~THE KIND WE KEEP THINKING WILL TURN INTO A TUNE~ ILM CLASSICAL MUSIC LISTENING CLUB!

This week's picks:

Olivier Messiaen / Quartet for the End of Time (1940-1941)
http://www.classicalarchives.com/images/coverart/6/a/b/6/028946905227_300.jpg

Recommended recording:
CD Deutsche Grammophon: Gil Shaham, violin / Paul Meyer, clarinet / Jian Wang, violoncello / Myung-Whun Chung, piano

The most ethereally beautiful music of the twentieth century was first heard on a brutally cold January night in 1941, at the Stalag VIIIA prisoner-of-war camp, in Görlitz, Germany. The composer was Olivier Messiaen, the work “Quartet for the End of Time.” Messiaen wrote most of it after being captured as a French soldier during the German invasion of 1940. The première took place in an unheated space in Barrack 27. A fellow-inmate drew up a program in Art Nouveau style, to which an official stamp was affixed: “Stalag VIIIA 49 geprüft [approved].” Sitting in the front row—and shivering along with the prisoners—were the German officers of the camp.

The title does not exaggerate the ambitions of the piece. An inscription in the score supplies a catastrophic image from the Book of Revelation: “In homage to the Angel of the Apocalypse, who lifts his hand toward heaven, saying, ‘There shall be time no longer.’” It is, however, the gentlest apocalypse imaginable. The “seven trumpets” and other signs of doom aren’t roaring sound-masses, as in Berlioz’s Requiem or Mahler’s “Resurrection” Symphony, but fiercely elegant dances, whose rhythms swing along in intricate patterns without ever obeying a regular beat. In the midst of these Second Coming jam sessions are episodes of transfixing serenity—in particular, two “Louanges,” or songs of praise. Each has a drawn-out string melody over pulsing piano chords; each builds toward a luminous climax and then vanishes into silence. The first is marked “infinitely slow”; the second, “tender, ecstatic.” Beyond that, words fail. (via Alex Ross)

---

Alfred Schnittke / Piano Quintet (1972-1976)

http://home.wanadoo.nl/ovar/sovrev/schnittke/naxos8554728.jpg
Recommended recording:
CD Naxos 8.554728: Mark Lubotsky & Dimity Hall (violin), Theodore Kuchar & Irini Morozova (viola), Alexander Ivashkin & Julian Smiles(cello), Irina Schnittke (piano)

"Alfred Schnittke's Piano Quintet is a dark and heavy planet. Even in the midst of his bewilderingly prolific output, this extremely personal work commands a massive gravity; it seems to orient, arrange, and set in motion so many of Schnittke's works, before and after. If one wants to find the founding trauma for such a consistently agonizing body of artistic work, it can be found in the Piano Quintet.

This centrality may owe much to the quintet's function: conceived as a memorial to the composer's mother, who died of a stroke in September 1972, here's a composition whose substance was drawn from a real event, powerfully tangible and irrevocable. This kind of reality had not been Schnittke's basis for previous works. His Symphony No. 1 (1972) and other contemporaneous works are brazenly extroverted stylistic carnivals, full of fantasy, denunciation, and dark humor, and are largely artistic statements on art or cultural critiques on culture itself.

In this light, the Piano Quintet was a radical departure into an entirely personal sphere. This shift caused the composer tremendous difficulty. After finishing the first movement very quickly, Schnittke was blocked, "unable to continue because I had to take what I wrote from an imaginary space defined in terms of sound and put it into the psychological space as defined by life, where excruciating pain seems almost unserious, and one must fight for the right to use dissonance, consonance, and assonance."

Hence the Piano Quintet was shelved, and Schnittke did not resume work on it for almost four years. When he did pick up the work again, his musical temperament had changed, becoming more distilled, tauter, and more unabashedly morbid. Schnittke had perfected a personal sound, a dense, claustrophobic web of chromatic clusters. This signatory sound, rich yet obscure, serves as the backdrop for much of his succeeding work, and is seamlessly crafted into this work. The second movement is a wraith-like slow waltz on the name of B-A-C-H (H in German notation is B, B is B flat). The waltz is the only "polystylistic" concession in the piece, and throughout the movement consistently descends back into torturous clusters."

(via Seth Brodsky's AMG review)

nice. i need some schnittke in my life.

