Your favorite Madonna album VS. your favorite Joni Mitchell album

I'd rather gouge out my ear drums with rusty nails, but honestly .... Madonna handily wins this one.

...and I'd go with True Blue.

I don't think there's a single Madonna album I can stand to listen to all the way through (maybe Like a Virgin?) and Joni has several so yeah Joni. I just like the sound of her records more. A lot of Madonna's stuff just sounds like shit - bad synths, bad drums, thin voice, etc.

waht

Prefer Madonna's songs, but Joni made better albums.

Holiday > Blue > any madonna album

I've listened to my favorite Madonna album more than my favorite Joni. Erotica and maybe LAP are the only ones that work as consistent full-lengths.

joni joni joni

but her over 99% of recorded music period so

btw Madonna's favorite album growing up was Court & Spark.

madonna

don't get me wrong I don't really have anything against Madonna, she's okay and obviously a fascinating cultural figure, but the actual music tends to just sound really cheap and crappy to my ears. sonically, the awkward transition from analog to digital that was going on in pop music during the 80s/early 90s resulted in a lot of weak sounding shit, and Madonna's albums suffer from that insofar as they are all very much "of their time". The time didn't sound very good, imho.

Mitchell's particular antipathy for Madonna is amazing coming from someone whose pals were all conspicuous West Coasters who never stopped pimping for magazines.

yeah Mitchell's criticism of Madonna for pimping out her sexuality is very uh waht pot callin the kettle black a bit there...

I don't see how Joni doesn't take this in a landslide.

because she is old and boring?

starting a Destiny's Child vs. Killing Joke poll in revenge for Alex's wrong-ass vote & reasoning on this thread

gays and people born after 1980 duh

xp

xps: like, yes she's a very important musical figure blah blah blah whatever, her actual songs are by and large things that I never, ever, ever want to hear, ever, in practically any context/situation

like, yes she's a very important musical figure blah blah blah whatever, her actual songs are by and large things that I never, ever, ever want to hear, ever, in practically any context/situation

hmm this is pretty much how I feel about Madonna haha

But you can dance to Madonna, so she wins by default.

...and I'd go with True Blue.

This. Handily.

But you can dance to Madonna, so she wins by default.

eh, not my brand of dance music tbh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q4foLKDlcE

WOO! BOGGIE DOWN!

btw that is not a typo, I fully expect you all to boggie down to this because you certainly can't boogie down to it

also she was really a fantastic singer

Hmmm. I have never listened to an album by either of these people. Maybe I should.

I'm not quite sure Mitchell is a person.

growing to enjoy joni after years of antipathy but I still enjoy You Can Dance (if we're allowed count comps) more than most albums ever. and joni comps all have "big yellow taxi" on them.

One of my biggest disappointments was buying the Joni Mitchell album that Jaco Pastorius played on and realizing that Joni Mitchell was still on it.

Did Joni ever write a prettier and more moving song than Little Green?

madonna should do a dulcimer record like when sting rocked the lute

Unfair poll. Please delete.

Did Joni ever write a prettier and more moving song than Little Green?

Yes. And Madonna has too!

Okay Joni + Madonna gorgeousness...pick only one?

I've come to realize that the main reason "Big Yellow Taxi" bothers me so much is because the note she sings on "gone" in the chorus is boring third of the chord that just sort of splats there with no momentum as opposed to a more interesting, dissonant fourth that would also tie the line directly into the first chord of the phrase "they paved paradise" since it's a note in that chord.

Few other people probably have this problem but I felt like sharing.

Hmmm. I have never listened to an album by either of these people. Maybe I should.

you really should!

this is one of those choices i genuinely can't make. can't even begin to compare them qualitatively, wouldn't know how or where to start.

"Justify My Love" vs "In France They Kiss on Main Street"

because she is old and boring?

