do you care if bands/artists are assholes?

what bands have you ever stopped listening to/decided not to listen to because the artist/band members seemed like/are bad people who you wouldn't like if you knew them irl? this has been on my mind bcuz of crystal castles & also because of Dom, the hyped band w/ the lead review on pfork today that has a lead singer who purposefully comes off like a snotty douche (he's prob decent in reality). also the black lips, can't really get behind them cuz they're bullies, and also the faggot thing. double standard prob since i listen to tons of rap, but w/e. anyway, what is your stance on perceived or actual personality traits and how it affects how you listen? i have a feeling most ppl are gonna say they don't care, but i'm kind of a feeble person in general.

sorry if there's another thread on this.

I don't have to hang out with them so no I don't care

exceptions made for nazis and people with overly loathsome politics

I've read so many bios of jazz assholes (whose artistic output I admire) that when I finally encounter somebody who seems like they were decent, or at least non-assholes it just makes me like them all the more.

jazzholes

Not really, unless their assholedom comes across in their lyrics, in which case fuck that noise.

i think there are a bunch of threads on this, but it really doesn't bother me at all.

Indeed, if assholishness comes across in the music, I'm out. (xp)

exceptions made for nazis and people with overly loathsome politics

This plus child molestors.

i enjoy comic assholishness in music. I guess it depends on who is getting the brunt of the assholishness.

This plus child molestors.

Gary Glitter
Michael Jackson
Jerry Lee Lewis
tons of others

I'm about 95% don't-care. In a couple of cases (Zorn, Zappa), their assholishness prompted me to step back from early fanboy status and reassess the work with a more objective ear. Now I'm probably bigger fans of their work while being less impressed/fannish of the artists themselves.

not that i was a huge fan or anything before, but i can't really listen to broken social scene after seeing them play a free show put on by a university.

the whole time they were extremely condescending towards the crowd, people who were STOKED to see them, about how privileged they were and just general rudeness. there was a mud pit from the rain and i had to restrain myself from lobbing some at them. i left instead

I wonder if sporting venues could be convinced to stop playing rock & roll pt. 2 if instead of shouting "HEY", people in the stands shouted "HEY ANOTHER QUARTER FOR MOLESTER GARY GLITTER"

i actually have a longer leash for people who seem nice (r. kelly) but so fucked up shit, to people who don't do fucked up shit but just come off as total dickwads (50 cent)

do fucked up shit*

swagger and cockiness on stage is fine, being an asshole 1 on 1 is fine, too

i just can't take insulting the crowd who supports you and gave you the popularity that you have

was there anything about the crowd that merited being assholes to them?

Gary Glitter
Michael Jackson
Jerry Lee Lewis
tons of others

I'll listen to younger MJ. I hadn't really thought about Lewis...that kinda sucks. It would be kinda impossible to stop listening to him because he's so goddamn good.

what exactly did BSS do/say, Future_Perfect?

sad to say if you threw out all your records by pedos you'd lose a lot of good ones

imagine life without gary puckett and the union gap

Whatty Whuckett?

xpost ksh

they had a condescending air about them the entire time, definitely looked like they didn't want to be there. saying stuff like "WOW, you guys must have a lot of money to put on a show like this *rolling eyes*" and "you know, when you graduate, you'll finally have to deal with the REAL world *LOLz from the band*" and variations thereof

oh man, that's awful

Seriously Brio - who else are a lot of good ones?

well if we're including banging underage teenagers um the list is REALLY long

not that it's so horrible as to preclude listening to them or anything - but I had a Broken Social Scene run-in that soured me on them too.

I was talking to a friend of mine at a bar. The guy sitting next to us chimes in to our conversation a couple of times, no problem friendly enough

I go to the bathroom and the following conversation happens:

him: hi i'm so and so
her: hi nice to meet you
awkward pause
him: ok ok, i'm so and so from broken social scene
her: oh
him: just wanted to get that over with
her: what?
him: i didn't want you to, like, realize who i was later and go "oh shit! i just met so and so from BSS"
awkward laugh
silence
he finishes his drink and leaves

sounds like they're taking they're name a lil too literally

ok ok, i'm so and so from broken social scene
good line. most canadians could say this though, right?

kinda depends - i don't care about just assholishness unless it comes across in the lyrics and is really un-self-aware, cf a ton of unpleasant passive-aggressive indie dudes masquerading as "sensitive". situations where it actually undercuts what the artist wants to convey. but in the main, i don't get people who seem to want their artists to be bff material.

criminal shit, different matter, prob depends entirely on the music if i'm being honest - can listen to r kelly, mystikal, michael jackson, remy ma with no problems, would feel icky about gary glitter. haven't actually got over the chris brown thing yet, which surprises me - have just been totally repelled by his voice since the rihanna incident.

a ton of unpleasant passive-aggressive indie dudes masquerading as "sensitive"

lex, could you give a few examples to illustrate what you mean by this?

