taking sides: sandwell district vs t++

who is the true spirit of european techno in 2010?

sandwell district is killing it

care to elaborate on why this is an interesting comparison?

Yeah, I don't see the comparison really. T++ is great for what he does. Sandwell Dist. also great but doing something totally different.

i checked out one of the t++ things and its was some str8 up garbage bullshit

amirite moonship :D

i think you can almost break it down into three camps now, in terms of who's running tings euro techno style; sandwell district, the most obviously indebted to classic techno, the donato dozzy/cio d'or/prologue related stuff which is on a slightly cleaner more cerebral vibe, and then the perc trax/milton bradley/do not resist the beat stuff. this isn't definitive though, and there is obv quite a bit of overlap between the three (see cio d'or's latest ra mix for instance which is jam packed full of milton bradley stuff)

out of the three the latter group is the most interesting to me, particularly perc trax, which is my favourite record label in the world right now. it's the perfect balance of downwards records style industrial clunk'n'crunch, high-paced laser precise purpose maker era mills, and the dark ambient side of chain reaction

i'm not sure where t++ fits in, hasn't he finished that project now?

also, milton bradley put out a remix this year on prologue which kinda puts paid to my theory i guess. i need to think about this more

donato dozzy/cio d'or/prologue related stuff which is on a slightly cleaner more cerebral vibe

"hypnotic techno", "headfuck techno", etc ... is it a real genre?

yeah i think there's a lot of overlap between the last two styles you listed

but what about the ostgut ton camp? stuff like shed?

site:residentadvisor.net "hypnotic techno"

About 169 results (0.19 seconds)

post-minimal?

i don't think it's a genre, it just gets slightly more press than other strains of modern techno. if perc trax was more popular then people would be saying like "crunch step" or something

xpost

yeah i guess shed and dettman and klock and all that stuff belong somewhere in between prologue and sandwell district? although shed's stuff (esp the eqd and wax stuff) is more indebted to classic techno than the other berghain guys i think. plus he was doing basically detroit techno tributes on delsin and his soloaction label

those soloaction side are astounding, though i think they're hard to find in mp3 format (compared to like tectonic or 3024 singles)

here's my big prediction for the next 12 months - sahko and late jeff mills gradually overtakes basic channel as go-to techno reference point

sahko is pretty obvious, when i bring up mills i am thinking of super-bleepy mills like metropolis soundtrack and contact special

compare stuff like "robot replica" to giorgio gilgi or samuli kemppi (i'm thinking tracks like "structure formation"

i agree. i think sahko has been a popular reference point throughout much of the 00s. ditto robert hood, but somehow jeff mills never received the same level of accolades for his minimal stuff

if minimal wasn't such a dirty word now, then people would be calling the prologue style stuff minimal techno

another interesting thing about the groups i listed above is that they all seem to be well into ambient music. i wonder if we'll see a renaissance in dance artists making purely ambient albums?

xp

yes completely. its all about those dotted note sequences on the prologue stuff. another mills track that really typifies this sound for me is "vertical" from the cycle 30 ep

anyway i like prologue and samuli kempii and all that stuff, but it can get a bit too dry sometimes. and for music called "head fuck" it's not all that trippy or psychedelic really, especially compared to like, hieroglyphic being or something

perc trax is the real deal

what surprises me is that dozzy was making that exact sound for several years before he got big, and it's like when he got big it was cos there was nothing else around.

sandwell district i just think, okay it sounds nice but who cares.

i just relistened to samuli kempii's latest ep on kosmiche and it's flat out amazing. not sure why i lump him in with prologue since he's only had one release there

moonship, have you heard the series eps by tadeo? they really back up your prediction re mills. almost like the millsian sleeparchive in their doggedly faithful reproductions. i think tadeo's been doing this for a while now. not particularly orginal, but really good stuff nonetheless

see also: ifach!!

pretty much with r1o here - love recent milton bradley and kemppi but not felt the sandwell or "head fuck" stuff nearly as much as i thought i would from reading about it. just seems like hey here's a somewhat coherent sound... will look into perc more

also i never hear any of this stuff in a club

we should talk about t++ now

i'm still interested to learn in what way you'd compare t++ to sandwell district?

i wish ifach was more of a touchstone than say sahko. especially the mark broom stuff. there's something very utopian about the music that came from that mid 90s uk techno scene

yeah ... but the thing is that mark broom descended pretty quick into primate / hardgroove / intec style monotony ... ok ok early sims / mid-period pure plastic is appealingly chunky but really, we don't want to go down that rabbit hole again.

