JS Bach, Mozart or Beethoven

gonna go with my man ludwig
http://cdn.newsone.com/files/2008/10/death-by-beethoven.jpg

Bach all the way

You've got them in the order I'd vote, but Bach and Mozart are a lot closer and occasionally they swap places.

Beethoven's best bits are up there but he can't compete for breadth imo

^^^crazy talk, no great composer ever wrote masterpieces in so many different genres and modes.

This afternoon it happens to be Mozart, but most days it's Beethoven. All the hagiographical purple prose of two centuries can't diminish the intensity and variety of LvB's achievement. As my buddy said about Shakespeare once, how the fuck did he happen?

I like all three but I have a particular soft spot for Bach.

Mozart by a nose then Bach then Beethoven.

Bach once again it's the renegade Mozart

It's very de gustibus, I mean I can't sit here and front like LvB was the BEST of these three. He keeps me alive the most of the three, I guess.

who would win in a fight though is the question. heard bach pulled a dagger on a bassoonist one time, but beethoven seems like he would get all ARAAGGGGGHHHH. Mozart obv wasn't a fighter.

Mozart would get off the best hardzings if it was an ILX beef.

Bach = probably got angry only like once every 4 years but when he did, FUCKING SCARY.

http://irom.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/j-s-bach3.jpg
you do not want to tangle with this motherfucker

play pussy, get fucked, to quote Bushwick Bill.

Beethoven = Mingus, Bach = Ellington, Mozart = Monk

Didn't Bach write his name into the Goldberg Variations? Also, his harpsichord & violin fugues = HEAVEN.

Bach easily. The only one that's ever meant anything to me, and although I hardly ever listen to him lately, I can easily see coming back around to him. He has an advantage in the way his music can be transcribed for an endless array of different instruments and still sound fine. I like the way Bach sounds like he is just tapping into an eternally flowing stream of music.

Have to underplay my appreciation of Bach round my dad to avoid the evangelism that comes w/ a lifetime of adoration but I'm least ignorant & most appreciative of his music.

Mozart for joy, Beethoven for beauty & triumph but Bach = the kind of total freedom from ego and self that usually only comes after about three to five hits and I have clocked more hours of listening to his music than the other two by at least a factor of ten, it's just the truth

love all three but Beethoven reaches me most - as much as I love Bach, and I do, especially the vocal music, Beethoven's late quartets. There is nothing really like them anywhere.

yeah that ain't no bullshit

bach. there's a prodigiousness of playful joy in his music nobody else can match. and js pretty much started everything up. when those other two are at their best though they scale his heights for sure. and nobody brings aching poignance like ludwig. still, have to give it to jsb

Bach = the kind of total freedom from ego and self that usually only comes after about three to five hits

Bach sounds like he is just tapping into an eternally flowing stream of music

the immediate problem with this view of bach as denatured and separate from the more-or-less dignified tumult of existence is that it make all other music seem ephemeral, and eventually it approaches a sort of eschatology (some people have thought bach=god haven't they?)

I agree with Milton Parker, as much as I really, really love a lot of Mozart and Beethoven.

bach=horndog. 20 kids? damn

bach, I just love his almost-aspie obsession with arpeggio progressions and the never-ending climb etc.

plus he's been the source of so many joyful puns over the years you just gotta figure he's the all around real deal

http://anet.net/users/rima/web/bach_shades.jpg

bach is also an awesome plot device in one or more neal stephenson books

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipzR9bhei_o

maybe the coolest youtube in the history of youtubes

bach please

Mozart all the way!

Geir, Haydn did the symphony before Mozart. Therefore, according to you, Haydn is better.

Mozart was more influenced by the Beatles, though.

seriously though it makes perfect sense to me that geir likes mozart. lyrical melodies + arguably did much to refine the symphonic form

would enjoy classical music a lot more if every piece had an accompanying youtube just like the one dyao posted

beethoven because i like romanticism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xdQNrk9lcI

Curse you, youtube! Yarblockos!!

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/2700000/Ludwig-Van-a-clockwork-orange-2750754-480-640.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kzno3worfA1qzcigmo1_500.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG1wuVE3RSY&feature=player_embedded

Impossible. But I'm partial to this guy because of his enduring melodic grace no matter where or when:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpFPW8zIWD8

Mozart had the best melodies (well, at least he had the MOST great melodies). But that isn't enough to compete with Beethoven or Bach, since they had an amazing melodic sense COMBINED with other qualities that placed them a cut above.

Bach vs. Beethoven is very close. Bach was the more prolific composer, a more natural musical genius, and wrote the most awe-inspiring vocal music I have ever heard (for instance, St. Matthew's Passion blows away Missa Solemnis).