Hurrah

ooh, 'citing. think ilx have officially taken over my listening habits.

The Messaien is so, so beautiful. (My recording is the Chamber Music Northwest one on Delos.) Naked City's recording of "Louange a l'Éternité de Jésus" was the first Messaien I'd ever heard.

Weirdly, Messiaen may be the one canonized 20th-century composer whom I have never loved (excluding neo-Romantic bullshit). Still, I've enjoyed parts of the Quartet and look forward to listening closely to a recording.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRJmJzWibzA

xp Here you can hear that specific movement arranged for Ondes Martenot. Such a sad melody.

Anyhow I can't post illegal dl links, but I definitely think you should check the performance I recommended upthread. So maybe using your own internet searching powerz would be a good idea.

I actually first heard Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time a couple of weeks and I've been listening to it constantly ever since. Haven't heard the Schnittke but I'm looking forward to it!

Yeah, that wasn't a request for a link or anything. (I have seen the whole piece in concert BTW.)

look closely as his powerz

:)

Schnittke is well worth searching for as well tbh* but I'm not really pushing anyone, really...

I love the 2nd movement of the Piano Quintet.
♥

i play the two Louanges every now and then, tho they're almost too much

i was gonna ignore this one in favour of other listening clubs but the writeups on those picks are making it pretty hard to ignore

:D

So who's volunteering for the upcoming weeks?

I demand the presence of the usual suspects.

very pleased this is happening! I resolved earlier this year to finally educate myself about classical and shed some of the bad associations I have with it (junior high band, looney tunes, commercials, etc), so this is very welcome.

Listening to the Schnittke now on Lala.

Can I have a week?

Yes.

Next week good for you?

the alex ross piece u linked on the messiaen is really good - just encouraging every1 to read the full thing

was nvr that "into" quartet for the end of time but really making anything that sum1 cld faithfully describe as a "Second Coming jam session" is a real life goal 4 me

All you Messiaen skeptics will repent. Especially when you hear the orchestral arrangement of 'L'Ascension' conducted by Antoni Wit.

Next week good for you?

Sure. Two pieces on Wednesday? Should I suggest pieces or recordings?

I suppose the amount of pieces varies depending on length? i.e., not sure how well Tristan und Isolde would pan out.

btw re: pieces or recordings, both would be ideal. :)

Extremely psyched about this club. Will be a frequent visitor at the local library. I've got the Messiaen already, but a different recording, and love it. I don't think I've ever heard Schnittke before, so thanks for the suggestion! Youtube has the Naxos recording up. (I know, not exactly audiophile, but that's how I'm living.) Listening now for the first time, and man is this great. Really unsettling and arresting. I would love to see this performed live.

The Alex Ross article on Schnittke makes it clear I'm going to want to spend some more time checking him out. What's the next place to turn?

Also: Ross and a few other online reviews describe Schnittke as a prankster/jokester/ironist, big on appropriating chunks of the classical canon (including his own works), and some say there are even jokes in this quintet piece. But unless they mean the fractured waltz, I think I don't have the classical background to hear any others. Are there more?

dad a, glad that you dig. I would recommend the string quartets next. Also, the concerto grosso no. 3 is twisted and beautiful.

This club could be fantastic, thanks for setting it in motion. If anyone more knowledgeable than me (i.e. pretty much anyone) wants to use this as an opportunity to drop knowledge about who's who, what's going on, how this stuff works, etc. that will never go down badly with me. The original post is great.

“If I composed this quartet, it was to escape from the snow, from the war, from the captivity, and from myself. The greatest benefit that I drew from it was that in the midst of thirty thousand prisoners I was the only man who was not one.” — Oliver Messiaen, speaking about his “Quatuor pour la fin du temps,” which he composed while in a POW camp during WWII.

Also rest assured this shall not become a schlong museum from hell. There are a lot of underrated female composers.

Hear hear!

a schlong museum from hell

must admit that I'm intrigued by this idea

I have posted this before but...

Olivier Messiaen / ‘Louange à l’Éternité de Jésus’ from Quatuor pour la fin du temps arranged for choir ensemble(!!!!)

performed & arranged by Hans-Christoph Rademann & Dresdner Kammerchor

I listened to both recordings. But I think I will need to listen again as nothing stood out on first listen.