if you look at t++ artist page on discogs you'll see that his compilation appearences are pretty much exclusively on mixes by dudes like marcel fengler (sharing space with kalon, peter van hoesen, dettman, etc), function, dettman, alex smoke, etc.

i think it's safe to say that dude is actually a bigger influence on the dubstep-swung arm of techno (looking at you dettman + klock) than he is on dubstep proper (even for dudes like kode9 or 2562 or martyn or whoever) and i wager the same is true for, say, shed

also because in my mind they represent two of the leading approaches to dub-in-techno right now: basic channel style "dub" atmospherics in the case of sandwell vs steppy "dub" beats in the case of t++

i know i'm ignoring many other approaches to dub in techno, and yeah i know there's some crossover, especially looking at stuff like regis' variance edit, which is nothing if not heavily swung.

actually though a big reason i started this thread is that like am0n i decided that t++ was straight bullshit and was hoping some people would stick up for the guy in public

does something like this peter van hoesen remix not totally straddle the line between t++ and sandwell district?

i mean, come on, nobody here gets how a track like aquatic relates to sandwell district?

okay how about shed vs t++ vs sandwell district?

there's something very utopian about the music that came from that mid 90s uk techno scene

― that habit kick man (r1o natsume)

wondering if there's going to be a ferox revival next

listening to the peverelist remix of shed last night and realizing that it sounds like those mid-90s plaid side projects that came out on ART and new electronica and rising high and stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BATwJEd1VNw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQvlxSHtQIY

amirite guys

Shed a million times over. Sandwell Distric bores me to no end (and the also endless sycophancy it seems to attract doesn't help matters at all).

why shed

I find Shed consistently interesting, whereas the Sandwell District co. appear to me as being content to produce barely nuanced shades of industrial tinged analogue techno and are content to keep (or perhaps to revel in) that. Shed's sound is a lot more variegated, and seemingly less caught up in trying to capture what dingy basement 8AM techno is supposed to sound like (what stood out to me when I saw him live was how colourful his music could be; synaesthetically it sounded like ellsworth kelly paintings put into repetitive patterns). Of course this may just be my predilection for the relative presence of more melody and catchy hooks over monochromatic functionalism, and maybe a bias toward more complex rhythms (which, recalling my disdain for everyone on ILM that goes "oh, 4/4..." would probably make a hypocrite) but Shed just sounds a lot better to me.

I'd like to elaborate, though I admittedly should probably listen to more of both parties first (i.e. stop putting off buying Shed's first album).

well put. i've decided over two months that shed is an incredible talent, for some reason he never clicked with me - outside of WAX and EQD - until i started digging into the soloaction back catalog. dude is operating at like anthony shakir levels of talent right now.

especially when you look at stuff like subsolo. when was the last time you saw somebody who could do credible detroit techno / d'n'b fusion since like, 4 hero? and do tricky breakbeat detroit techno. and glittering juan atkins type 4/4 space epics. and stuff like WAX and EQD.

shed is a fucking monster of a dj also

Don't really know much of his earlier stuff (I don't know if I've ever looked at discogs page before today, because I'm surprised to learn that he's released so much stuff pre-Shedding the Past), but stuff like this is plain evidence that Shed's been doing things at a really high level since at least 06.
The more jacking mix of Well done is a slept on highlight of the 00's, if you ask me.

sandwell district is incredibly well engineered and produced music, yet it does seem to lack content after a while. i think the austerity may be off putting to some, but personally i admire their single minded determination to create this kinda progressive, highly evolved streamlined techno. i admire how seriously they seem to take it. i dig their schtick, basically

shed is obviously an immense talent and is head and shoulders above the rest of the ostgut ton roster. there have been a couple of things this year that point towards a potential "intelligent techno" revival, that ross 154 record (might've been a reissue? not sure), that lost trax 2 thing on scsi av that sounds like prime art/likeminded records, even one of the tracks on those sandwell districts ep sounds like it could've been on pure plastic or something. records using these very specific fm synth sounds that you'd associate with kenny larkin or stasis or whoever. i'm no expert but i feel like that sound has always had steady underground interest through the 00s -- labels like delsin, new world aquarium stuff like that? anybody else spotted stuff in this vein from this year? i'm a sucker for that sound, i've been planning a utopian techno (think i stole that from you btw vahid in case you were wondering) mix of mostly 90s uk stuff for a while now

yeah i hear a real connection to that stuff when i listen to something like "HDRTM" or "dub shed" ... sounds like the sort of one-off brilliance you associate with random acts that put out one or two things and disappear forever ... i'm thinking the grand tradition of like urban tribe, 4th wave, walt j, etc.

