how harshly do you judge people when it comes to their tastes/opinions about music

are you one of those nice people who says: oh, well, different strokes for different folks, i suppose! or do you write people off completely if they say something that you disagree with/think is stupid. i'm used to people saying that they hate rap and metal and i mostly let it go. although i do realize that i probably wouldn't be GREAT friends with anyone who just out and out hated a ton of stuff that i love. especially if they were big jerks about it. i met a friend of a friend last summer and i hate to admit it, but i did kinda dismiss him after he said that he NEVER listened to new music or checked any of it out except for...Beck. i knew right then that we lived on different planets. i'm still nice to him and everything. but to dismiss all modern music except for...Beck? i couldn't really take him seriously after that! and he's a musician too! anyway, just wondering. most of the time i just ask people what they like and then i talk about that with them and don't even bring up my own deviant interests. i know how to get along.

depends how jerky they are about it. someone who has terrible taste but isn't all self-righteous about it, these people don't bother me a bit. I don't trust their taste, but so what...? When it comes to musicians it's a little different - the drummer we played with who professed to "hate the Beatles" (but loved U2's rhythm section?!), I basically wrote him off after that.

IRL i am pretty chill and willing to talk to people about music based on whatever little common ground we might have, and not argue about all the things we disagree about unless they force the issue or it seems like it could be a fun conversation. i mean, it's a given that most people don't think about music as much as me or a lot of people here, and it'd be silly for me to lecture others on it just like i don't like being lectured about topics/artforms i don't give much thought.

w/ people here or friends that I talk to about music, though, obviously there's more of a baseline of shared interest and i'm more willing to pick fights and take stands on shit.

Like politics, my musical tastes so rarely coincide with the people I see every day that I take my isolation for granted.

So very OTM

yeah that too. I agree with some dude tho - with IRL people it's just easier/more fun/more interesting to find some common ground and talk about that. unless someone's being real douche-y about how rap "isn't music" or whatever, then I might be inclined to argue the point.

i can get pretty irritated by my friend's tastes but mine are so much more obnoxious that i have no choice but to let it slide

i've given up on selling a lot of rap i like to my friends. pretty much none of them are willing to accept any non-outkast southern us rap because it's "not about anything meaningful" or something

Realized in my last relationship that I don't really care if my tastes overlap with someone's or not, that what matters is more if they can talk about their tastes intelligently. (My ex slagging bands for not being "innovative" as if that was the sole criteria of musical merit led to a lot of dead end conversations there.)

I'm pretty much in the same boat as Alfred.

But going back to Shakey's post about hating the Beatles: drummers who think "Ringo sucks" lose a lot of respect instantly from me. Sadly this is about 99% of all drummers I've ever played music with in a band situation, so these days I just stay home.

most of the time i'd rather talk about something else. i think people including myself have a lot of emotions and self-regard mixed in with their taste, so when the topic comes up it can be a little hard to navigate without fronting somehow. if it just comes up in a conversation naturally and it's contextualized that way than it's more fun imo. rather than "ok, the next topic is bands we like or shows we've been to."

But going back to Shakey's post about hating the Beatles: drummers who think "Ringo sucks" lose a lot of respect instantly from me.

what was weird was it wasn't just Ringo, he really hated the whole concept of the Beatles, their place in music culture, etc. My reaction was just, y'know, dude this is not a battle you are going to win, hating everything having to do with the Beatles means you gotta rule out huge swathes of pop music as acceptable.

In high school I used to tell people they were stupid if they liked music I hated.

Now, I only think it.

Maturity is awesome!

lol

i don't hate the beatles, but as a musician it can occasionally be awkward to not be very familiar with the beatles catalog (or rather, i'm only tangentially familiar with it...never had a period where i sat down and listened to the records, but so many of the songs are unavoidable)

I try to be nice really, used to be a total jerk in my teens but now I feel that hating other people's tastes is juvenile and silly. I do catch myself thinking "oh god" at some people's music tastes but I don't really express that. I don't talk much about my own taste, I always feel like a twat/snob if I have to try and explain what I like. Or that people will hear one or two bands and put my taste in a box as a result!