Actually, I totally forgot that I even used to like Chris Brown. Damn...

good point tyler - come to think of it, i still have no idea if dude actually was from broken social scene, i shouldn't hold it against them

he did have a beard and a dumb hat though

but so do most canadians

do you care if bands/artists are canadians?

http://www.exclaim.ca/images/up-2brendan.jpg

?

lex, could you give a few examples to illustrate what you mean by this?

not offhand and while getting ready to go out, soz

xp nah, i'd recognize that dude

Alex Chilton: Kiddie-Fiddler!

(file under "journalists I refuse to read because they are fuckwits")

I challoply don't even like Big Star all that much, but I that article's retarded.

xpost
I only care that The Poppy Family are Canadian, and it makes my heart swell with pride.

Gary Glitter
Michael Jackson
Jerry Lee Lewis
tons of others
Um, Jerry Lee has many sins notched on his belt but labeling him a child molester is a bit of a stretch, no? Yes, his marriage to Myra Gale (I'm assuming this is what you're referring to) was controversial but it wasn't like anything was done without her consent.

elvis too - he was "dating" priscilla when she was underage

'"WOW, you guys must have a lot of money to put on a show like this *rolling eyes*" and "you know, when you graduate, you'll finally have to deal with the REAL world *LOLz from the band*" and variations thereof'

Was this a public or private university?

As long as their asshole attitudes don't make it into their lyrics, then no problem. Prince, Liam Gallagher Rick Wakeman. All assholes. All involved in great music.

mm I don't really pay too close attention to all the bands and artists I listen to and their attitudes unless I am really really really into them and even then I wouldn't actually be able to tell whether they are huge jerks or not because I don't actually know them. If the lyrics are ass hole-ish then I usually won't listen to the artist or band anymore though... wellllll, a lot of songs that come on the radio on the 2 r&b stations in my town can have offensive lyrics but I still listen to and enjoy the songs (though I usually change the station during "my chick's bad" when Luda starts talking about being a certified stripper and might just tipping her because it makes me feel weird.)

so yes. I care a little bit.

wait wait. Michael Jackson? He's an asshole? What? Ok I don't care at all. Only if the lyrics are dick-ish.

Rick Wakeman needed to be an asshole to play like that.

maybe not even then. Unless they are really really offensive. liiiiiike icp. I will never ever ever listen to that.

xpost

private university, and an expensive one at that

BUT the show was FREE and open to the public. i wasn't even a student and i was stoked that there was a free BSS show

oh shoot xpost

wait wait. Michael Jackson? He's an asshole? What? Ok I don't care at all. Only if the lyrics are dick-ish.

Like "Heal The World" and "Earth Song"? :)

Some of my favorite artists are assholes: Lennon - asshole, James Brown - asshole, Charles Mingus - asshole, Mark E. Smith - asshole, Captain Beefheart - asshole, etc, etc,... But in their defense, a lot of the perceived prickliness comes from an unwillingness to compromise a particular artist vision. Of course, being difficult with producers, engineers, band members, or record execs is a different type of assholism than just being randomly nasty to whoever's in your verbal of fire. That IMHO is less forgivable.

I know everyone here has a boner for Gucci Mane, but I haven't been able to get that excited about him after watching a YouTube video of him punching a woman in the face at a show.

Some of my favorite artists are assholes: Lennon - asshole, James Brown - asshole, Charles Mingus - asshole, Mark E. Smith - asshole, Captain Beefheart - asshole, etc, etc,... But in their defense, a lot of the perceived prickliness comes from an unwillingness to compromise a particular artist vision.

I guess that is why I strongly dislike most of those. I don't like purism.

lmbo

I'm a huge Beefheart fan and found it tough to read about his manipulative, sometimes abusive treatment of the Magic Band.

xxxpost

Geir, what kind of music do you like, then?

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

OH SHIT DON'T GO THERE

Did I do something wrong?

Geir's a purist when it come to melody and he absolutely hates James Brown.

i'm pretty much really arbitrary with this. there are bands i like in spite of being assholes, and bands i like more because they are assholes, and bands i like a little bit less once i find out they're assholes.

Melody purist? Like that all songs must have a melody?

xp yeah i kinda feel that way a lot of the time

i'm sure brad nowell's soiled undergarments is a nice person, but suggest banned for that geir question obv

bnsu geir loves melody and complex harmony, cares fuck-all for rhythm, loves some prog and highly-melodic pop/rock, and hates james brown

and every thread where we discuss this gets retarded which is why ppl are yelling @ u

if you do some searching in the archives i'm sure you will find more on this topic

OIC - lol, my apologies, now I know better. I was just curious because I LOVE James Brown, John Lennon, and Captain Beefheart. Though to be honest with Beefheart it is more 'like' than 'love'.

speaking of assholes, Bradley Nowell was my cousin. could you please change your username?

j/k ;)

LOL I started to feel really bad for a second!