I actually bought the Schnittke cd today because of this thread! Hey it's Naxos, only £6 a pop and I've never even heard him before. Will attempt to listen tomorrow at work and report back.

xxp that arrangement for choir sounds wonderful coming out my tinny laptop speakers

Isn't it beautiful?

Would I be right in thinking that classical music sounds better live at a performance than on lp/cd/mp3?

Yes.

You have to get used to it being unamplified, which can be a problem from the back of large concert halls sometimes.

And the seats at the front will be highly expensive?

People will hate me for this, but I wish there were more recordings of classical which were actually compressed.

dont tell sick mouthy!

Hm, I tend to side with Scik Mouthy on the compression issue but I do actually know what you're talking about. Sometimes it seems like it would be nice to play a Sciarrino CD in the car after Autechre or Bill Frisell or whatever. Or even just to be able to listen intently on headphones without jumping when a sforzando appears. How much can this be accommodated while preserving the dynamic range and timbral integrity of classical music though? The majority of 'serious' music recordings do seem to be made for studious rather than for casual listening. Should art music adapt here?

Some of Robert Normandeau's electroacoustic recordings do seem to manage to be well-suited to relatively 'casual' listening while preserving dynamic range.

You are so OTM. e.g., I can't listen to something like Berg's Lulu suite in peace without knowing that I'll eventually be terribly frightened by some sudden scream. Or just in general, I'm always turning the volume down during climaxes, etc. :(

It's more annoying than those impossibly loud adverts that come on tv!

Holy shit, I wasn't expecting to love the Schnittke this much!

:D I demand feedback.

no

Soon soon-- but first, I have added a link to the Monodies for Ondes Martenot (with an extra piece for Ondes and harpsichord) as a comment on the same page. My rips from the almost-apocryphal Accord set..

I was just uploading that! haha you beat me to it

Mmmm. L'Album de Lilian is lovely.

Hmm, everyone seems too busy for this thread.

Turangalila, is it okay if someone does an emergency mini-pick until Jon posts his, to keep the thread going?

yes of course

If someone has picks at the ready I don't mind. I know I am running late. Only have to write a little intro thingy for my 2 but it keeps now being the right time (discipline probs this wkend)

Yes and by the way, who else wants to sign up for an upcoming week?

Ollright, I'll limit this to just one piece.

Ernest Bloch - String Quartet No. 1 (1916), performed by the Griller Quartet

From Allmusic:

This work was written at a turbulent times for both Bloch and the World. Composition commenced in 1915 with a war raging in Europe. Bloch moved to the United States for the first time before completing the writing of this work in 1916. Bloch described this work as:" a kind of synthesis of my vision of the world at that period."

Any fans of early Schoenberg/Bartók's quartets need to hear this.

Wow sounds cool! Will listen today. The description makes it sound like a good mate for one of my 2.

Any thoughts on the Bloch SQ?

It sounded great. I want to listen some more before I comment further.

The Bloch Quartet is amazing! A real hidden treasure. How have I never of this?! It doesn't even seem to have been recorded very many times.

The early Schoenberg comparison is apt-- the opening of the piece makes me think of ASCH's Op. 10, with the stacking up of close intervals and the scattering mournful gestures. But the work goes on to become much more frenetic and angry than ASCH Op. 10-- in fact by the end of the piece I felt like I had heard an uncanny (but superior) prefigurement of Shostakovich, with the furious demonic repeated figures and long moans of dissonant intervals. Shostakovich must have studied this music, I feel. This is quite an epic isn't it? Upwards of 40 minutes? Really great ending, becalmed and strange. This will go into permanent listening rotation for me. Time to go read archived Bloch reviews on Fanfare.

This is also my first exposure to the Griller Quartet, who seem perfect for this music, and the 50s technology flatters their sound nicely-- no complaints about sound quality here.

On to my two picks. Like I mentioned before, these both come from what I consider the greatest of all musical generations, the international wave of composers born 1860-1870 who reached their first flush of power in the early 1890s. It's my opinion that everything which happened in 20th century classical music was in some sense following up the various threads this generation left dangling.