But ultimately I have to go with Beethoven, because at his best (which was often) he combined musical genius with melody AND an unprecedented intensity of feeling and expression -- in other words, he combined the best attributes of Bach and Mozart and then added even more emotional depth. Listening to his late string quartets or piano sonatas provides a musical experience that I just don't think Bach ever quite reaches. Mozart certainly doesn't.

does this triumvirate still work? like is beethoven sufficiently ahead of his near-contemporaries (eg schubert) to be included at their expense?

like is beethoven sufficiently ahead of his near-contemporaries (eg schubert) to be included at their expense?

yes, I think so - Schubert's statue continues to rise, each year it seems, and I don't know that Beethoven has any lieder that can compete with the Winterreise but Beethoven is still Beethoven & Schubert's still following his example in large part. And the late quartets, the late quartets. And the piano sonatas. They pass everybody and then do a victory lap.

Tend to agree this is really B vs. B but

Mozart for joy

"Schubert's statue continues to rise, each year it seems"

That sounds terrifying.

lol oops

I stand by my incomprehensibly large Schubert statue though

If I could only have one album it would be Murray Perahia's Goldberg Variations.

What is the definitive available version of the Bach catalog? I'm looking for a collection with "authentic" or "period performances", with the harpsichord and the stripped down orchestra and all that.

Simone Dinnerstein's The Berlin Concert is the most mindblowing Bach I have heard in a long, long, LONG time - it makes me wanna get all mystical about Bach, it's oceanic stuff for real. But it is on piano, not period instruments - I am not a big period-instruments guy, I love Bach on piano. The go-to guy right now is Herreweghe, I have his Jesu, Deine Passion and it's fantastic but I am fondest of McCreesh - his St John's Passion is incredible

I don't think there is a definitive whole-catalogue, Bach was a busy busy dude

xp Adam:

idk about "definitive" but these are great:

J.S. Bach's "Musical Offering" as conducted by Hermann Scherchen (Edition RZ)

Mass in B minor BWV 232, conducted by Joshua Rifkin

I'll have to check out the Berlin Dinnerstein recording ... loved her Goldberg Variations. I'm reading that recent Bach Cello Suites book currently. A little NPR-y, and a lot of speculation (i guess that comes with the territory) but a nice read so far.

Don't try to get a complete Bach edition, there isn't one which will bring you quality performances in all the genres and also you will get way too overwhelmed and probably end up barely scratching the surface.

Like underrated_aerosmith, I prefer the keyboard works on piano, but i have done a fair amount of listening to harpsichord versions as well. Here are some Bach recs for key works following your request for a Historically Informed Performance (HIP) approach:

Well-Tempered Clavier Books 1 and 2(harpsichord): one of the best is also one of the absolute cheapest: Christiane Jacottet on any number of different el cheapo labels. Also inexpensive and excellent is Kenneth Gilbert on DG Archiv.

Goldberg Variations (harpsichord): Pierre Hantai, or the inexpensive Gustav Leonhardt.

Partitas: (harpsichord): Trevor Pinnock on Hanssler

B Minor Mass: John Eliot Gardiner on DG Archiv or Diego Fasolis on Arts Music

A Musical Offering (chamber ensemble): Leonhardt and friends on Sony

Brandenburg Concerti and Orchestral Suites: Fasolis on Arts Music or Pinnock on Avie or the recent one on Harmonia Mundi whose conductor's name I can't remember.

General Cantatas: It's true, Herreweghe's series on Harmonia Mundi is awesome. Pick a couple at random. Herreweghe is ethereal and sublime-- another ongoing series, which is equally good but with a more biting, punchy approach is John Eliot Gardiner's series which started on DG and has now migrated onto his own label Soli Deo Gloria

Violin Concerti- Manze on Harmonia Mundi

Oh and--

Cello Suites: Cohen on bargain Virgin Classics or Wispelwey on Channel Classics (neither of these guys are actually playing a baroque cello but the style is v period-informed)

Solo Violin Sonatas & Partitas: all my recordings of these are fairly modern in style-- I like Gidon Kremer's most recent one on ECM and Lara St. John on her own label. For baroque violin a lot of people seem to go for Rachel Podger on Channel Classics.

Thank you so much! I will look into as many of these recommendations as i can!

I wish I could remember the hilariously terrible recording of Bach motets I bought on a whim because it was cheap; it featured possibly the worst boy choir in all of Austria and did everything practically at half tempo.

thanks for the recommendations Jon -- some of the Bach stuff can be overwhelming when you start looking into different versions.
and yeah, it is funny when you come across a really bad recording ... i'm by no means a classical aficionado, but there are a few where midway through I've thought: "wait a minute -- this is HORRIBLE."

http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Motets-225-230-Johann-Sebastian/dp/B00004S4MS/ref=sr_1_63?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1273169269&sr=1-63

This was the CD I picked up to replace the terrible one, which I still can't find boo

FYI to new Bach Cantatas listeners, the big monster hit is 'Ich Habe Genung' BWV 82-- you will probably recognize it and it deserves its status, incredible piece. Title translates as 'I've Had Enough' just to give you an idea of the sentiment put across...