Anybody have any examples of run-ins with artists who were really nice?

several years ago the walkmen were really nice to this bumbling fanboy despite having just having their show mangled by incompetent sound tech

bob weir is a really nice dude.

sure--rob lowe was nice, tim midgett was nice, the drones were really nice despite me being one of three people showing up to see them

http://images.philsfiles.info/napster-lars.jpg

i love Metallica

not that he's an ass in general, but about the whole Napster thing was a bit loooooooooool

Geir's a purist when it come to melody

If that was the case, then I'd refuse to listen to anything but pre-rock torch albums.

i love Torche

Tod Ashley from cop shoot cop/firewater is one of the nicest dudes ive ever met

How about the opposite? Really nice and sympathetic people that make awful music? I guess that may be just as hard to handle, not least for those who work as music journalists?

Really nice and sympathetic people that make awful music?

I think this is probably a much higher percentage than the assholes, really. I can't tell you how many mediocre to shitty opening bands I've seen, then later bumped into members who were exceptionally nice.

Dudes, I work in a guitar store. how much time you got?

Just give us the greatest hits.

I interviewed Payrock Wolf a few years ago; he was meant to be an enormous asshole but he was a sweetie with me.

No one has mentioned Axl Rose yet? Not as huge a fan as I was when I was 13, but that's more to do with the decline in his work than him being the biggest asshole out there.

Axl Rose's "sex rap" is the work of a grade A asshole, but also one of the funniest things ever. All musicians are entertainers to some degree, and often seeing someone being a dickhead is entertaining, as long as you're not on the receiving end.

It stops being entertaining and starts being troubling when you get into the territory already alluded too (far right politics, dodgy sexual proclivities etc.)

Although I can't claim any evidence for this I'd say a song like One In A Million probably has a much more negative effect on more people than, say, De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas by Mayhem for example. Unless you happen to be a Norwegian vicar. As a rule people tend not to listen to Burzum and then go out and try and annexe Poland but Cutty Ranks' Limb By Limb, probably does give weight to homophobic tendencies.

Also, who gives a fuck what band leaders do band members? Musicians can leave if they want. The idea that, in this day and age, people haven't got a clue what it will be like when they join The Fall makes *me* want to torture them. The story about Trout Mask Replica is an interesting one but I'm guessing it would have been slightly easier to leave that situation than an open prison, say. On the other side of the line is unapologetic violence towards fans etc. That Gucci Mane thing is appalling but he's by no means on his own there.

Yeah "One in a Million" certainly crossed that line.

As a rule people tend not to listen to Burzum and then go out and try and annexe Poland but Cutty Ranks' Limb By Limb, probably does give weight to homophobic tendencies.

Ehh I'm not sure about that at all tbh - Limb By Limb seems like a pretty iconic song that for whatever reson has v much transcended what it's actually about - in fact I'd prolly say that nominally liberal minded ppl listen to it w/ the same peace of mind as they do Burzum, as they don't often have much of a handle on the lyrics

Has anyone ever read Burzum lyrics? None of it is racist or political. The guy himself and his books is another thing, but the Burzum project is as non-political as any Manowar record.

Manowar's politics: death penalty, but only in the case of false metal.

xp yeah totally, I didn't express that very well - I guess the point is more that the delivery lends itself to a detachment on the listener's part from what these guys believe/advocate

To be a performing musician, you have to have some kind of inflated ego. At the very least when you're performing, it probably enhances the performance to go into this ego zone. This performing zone is most likely where the public will encounter the musician. Add in booze & drugs and no doubt many musicians act like assholes.

To be a performing musician, you have to have some kind of inflated ego.

I think that's kinda not true at all

It takes some to want to get up in front of everyone else and show off for 30mins to an hour, making sure everyone's attention is solely on you. Otherwise you would just be content to play music by yourself.

bullshit

I have never met one performing musician whose ego to some extent or other I wouldn't describe as more in need of reaffirmation than the egos of normal people. that this doesn't spring from self-esteem but from its inverse seems self-evident to me, but then again, I have opportunity to be thinkin about this kinda shit all day every day. I must say, when I was new at it, I used to argue v. strongly that there's no reason a performing artist can't be a totally normal person. I don't believe that at all any more - I think performing a lot in front of audiences effects changes on a person, and I can't really even begin to imagine what those changes must be like for the genuinely famous, except to say that they would have to be seismic, traumatic, and permanent.

was hoping you'd weigh in on this, and "I have never met one performing musician whose ego to some extent or other I wouldn't describe as more in need of reaffirmation than the egos of normal people. that this doesn't spring from self-esteem but from its inverse seems self-evident to me" confirms my general thinking/suspicions (living in a household with two people who are compelled to creative activity, sometimes to their own distress).