I try to be nice really, used to be a total jerk in my teens but now I feel that hating other people's tastes is juvenile and silly. I do catch myself thinking "oh god" at some people's music tastes but I don't really express that.

I agree with this. Plus, I have the goofiest taste in music so it would be a bit hypocritical for me to judge.

i think it's lame to judge someone on what they like or dislike alone, but their reasoning reflects different elements of themselves as a whole, and if those elements are hard for you to take then yr gonna think about it and maybe judge but hopefully just make distinctions.

i never judge IRL based on what people like - if they're not already a friend of mine/haven't gained my liking via some other route and express dislike for my fav music in dickish terms (r&b and rap...you can guess what gets said), sure, i'll judge them on that.

i'll poke (hopefully) gentle fun at some of my friends' musical taste. like say, the couple who bought barenaked ladies tickets recently. how can you ignore that? but a pretty big majority of the people I'm friends with in my current town do not have great musical taste. whattayagonnado?

I like talking to people who are way into areas of music that I'm not - I figure I'll learn something and maybe pick up a tip or two. And, in general, I find that I get along better with people who are actively into music than those who are basically a passive audience. But unless people actively engage me about the music I like, I tend to listen more than spout off.

i actually prefer it when someone i know disagrees with me on the relative merits of this or that artist/style/genre/whatever. i've found that such differences of opinion can lead to stimulating conversation/self-examination of one's personal "taste" (or what have you) on occasion. it can also be dull as hell, of course. you take your chances.

It seems to be frowned upon to tease people about their tastes lately. I can't even poke fun at relatives for loving American Idol? Please. At least I do so while fully admitting to watching Glee with my woman (though I'd rather chew my arm off than see the live tour). Now people who simply don't like music, or stopped listening to anything new, they are enemies for life.

not very harshly, in answer to the thread question

yeah, i like that one of my friends is a pretty big metheny disciple -- it's fun to see where your tastes intersect, what you agree with/disagree with. people who are passionate about the music they like are good, regardless of whether they share my taste.

IRL I'm kind of excited to meet anyone who actually listens to music, regardless of taste.

yeah, exactly

btw i just assume IRL people don't want to talk in detail about music (with the exception of musician nerd friends). there is a certain kind of awkwardness that occurs when i want to spare someone from music nerd talk, but they ask me about it b/c they know i play in bands or whatever.

What I like is when people who've only seen me write/talk about listening to certain types of music assume that's all I listen to, and then come at me about something I've written or said with "How can you criticize Gucci Mane, you don't even listen to hip-hop!" or some similar bullshit. That's some kinda fun.

yeah, just over the weekend, i had kind of an awkward conversation with someone who brought up fleet foxes as his new fave band, but i think he did it because he knew I played in bands. i don't hate the fleet foxes i've heard, but i don't really like it either. but i just kind of nodded and said oh yeah they're cool. xpost

see, I would tell that person "only bedwetting fakers like Fleet Foxes; go put on your Palestinian scarf and drink some bubble tea" if I was 19

now that I'm 37, I just say "I don't like them" while holding that response back as firmly as I possibly can unless I'm with friends who enjoy my unnecessary ranting about trivial shit

i don't judge people for what music they like/dislike, but i do judge people for saying dumb uninformed shit. that goes for everything, not just music.

earnestly judging one's actual friends based on music taste/opinions is just lousy. imo. proverbial ball-busting is just fine, of course.

hahaha see this is not even a question for me because if i judged peeps harshly for the music they listen to i would be unemployed so

oh come on, I saw you in action in high school

you have a little hate demon in your heart too, I know it (in fact, I've seen it blog for you)

every morning i get up, stand and stare at myself in the mirror and repeat "today someone is going to talk to you for an hour about hawthorne heights so maybe just start practicing that smile now."

I have an off-beat friend who only likes Dave Matthews Band and refuses to listen to music in his car. It's weird but he's just more of a sports guy - I won't judge him on music or intentionally avoid making friendships with people who don't care about music

The most I judge people on music is when I look at an online dating profile and see a huge list of bands, none of which I like very much, I'll go look at a different profile.