1. Carl Nielsen - Symphony No. 5 (1920-1922)

This is surely Top 10 Symphonies of the Century material. I looked up some of the things Nielsen himself said about this piece, and they jibe so well with my inchoate notions about it that I'm gonna let him do the talking:

Nielsen affirmed that the Fifth Symphony, like his previous symphonies, presents "the only thing that music in the end can express: resting forces in contrast to active ones." In a statement to his student Ludvig Dolleris, Nielsen described the symphony as "the division of dark and light, the battle between evil and good" and the opposition between "Dreams and Deeds". To Hugo Seligman he described the contrast between "vegetative" and "active" states of mind in the symphony.

Nielsen also wrote to Dolleris about the presence of the "evil" motif in the first movement of the Fifth Symphony:

"Then the "evil" motif intervenes - in the woodwind and strings - and the side drum becomes more and more angry and aggressive; but the nature-theme grows on, peaceful and unaffected, in the brass. Finally the evil has to give way, a last attempt and then it flees - and with a strophe thereafter in consoling major mode a solo clarinet ends this large idyll-movement, an expression of vegetative (idle, thoughtless) Nature."

"I'm rolling a stone up a hill, I'm using the powers in me to bring the stone to the top. The stone lies there so still, powers are wrapped in it, until I give it a kick and the same powers are released and the stone rolls down again. But you mustn't take that as a programme!"

This newspaper report of an early performance is precious:

Midway through the first part with its rattling drums and 'cacophonous' effects a genuine panic broke out. Around a quarter of the audience rushed for the exits with confusion and anger written over their faces, and those who remained tried to hiss down the 'spectacle', while the conductor Georg Schneevoigt drove the orchestra to extremes of volume. This whole intermezzo underlined the humoristic-burlesque element in the symphony in such a way that Carl Nielsen could certainly never have dreamed of. His representation of modern life with its confusion, brutality and struggle, all the uncontrolled shouts of pain and ignorance—and behind it all the side drum's harsh rhythm as the only disciplining force—as the public fled, made a touch of almost diabolic humour.

You won't need me to point out the episode with the renegade drummer once you've listened. I will say this is the one aspect which I have not found satisfying on several otherwise great recordings. I want that drummer to be wilder, more obstinate, more wrong vis a vis what everyone else is doing!

2. Claude Debussy - Sonata for Flute, Viola and Harp (1915)

When Debussy came into his amazing late style (exemplified by the Etudes, the chamber sonatas, and Jeux for orchestra) he was already wasting away from rectal cancer, and the great contraption of death was already being cranked into motion to grind his country into meat and mud. I can't imagine how agonizing and depressing it must have been to die slowly of cancer with the medical sophistication of that time while a new kind of satanic free-for-all heated up all around you. Yet Debussy's music of this time is so incredibly wise and forgiving and eloquent and economical yet at the same time startlingly inventive. He planned a whole series of chamber sonatas for different instrumental combinations, but the only ones he lived to complete were those for Violin and Piano, Cello and Piano, and this trio sonata, which to me is the most miraculous of all. His mastery here is like Shakespeare, he gets so much experience into these short movements, so many characters are drawn so concisely. It lives.

When I get home tonight I'll be uploading a fierce recent live performance of the Nielsen and a wonderful out-of-print recording of the Debussy. It's remarkable how well the Bloch SQ fits with these 2 actually!

Sorry I took so long!

Those are excellent choices, Jon. Also, I agree about the recording of the Bloch quartet. It's marvelous.

Carl n' Claude

Those are two of my favorite pieces of all time, Jon! The Nielsen 5th moves with an inevitability like a force of nature, and the ending is one of the most thrilling in music, period. The Debussy sonata is also incredible and quietly revolutionary. I love its ambiguous and sphinxlike character — can only imagine where his music would go from here had he lived a fuller life.

The performers in the above link are Horenstein/New Philharmonia (live BBC) for the Nielsen, and several members of the Kuijken family on the Debussy, from a great family-affair Arcana CD of the almost complete chamber music (Sigiswald and Barthold Kuijken, young Piet Kuijken on fortepiano, Marie Hallynck on harp and Sophie Hallynck on flute. Or maybe that's Sophie on harp and Marie on flute).

Just finished listening to a tremendous (web)radio broadcast recording of the Nielsen 5th by Dudamel and the formidable Goteborg SO. Rebellious side-drum not quite as disruptive as I would wish, as usual, but otherwise a totally killer performance.