― Marriage, that's where I'm a Viking! (HI DERE), Monday, April 26, 2010 6:00 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

RIGHT, BECAUSE MADONNA IS STILL MUSICALLY VITAL AND ETERNALLY YOUNG AND FASCINATING o_O

xp if you sing/imagine/follow along with the chorus, it's really easy to empathise with HI DERE. My problem is that I can't summon from my brain what a fourth would sound like in that context..I definitely don't have perfect pitch.

Joni Mitchell was always old and boring though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a5tNWKz9p0

OH OK so that's settled.

the first two minutes of that clip do wonders for reconsidering Madonna as old and boring.

xps: like, yes she's a very important musical figure blah blah blah whatever, her actual songs are by and large things that I never, ever, ever want to hear, ever, in practically any context/situation

― Marriage, that's where I'm a Viking! (HI DERE), Monday, April 26, 2010 6:01 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark

^this

i've listened to waaaaaaay more madonna than joni over the years, but now....? hmmm, i was really digging hegira a couple months ago. first time i had ever heard it!

see, also, i really only was a madonna fan up to and including ray of light and the idea of listening to her newer stuff doesn't thrill me. i've heard all her old stuff a million times, but there is some joni i've never heard and that i might like.

which doesn't answer the question at all. i'm a big fan of madonna's singles. i just counted 40 singles - on her wiki page - by madonna that i like or love a lot. 40! joni can't compete with that.

A fair, potentially useful poll would be Joni Mitchell albums vs. Madonna singles.

xp if you sing/imagine/follow along with the chorus, it's really easy to empathise with HI DERE. My problem is that I can't summon from my brain what a fourth would sound like in that context..I definitely don't have perfect pitch.

The note I'm thinking of is a half-step up from the one she is singing.

xp yes although a different way of saying that would be that even many of her earlier songs seem to come from this 'mature' feeling, wizened perspective. Maybe a bit of a generalisation but Madonna's earliest music in comparison feels perpetually carefree and youthful.

I've come to realize that the main reason "Big Yellow Taxi" bothers me so much is because the note she sings on "gone" in the chorus is boring third of the chord that just sort of splats there with no momentum as opposed to a more interesting, dissonant fourth that would also tie the line directly into the first chord of the phrase "they paved paradise" since it's a note in that chord.

actually this is exactly the sort of thing that she took the most interest in post-Blue - her vocal lines became more and more about exploring territory outside of I/III/IV/V - Court and Spark has a lot of the last gasps of traditional pop melody stuff and by Hejira it sounds (to me) like she's trying to voice the pinkie finger of Bill Evans's right hand (what's she hitting on "-wayyy" in the chorus of "Coyote"- a 2nd I think maybe? it's one of my favorite things about her, how she grew out of one melodic tendency, really seemed to challenge herself to learn new ways of approaching vocal melody

so Shakey, in your experience music has never been the bourgeoisie and the rebel?

hahaha wait waht did Madonna actually say "the music is the bourgeoisie" in one of her songs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUL_OScSRLs

unlike the others I'll do anything/I'm not the same/I'm bourgeoisie/I'm on fire iirc

guys it's Giorgio Moroder's "Tears" fyi

xp

music isn't the bourgeoisie and the rebel, it makes the bourgeoisie and the rebel

hahaha wait waht did Madonna actually say "the music is the bourgeoisie" in one of her songs?

Do you actively run away when popular culture threatens to encroach upon your personal space?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdz2oW0NMFk

xp: oops, Eric OTM

okay, found one. don juan's reckless daughter. as a prog fan i'm kinda curious about the side-long paprika plains. best thing about this record is the back cover with the picture of little joni dressed as an indian and saying "how". it's racist, but its funny.

Do you actively run away when popular culture threatens to encroach upon your personal space?

run away? this kinda stuff just does not come into my life - I don't listen to the radio, I don't watch videos, I don't go to dance clubs, etc. I think I have only one close friend who might conceivably make me listen to Madonna. It's more like popular culture just doesn't have the reach it used to.