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Hmmm. I haven't heard the recent Richard Egarr on Harmonia Mundi, Jon, but I have yet to find a recording of the Brandenburg Concerti that fully satisfies me. I don't know, a lot of them seem stilted & weirdly disjointed.

e.g., I usually love Pinnock (I love his recordings of Rameau) but today I heard like 12 different versions of the Affettuoso from the 5th, and the most compelling version so far has been the one by Academy of St. Martin-in-the-Fields, conducted by Neville Marriner.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

ha i think i forgot to vote but it wouldn't have made a difference for poor mozart

bullshit results, bach has some A+++++++ shit but tune for tune he is by far the most boring of the lot.

thanks to his prolificacy that might be a problem if you insisted on listening to all of his minor works, but his 'A+++++++ shit' alone probably amounts to about a day's worth of music

i mean, i haven't heard (m)any of his minor works and i've still found some of it boring but good point. there's probably a day's worth of organ pieces that would blow my mind i haven't gotten around to.

not sure anyone alive today heard everything bach wrote? by tune is a questionable listening strategy for someone w/ that approach to composition.

some nice numerical mirroring between bach & mozart (hmm what does it mean???)

Must be the hand of Bach's ghost at work.

ok, to clarify what i meant was the amount of bach songs that are exciting to me is relatively small when compared to the amount that are dull to me. obviously i haven't heard everything and i can't make any claim that the sample of bach works i've heard is representative of his entire oeuvre, but if anything it's more flattering since i've mostly heard major works.

Guys, I messed up in my recommendations upthread:

Cello Suites: Cohen KIRSCHBAUM on bargain Virgin Classics or Wispelwey on Channel Classics (neither of these guys are actually playing a baroque cello but the style is v period-informed)

I am not a racist I swear! Anyway Ralph Kirschbaum's yer man.

e.g., I usually love Pinnock (I love his recordings of Rameau) but today I heard like 12 different versions of the Affettuoso from the 5th, and the most compelling version so far has been the one by Academy of St. Martin-in-the-Fields, conducted by Neville Marriner.

It's a fact that the vintage Marriner/ASMF recordings are pretty underrated now due to their onetime ubiquity. Not long ago I was comparing their Mozart Symphony series with a bunch of others and they were really great.

let's all listen to Mozart this morning, he is so wonderful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LqdfjZYEVE

The most beautiful piece of music that Mozart ever composed.

mozart is so great

even better than genesis, arguably

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuFA3DmglwI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN8NA08iBBA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPQNATNOC6g

http://www.sylviaberry.org/images/js_and_cpe.jpg

awesome portrait!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5177JRWSNBL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

so, so, so, so fucking amazing

Indeed.

"not as cosmic as Bach"

Where is Mozart most cosmic? Apart from any consideration of his sacred music, maybe in his operas.

This might also be true of Handel.

(Including the oratorios in the category of "sacred music" for Handel, just to be clear.)

not sure i even voted in my old poll

it should have been for mozart tho

surprising!

Beethoven is my second-favorite musician (Schoenberg is the first).

I like early music, so Mozart for me feels like the first test as to whether something of the grandeur of court music was going to persist outside of the court. With Mozart, the answer seems to be a resounding yes.

(And where does that thread go from there? It goes to Mendelssohn - a "true heir to Mozart," in Busoni's terms.)

(Oy, not that I need be exclusive about it! The third movement of Beethoven's ninth was on the car radio just now and made me feel like eating my words a bit. I sometimes ask my daughter to guess which composer might have written a certain piece we're hearing. When I asked her with a passage of this movement playing just now she says, "Handel?")

In my mind, all three are unambiguous masters. However, none of them have a statue that threatens to engulf the Earth.

― it means "EMOTIONAL"! (HI DERE), Wednesday, May 5, 2010 3:10 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark

I was listening to Mozart and I remembered this post and lol'd so damn hard

this is a good one too

mozart is so great

even better than genesis, arguably

― The Managing Director of Being (nakhchivan), Thursday, September 30, 2010 7:56 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Wow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv5HmKomT7Y

In a POO by century I'm Bach (18) Chopin (19) Messaien (20) these days

mozart, liszt, stravinsky

LISZT wow, name a couple favourite works? I'm Liszt-stupid bc I hated playing that stuff

god i was going to do a thread last year with his bicentennial and the attendant attention

i am still sort of working my way through the minor liszt

the 'most important' for the usual reasons would probably be the sonata in b minor and the années de pèlerinage, the apex of his middle period

per century: bach, schubert, schoenberg

Scarlatti (18), Schubert (19), Sibelius (20), Saariaho (21)

Today, at least.

And I didn't do the 'S' thing on purpose :/

argue all day about who's the best MC
Ludwig, Mozart or Bach