Interesting blog entry on the idea of a composer's 'late style' as we were just discussing re: Debussy--

http://kennethwoods.net/blog1/2010/06/09/future-performers-perspective-mahler-10-am-i-late-yet/

Excellent article. Another composer who had an interesting late style is Fauré — e.g. his string quartet, one of the last pieces he wrote, is wonderfully enigmatic and haunting.

The other recent post on that site about Mahler 10 and its connections to Parsifal and Don Quixote is also excellent. I'm gonna be exploring that site further.

Okay, the recording of Nielsen 5 at the top of this page, guys, I heartily endorse THIS renegade side-drummer, he stirs shit up:

http://when-the-musics-over.blogspot.com/search/label/nielsen

The conductor is the little-heralded Ole Schmidt. I also have an el cheapo disc with Schmidt conducting the RPO in Sibelius' 5th which is one of my top 5 versions of that piece. Schmidt just died a few months ago after a long life in music-- hats off to you, sir, you were a badass.

Also that entire blog there is a fucking treasure trove. This fellow has excellent taste.

I wish I was using a computer that can download (borrowing my friend's), otherwise I'd love to hear this stuff.

Is anyone else going to do another week or should we ditch the "weekly picks" pretense since not many seem interested.

I'm interested, of course. I've just been busy. I plan to catch up on the last set of picks soon. (Loved the "Glagolitic Mass" too BTW.)

Well if there were more people interested then it wouldn't matter if one or two people were busy or whatever. Maybe I should just start uploading shit I like and if anyone latches on, good for them.

lol yes

But are we going to anger les Mods that way? Maybe we need to link to other locations where the actual DL links are? Or is ILX policy relaxing on that point?

Also do we wanna make this the general classickqal discussion thread or shall we keep using the other general one as well? Bcuz I have a bunch of stuff I wanna talk about not related to the specific pieces we've cited itt...

(btw that blog i just linked to today has some very nice Schumann stuff put up in honor of RSCH's 200th bday...)

I dunno. Sometimes I wonder if this forum is the right environment for CM.

First time I've seen anyone use the acronym RSCH btw. :)

yeah idk anymore either

I use RSCH, FSCH, and ASCH in addition to the common DSCH.

I'm in a Yahoo group, classical-recordings, which is pretty lively, but it is also kind of biased toward piano and chamber repertoire. I'm trying to spark more discussion of symphonic/orchestral rep there. It is, of course, more fogeyish than here. I like talking CM with ppl who also like The Fall & shit!

If I start a CM & Film Scores blog would you guys be willing to haunt it?

No, this thread has been great for me. I think it's good to keep this going on ILM.

*fist bump*

Jon Lewis, absofuckinglutely re: your blog

But are we going to anger les Mods that way? Maybe we need to link to other locations where the actual DL links are? Or is ILX policy relaxing on that point?

What's mod policy on uploading past classical recordings? One would have thought a policy would apply to records not released yet?

Maybe I should just start uploading shit I like and if anyone latches on, good for them.

Although there isn't really any need to put up lots of music. You can just talk about it?

I dunno. Sometimes I wonder if this forum is the right environment for CM.

There are plenty of threads talking about composers. There aren't many that are over 50 posts. There is more of a potential for response because of a mix of all types of threads on all sorts of music. A relaxed attitude but then less traffic is the trade-off...

as a mod, I'm personally into what y'all are doing here

is xyzzzz__ a mod?

oh, this is Daruton btw

crossposts — re: other forums: yeah. I'm on the good-music-guide classical forum which is also pretty active, but yes, a much older crowd that are mostly interested in recordings. Also the non-classical stuff they listen to is fairly predictable Boomer music (weirdly, still true even if they aren't boomers).

Not a mod, no, which is why I was checking on mod policy.

I've been on the Radio 3 boards for a bit, then others as the boards fragmented round the time of changes at Radio 3. But that was way after ILX. Plenty of threads around, but there has often never been enough people to post on them. Many of them have been on the post-2nd Viennese school.

And the number of threads that can be paraphrased as "I don't get CM and I don't care to ever get it" outnumbers the threads of genuine interest.

but hey we should try to change that, right?

Is this yr permanent new name Daru?

Yeah, my IRL name.

ppl who post under their real names = disgusting savages imo :)

And the number of threads that can be paraphrased as "I don't get CM and I don't care to ever get it" outnumbers the threads of genuine interest.

