a lazy lyricist??

INSUFFICIENT FUN (bernard snowy), Friday, 23 April 2010 00:22 (fifteen years ago)

Well, you could opt for a free-associative style, as the song is full of transference/projection/resistance elements. Along these lines, it could be about the sudden arrival of knowledge and blunt awareness that comes at the expense of feelings and emotions sometimes. Too much noise, not enough signal and no adequate filter ("guide"). Think of a newborn left to fend for himself on a packed shopping mall. Extra points to Ian Curtis for naming it "Disorder", which is simultaneously organic, psychological and social instead of the more obvious but less concise choice "Disorientation". Amazingly, it could even be interpreted as a comment a posteriori on the internet: everything is fleeting, flashy, displaced, voyeuristic and yet often devoid of meaning.

Now, Friday, 23 April 2010 07:25 (fifteen years ago)

Pretty sure it's not 'guy' - it doesn't seem like an Ian Curtis type of word, any more than 'bloke' or 'fella' would've fitted there.

Ismael Klata, Friday, 23 April 2010 07:41 (fifteen years ago)

Thanks for the contributions so far.

Some random thoughts:

I think the title is really telling, as various people have mentioned, and it works as a nice contrast with the (eventually) hedonistic New Order.

"on the 10th floor down the back stairs into no man's land" is such a killer line about the descent into the dark recesses of the subconscious. It's also incredibly modern, and those who've mentioned about the modern world passing him by are onto something. I think these two strands - the emotional disorder within him and his difficulty in relating to the hectic nature of the late 20th century - are encapsulated in this line.

The point about the hand-taking motif is interesting, in that suffering from epilepsy he might have felt the need for a steady hand in contrast with his own nervy disposition. I mean, one of things Curtis is best known for is flinging his arms around jerkily. Fair point, though, Noodle Vague about wanting to know when the fits started.

Now's post was really interesting, especially the line: Too much noise, not enough signal and no adequate filter ("guide").

Daniel Giraffe, Friday, 23 April 2010 07:47 (fifteen years ago)

I'd still stress that Curtis was pretty heavily into books and the Dante parallels don't seem at all accidental to me.

and ya thought that shit played out in ILX (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 April 2010 07:48 (fifteen years ago)

and we should pay a little less attention to the autobiography and a little more to the craft

and ya thought that shit played out in ILX (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 April 2010 07:51 (fifteen years ago)

first verse is about impotence, maybe inorgasmia, probably as a result of his medication/ condition. He's hoping that the new sensations he gets from being in the band, or maybe in the lust new love affair ( Annik? don't know the timing here?) will cause him to feel the hitherto-unknown pleasures of a normal sex life. The third line contradicts that, but I think its a comment on his fluctuating levels of desire and lust (for life) - on some days, even the things I want hardly interest me.

second verse alludes to the epilepsy, and the fast pace of modern life, but actually I think its consummation of the new affair, the fury of a desperate fuck in the stairwell of a block of flats. Ian is willing, his impotence problems are still there, but he "lets it out somehow", ie he achieves poppage.

If the first two verses may be about the start of an affair, the third verse is consistent, and even straightforward. He's not sure what the affair means, but wants to meet her again. He's wary of both his wife and the new girl (implies they know each other?) He's equally not sure whether this is a good thing, only that, in the heat of the moment, it feels right. "Until the spirit new sensation takes hold, then you know"

Finally he returns to worrying about his dick again...

tomofthenest, Friday, 23 April 2010 07:55 (fifteen years ago)

Annik? don't know the timing here? No, Annik is ca. 6 months later.

Dr.C, Friday, 23 April 2010 09:05 (fifteen years ago)

was just playing this from les bains douches. it kills.

Dr X O'Skeleton, Friday, 23 April 2010 11:40 (fifteen years ago)

and we should pay a little less attention to the autobiography and a little more to the craft

^^^^^^^^^

I just wish he hadn't adopted the "ilxor" moniker (ilxor), Friday, 23 April 2010 13:08 (fifteen years ago)

I had almost this exact same thought:
suffering from epilepsy he might have felt the need for a steady hand in contrast with his own nervy disposition. I mean, one of things Curtis is best known for is flinging his arms around jerkily.

but then decided not to post it after having almost this exact same thought:
we should pay a little less attention to the autobiography and a little more to the craft

NV I like the Dante parallels, but I don't think that reading is totally incompatible with the psychobiographical element either -- epileptic fit as descent into hell, but lacking a guide who would be able to make something more of it than a painful whirl of disordered sensations. the end result being rather more tragic than comic.

INSUFFICIENT FUN (bernard snowy), Friday, 23 April 2010 13:21 (fifteen years ago)

xp it might not be autobiographical, but it's still fundamentally a song about not being able to get a stiffy. probably.

tomofthenest, Friday, 23 April 2010 13:22 (fifteen years ago)

who gives a damn

dyªº (dyao), Friday, 23 April 2010 13:24 (fifteen years ago)

bernard I completely agree that autobiography's got a place in reading Curtis' lyrics, but he is one of those people who provoke almost totally autobiographical readings of his work, sometimes at the expense of his very obvious literary influences, so I guess I was saying "not one or the other but both please"

and ya thought that shit played out in ILX (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 April 2010 16:53 (fifteen years ago)

I've no doubt that the first line is a reference to Dante, particularly since the closer of Closer also has obviously Dante-inspired lyrics.

Zelda Zonk, Friday, 23 April 2010 17:14 (fifteen years ago)

one year passes...

i've been waiting for a guide to come and take me by the hand

partistan (dayo), Sunday, 18 September 2011 01:22 (fourteen years ago)

aw

markers, Sunday, 18 September 2011 01:23 (fourteen years ago)

fee-ling fee-ling fee-ling

markers, Sunday, 18 September 2011 01:25 (fourteen years ago)

the les bains douches version fucking rips btw

partistan (dayo), Sunday, 18 September 2011 01:27 (fourteen years ago)

joy division is so fucking good.

remember yr man when he's at wooooooooooork (Z S), Sunday, 18 September 2011 01:34 (fourteen years ago)

related syllable/lyrical-rhythm pattern between opening lines from The Jam "In The City" and Joy Division - "Disorder"?

-> "in the city there's a thousand things I want to say to you..."

-> "I've been waiting for a guide to come and take me by the hand..."

Paul, Sunday, 18 September 2011 01:42 (fourteen years ago)

start on the 10th floor leaves 9 circles down?

Louis Jaha (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 18 September 2011 02:25 (fourteen years ago)

one year passes...

http://instagram.com/p/S6U3ZhNk2U/

dan selzer, Friday, 7 December 2012 06:21 (thirteen years ago)

I think the Dante allusion might be pushing it but that's just me. Are there other instances of Curtis using overt allusion in his songwriting? Personally I always assumed this was one of his later songs and I relate the lyrics to the trajectory of his career.

Nice pics tho.

viborg, Friday, 7 December 2012 15:27 (thirteen years ago)


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