I mean I spend all day in an office, at night I hang out with the wife and read and watch movies. Otherwise I spend my free time making music and hanging out with my kid. Madonna is not really part of any of that equation, is that really so hard to believe?

yes

sooo... yes

haha xp

i am crying laughing at the "rock cover" i posted btw

crying

oh, oh dear

couldn't handle paprika plains. that one must be for troo joni superfans. and jaco was kinda bumming me out on side one.

i think i actually prefer madonna's dude obsessions too. joni's a complainer and it gets kinda tedious for me. on the other hand, joni does boredom and ennui REALLY well. which i appreciate.

I'm a huge Joni fan and have basically no time for anything she's done after 1974.

Cosign.

man you guys are crazy, I can listen to Night Ride Home all day

Boring opinion: Joni wins this one thanks to "Blue"

If I'm looking at their whole careers though (ya I know that's not what the poll question is asking but I'm just sayin) then it's Madonna by a landslide. She had only one really boring period (the "Evita" era) whereas 50% of Joni's career has been boring.

I've come to realize that the main reason "Big Yellow Taxi" bothers me so much is because the note she sings on "gone" in the chorus is boring third of the chord that just sort of splats there with no momentum as opposed to a more interesting, dissonant fourth that would also tie the line directly into the first chord of the phrase "they paved paradise" since it's a note in that chord.

okay that is super interesting and I will listen for that

I didn't think that autobiographical parallels are that important to me either but maybe they are in this case - I've never found any of Madonna's songs remotely relatable.

you have obviously never fell in love with san pedro.

That would be accurate.

I'm going to Scott's for a dance party. I can't stand Mitchell, though I do have a soft spot for Dylan's version of "Big Yellow Taxi".

fuck that song forever yo. i like me some malls

you have obviously never fell in love with san pedro.

Madonna was in the Minutemen?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2136/2094708080_9c2d7b115d_o.png>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>every Madonna album

Shakey Mo you know you are begging for a poll where a buncha clowns vote Madonna over the Minutemen just to provoke a Shakey Moquake

to further elaborate on the idea of paradox, there's something to be said for the co-existence of joy and pain in music. that's something i've always heard in madonna's songs. the joy is plain to hear, but there's a very real quality of sadness in her voice as well -- a certain desperation. that contrast has always connected with me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drMzeN1eXdA

^^^ totally voting Madonna

"Like a Prayer" is for me slightly better than "The Hissing Of Summer Lawns", although both are great albums.

Madonna debut > Court And Spark, but it's close.

Would take The Immaculate Collection over Joni's Hits too -- less close but still not a total rout or anything.

Own a few other Madonna albums (and 45s) at the moment, no other Joni ones I don't think.

Shakey Moquake

I think they sell these at Starbucks

Dairy Queen iirc

Nothing against Madonna -- lots of great singles, in fact -- but Joni's run of Court and Spark through Hejira is unimpeachable, IMO.

Hejira > Blue > Erotica > Hissing Of Summer Lawns > Madonna = Like A Prayer > For The Roses > Court & Spark > True Blue > Bedtime Stories > Night Ride Home > the other stuff in their respective careers

Just to illustrate the linear analysis of Big Yellow Taxi that I was sketching upthread:

http://sites.google.com/site/pnauert/BYT-linear.jpg

Honestly, Ray of Light is the only album by either one that I have any urge to listen to these days, so Madonna wins.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

voted favorite joni but might take the immaculate collection overall. actually, fuck that.

ILX is fucking crazy lately.

spring fever

Great post Paul, I partially agree. I actually hear 8-7-6-5-4-5. Interestingly, you you can actually hear the linear descent best in the last two occurrences of that sequence, which also have the most pronounced pauses that one could argue serve to disrupt its flow. That gets overpowered earlier in the song when the acoustic guitar moves so forcefully into the IV-V-I conclusion. And of course the Miles of Ailes version has another take on it.

Joni in a total walk, though Immaculate Collection would make it at least semi-interesting.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

that's right

oh thank god

RONG

oh yeah, that's right!!

ilx otm although this thread has opened my eyes to the surreality of ILM music talk