not really sure how i'd classify those sounds, i always have trouble finding the descriptive language for it. what i want to do some day is a compare/contrast set with one track by shed and one track by someone else.

yeah it just really blows my mind now that i've finally rounded up all of his varied output because dude is doing like five different styles of techno music right now and in each style he's doing stuff that's up there with the best of the best. his versatility and quality control is ridiculous, especially considering he claims to do each of his tracks in one sitting or whatever.

a fatwa on andrew gaerig

My concession to Sandwell District is that this is a total doozy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96NXxWvnChs&feature=player_embedded#!

i think i had a weird kind of suspicion of shed's syncopated beats at first, but i got over that and now that's one of the most exciting things about him to me. i mean god knows how many times i've listened to warped mind... t++ also does this, thinking of wireless ep in particular right now.

sandwell is really all about function

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GcycFEzQaE&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpVvjjG2ZeE

I'm not sure modern day techno can be divided into three areas, actually for me the beauty of it is a producer like peter van hoesen who can fuse glitch, minimal, dub and even a loopy style in his music... but it is true that many of them like ambient sounds also

yeah function and silent servant are the really interesting sandwell guys for me, especially silent servant. even at its most minimal there's this strange emotional quality in his music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2uBQ4fW6AQ

man i wish you could edit posts. i should've said "emotional tension"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6JiHelOL4U

Intense dudes too it seems.

http://www.residentadvisor.net/news.aspx?id=19157

Fabric 69, mixed by Sandwell District

This looks like it could be very, very good.

gonna blast this fucker (while doing the ironing) this evening!!!!!!

Got the Function album in the post today, haven't had the chance to listen it yet though.

it's great! really nice review up on the quietus too

I think the Function one is probably even better than the Silent Servant one was

def, gah i thought this was a RA mix, was all excited

I was going to say...

I think there's some sort of Fabric 69 joke in here

I mean, a lot of people think 69 is funny but I know why because it's a sex number

I really like Function and Silent Servant have I missed any other good stuff under other monikers by the same guy?

two different guys: silent servant is juan mendez, function is dave sumner

so is the sd label done for good?

that's what they announced last year, think the last thing that came out was possibly a Rrose 12"

too bad — i've been digging through the sd and blackest ever black back catalogue lately

not sure if this has been linked on ilx before, but if you like this kind of stuff...

http://promomixes.com/

...you'll prob like some of the mixes there. function did the red zone one.

this was a good thread

thanks CB

Sandwell District Fabric 69 mix is awesome. Just as good as I'd hoped.

http://joshhall.net/post/81578386910/fascism-and-colonialism-in-the-work-of-cut-hands-and

well, this is eye-opening.

Sumner vs O'Connor vs Mendez vs Sutton FITE!!

Probably not worthy of a thread, but curious to hear how others rank these guys. I was always a Regis person but I've gone back and listened to some Function 12"s this week and found that his stuff, in particular, has aged really well. Obviously with Sandwell District it's difficult to determine who did what a lot of the time (Feed Forward LP, N/A and sampler 12"s), and that's also part of the appeal I guess, but I do tend to put these four guys' styles into certain loose categories. Just me?

Also, speaking of Sumner, never really understood why, at the time, so many people dismissed the Fabric 69 mix. Maybe it was too obvious / no exclusives? Listening right now and it sounds great!

interesting revive

well, interesting to me anyway, because i had a hearty discussion last night about whether it was okay for regis to be in a group called UGANDAN METHODS

here's my big prediction for the next 12 months - sahko and late jeff mills gradually overtakes basic channel as go-to techno reference point

― moonship journey to baja, Friday, August 13, 2010 11:19 AM (seven years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this turned out to be completely rong

The name doeesn't especially bother me, but I haven't really kept up with KO'C since the dissolution of SD. The Hospital Records vibe (and, tbh, some of the more recent BeB vibe) puts me off. One of the things I loved about Sandwell was the dark undercurrent beneath Basic Channel vibes, but now it just sounds like a lot of this music has removed everything but the dark undercurrent and, well, for that I have Nurse With Wound albums I never listen to

yeah i'm not a big industrial / noise / darkwave fan and i agree that this stuff seems to be skewing toward that lately

i would rank like so

surgeon >>>>>>>>>>>>> sumner >>>>> o'connor >> sutton >> mendez

Ah, cheating with Surgeon! But if we're expanding to include Downwards people, yes, that might be my ranking too. Seems like a lot of people really love Silent Servant, but I think those people probably also own every Demdike Stare release (no judgment implied)

I think Paul meant Hospital Productions and not Hospital Records, but yeah, that vibe has kind of become the de facto home for a lot of stuff that is just moody and atmospheric. All the propulsive stuff has, in my opinion, gone the way of the more industrial-meets-berlin aesthetic with artists like Ancient Methods?