Most classical threads are met with indifference by the majority because people don't go out of their way to hear recordings. But if you want to pretend the above is true be my guest.

yeah I can only remember two threads like that.

Could I have a week? Got some nice ideas...

From Drag City, so watch out, walkers:

AIN'T NUTHIN' BUT A

P STRANG

LISTEN TO

"FLIGHT PATH"

HERE

https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a3253993937_10.jpg

Drag City is excited to introduce Resolve, the first release of new music from Arnold Dreyblatt & The Orchestra of Excited Strings since 2002.

Dreyblatt’s minimalist conception - a rhythmic drone played on a double-bass strung with piano wire, playing in concert with other stringed instruments performing in 20 unequal microtones per octave and changing key but keeping the same fundamental pitch - dates back to the 1970s, while he studied under La Monte Young and Pauline Oliveros. Resolve acts in intermittent dialogue with the first Orchestra of Excited Strings release, 1982’s Nodal Excitation.

Since then, Dreyblatt has formed new orchestras across various countries and decades, with each phase of his music requiring several overlapping periods of gestation and arrangement. The current Orchestra is formed by Konrad Sprenger, Joachim Schütz and Oren Ambarchi. On Resolve, each of the members' playing brings new angles to the compositions. Konrad Sprenger's involves solenoids, sine waves and a computer-controlled multi-channel electric guitar (as well as a relentless style behind the drum kit and oversight of the album production), while Joachim Schütz’s individual conception of electronics and electric guitar and Oren Ambarchi’s undeniable innovations with signal path work together with Dreyblatt’s bass (still strung with piano wire) as magnetic component parts of Resolve.

These contributions lead to Resolve's dialogue with the early Orchestra of Excited Strings canon - for instance, the track previewed here, "Flight Path" takes off at a pace not often found in the minimalist genre — a rolling lope! Yet the sense of play is palpable: the ensemble scale their microtonal keys with punkish brio, a stance sharing much with the original Orchestra’s downtown pulse, even as as the new Orchestra burn their own path through Dreyblatt's music.

Approaching his 70th birthday, with over 40 years of work as a solo artist, collaborator, composer, educator and bandleader, Arnold Dreyblatt views Resolve as an important expression within the long story of The Orchestra of Excited Strings. The album title’s tendency to mean different things is an indicator of the dynamic qualities of his music in all its different phases — an evolution that continues to produce new dimensions in acoustic sound with every new release. Pre-order Resolve on LP now! It hits the streets August 18th.

Drag City again: Listen To Arnold Dreyblatt's "Shuffle Effect" Here:
https://lnk.to/dreyblattresolve

Resolve acts in dialogue with the minimalist inspirations of the first Arnold Dreyblatt & The Orchestra of Excited Strings release, 1982’s Nodal Excitation – in effect, looking beneath the hood of several decades of progression to review and renew the revolutionary intent of their microntonal foundation credo. This new Orchestra – Oren Ambarchi, Konrad Sprenger and Joachim Schütz – combine effortlessly to explore new scalar dimensions.

The compositions found within Resolve demonstrate the Orchestra’s unique feel — incorporating rhythmic accents that act as microbeats within Dreyblatt’s microtones, shuffling in accents of funk and rock and actual metal at times, while never deviating from the driving intensity of the harmonic play. Dreyblatt's double-bass strung with piano wire allows him to create rich, complex, and often mesmerizing sonic textures.

On the single "Shuffle Effect", Arnold’s strummed bass sets the tone – a metallic march – and the Orchestra falls into step, pushing the boundaries of traditional musical systems and opening up new possibilities for exploring the nuances of pitch and harmony. The result is thick, rolling intra-funk, as strings and electronics parse together in a series of new-phase bar divisions for the venerable Orchestra of Excited Strings. The mood is one of tumescence, the performance growing within itself, as Dreyblatt’s tradition does as well: 40 years and counting.

Listen for this unique compositional approach on "Shuffle Effect" above, Resolve arrives on August 18th.

Arnold Dreyblatt Online:

Drag City -https://www.dragcity.com/artists/arnold-dreyblatt

For more information and interview requests please contact:

kathryn at dragcity dot com

Interestingly, I was discovering most of the recordings upthread about the same time these posters were. The Kronos "Black Angels" is intense, threatening almost.