appreciate the prior attempts of r1o natsume to push Perc Trax -- I got into a bunch of that stuff in a big way shortly after and it's definitely more of an established space in 2018

still really enjoying a lot of Rrose stuff, but it's definitely now less in the post-Sandwell space and more like the stuff on stroboscopic artefacts, including collaborations w/Lucy

Seems like a lot of people really love Silent Servant, but I think those people probably also own every Demdike Stare release (no judgment implied)

lol, guilty as charged

I like a lot of the stuff on BEB but some of it is really straying into the "stuff that would be on Demdike Stare's label but less interesting" territory

I'm not sure how to describe the Stroboscopic Artefacts stuff -- it's definitely kind of samey, but it's kind of a more dancefloor-oriented raster-noton at times?

I really dug this album by Xhin on Stroboscopic Artefacts some years back https://stroboscopicartefacts.bandcamp.com/album/sword

didn't get the impression it made much of a splash but I'm p much a doing it rong techno album home listener by circumstance so largely vague in this dept

I am pretty sure kangding ray jsut keeps making the same music but I like 99% of it

Perc Trax stuff I've heard so far is great, and currently listening to Kangding Ray's Hyper Opal Mantis and it is indeed excellent. Need to hear more! Are those "Tracks of 20xx" mixes pretty representative of the label?

And xp, yep, meant Hospital Productions!

personally, i'm loving a lot of industrial/EBM tinged stuff from last year

https://www.discogs.com/Schwefelgelb-Dahinter-Das-Gesicht/master/1231021 (Schwefelgelb ‎– Dahinter Das Gesicht)
https://www.discogs.com/Ancient-Methods-The-First-Siren/master/1131288 (Ancient Methods ‎– The First Siren)

and this

this Contort Yourself label is really cool, lots of bangin industrial techno

https://www.discogs.com/label/770902-Contort-Yourself

― brimstead, Wednesday, November 8, 2017 6:43 PM (three months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i guess by "a lot", i mean "three"

this is the contort yourself EP that really rocked me: https://www.discogs.com/Various-From-Heavy-Metal-Bashing-To-Leisure-Pursuits-EP-/release/10554579

I remember going to Mutek in 2010 and it seemed kind of cool that Orphx was there as a Canadian industrial act (I think I missed them because I was seeing Actress or Shed?) but after a number of years it's gone full circle

looks like sandwell district is back, if only for a limited number of festival dates

There's also this:

https://boomkat.com/products/feed-forward-2023-boxed-set

yup. the more limited version of that reissue sold out in hours, so I’m wondering how long this second batch will actually take to ship because it’s been up for probably a week at this point

not that I’m complaining because I’ve wanted a copy

lacking a standalone thread,
this is terrible news: https://ra.co/news/80120

Los Angeles-based DJ and producer John Juan Mendez, AKA Silent Servant, has died.

Mendez's management, Triangle Agency, confirmed the news in an email sent to Resident Advisor earlier today, January 19th. The cause of death wasn't disclosed, but Mendez's partner, Simone Ling, and Luis Vasquez, AKA darkwave musician The Soft Moon, are believed to have died in the same incident.

just horrible and condolences to anyone that knew them

Oh my god. That's terrible.

Reading the twitter tributes to him and seriously he sounds like one of the best guys

I once asked Silent Servant what a record was as he was playing a reliably beautiful set. The next time I saw Juan he had bought me my own copy of the vinyl. An amazing artist and incredibly gentle guy. RIP to a true one

— Daniel Avery (@danielmarkavery) January 19, 2024

He always believed in me. He was a super supportive human and introduced me to Broken English Club. This is a heavy one. RIP to the Silent Servant pic.twitter.com/C360d6uzvF

— Panther Modern (@panthermodern__) January 19, 2024

One of the kindest people in electronic music has passed. Deeply shocked and saddened by Juan Mendez' passing from this life. Thank you Silent Servant.

— Peter Van Hoesen (@PeterVanHoesen) January 19, 2024

I sat down with Silent Servant (Juan Mendez) in 2017 for an in depth interview for https://t.co/6RgIT0RTOV that I'll never forget. It was a very bad time in my life. His words inspired me to keep going. I won't forget you Juan. #silentservant https://t.co/dHNyDmhcQ0 pic.twitter.com/0dd9eYAAki

— Ana Roman (@anodromedan) January 19, 2024

literally hundreds of posts like that. so fucking sad on just a basic human level, let alone the amazing music

Just reading twitter, and thinking the same. fuck.