I imagine it would be harder for me to become good friends with a huge metal or rap fan because in the past it just so happened that those people had personalities that seemed like polar opposites of my personality. I've never been good friends with a huge metal or rap fan.

I judge people by how many Captain Beefheart records they have. Less than 10, I don't want to know them. Under 2, I'll spit in their face.

I've never been good friends with a huge metal or rap fan.

aw I have known some super-sweetheart metal fans in my day, yr missing out

I'm not purposely avoiding them. I've just never met a metal dude and became good friends

Another question: "How warmly do you regard people for loving a maligned album in an artist's oeuvre?"

The Dylan fan who loves Empire Burlesque, the Cohen fan who defends Death of a Ladies Man – I'm more likely to go HI ALFRED SOTO WAT UP

If I ever meet a Cure fan who's all "Wild Mood Swings was totally their creative peak" I will likely get arrested for assault

^^^word

xp

haw!

I used to be pretty bad as a teenager, although I wasn't intending to be as bad as I probably was, because I was really only judging their music taste, not them as a person, but some of my friends did call me out on it - most of my IRL friends are just not that into music although I have crossover tastes with most of them. I gradually just grew out of being scornful of other people's music I guess.

I still love it when I occasionally meet someone who's really into something I like - recently when I was in the states I met one of my wife's old friends for the first time and we discovered we were both really into old school punk and hardcore - he's a few years older than me so had been to all these shows at Fenders Ballroom seeing bands like Dead Kennedys and Conflict that I'd only seen on Youtube.

I "judge" ILM posters a lot harsher and more consistently than IRL friends and folks, who pretty much have a free pass.

I judge people by how many Captain Beefheart records they have. Less than 10, I don't want to know them. Under 2, I'll spit in their face.

If you own fewer than 20 Sun Ra albums I'll pin you down and repeatedly punch you in the face for hours.

I don't actually own any, I just feel violent.

if they're not an active fan of Scouting For Girls then tbh live and let live

doubtless I have better conversations with open-minded people, but a taste is a taste and musical common ground is almost always present

The most I judge people on music is when I look at an online dating profile and see a huge list of bands, none of which I like very much, I'll go look at a different profile.

Not that I don't agree with the principle, but if I had followed that line I wouldn't be married to the awesome Mrs. McBB. I had to give up the fantasy of marrying a fellow music fan pretty quickly after I hit 30.

hahaha see this is not even a question for me because if i judged peeps harshly for the music they listen to i would be unemployed so

yeah, i'd be flat broke if i did this!

man i should work on my slap n' pop chops and come down and serenade jjusten with some tasty licks for a couple hours

"hey m@tt, how are you?"

"good, good to see you jj!"

*theme from night court*

hahahahahahahaha

I would pay lots of money to say that

You mean the fop on the right?

xpost

who's the greasy fop coddling the moppet?

misread this as "greasy cop fondling the moppet"

Highly suspect, Shakey. You're assuming that anyone outside this board glances at rockcrit, no matter what its subject.

when have "target demographics" of any genre read ANY criticism?

I'm not saying people are right to assume the worst about adult male Taylor Swift fans, just... come on, don't act surprised.

You're assuming that anyone outside this board glances at rockcrit, no matter what its subject.

Not sure what you're getting at here...? This seems entirely beside the point.

when have "target demographics" of any genre read ANY criticism?

Rolling Stone, Pitchfork, NME/Melody Maker...

You're assuming that criticism has any kind of toehold in the world. It doesn't! What I read will be read by a few hundred people at a time at most.

I'm sure ppl walk by a newsstand and accidentally see the cover of Rolling Stone or something

Guitar World, GuitarONE, Guitar for the Practicing Musician...

Rolling Stone, Pitchfork, NME/Melody Maker...

All of which review teen pop.

lol @ baby clothes hard-manning on this thread. babies go through like three outfits a day, you dress them in what people give you. who gives a shit

sounds like somebody's baby once wore an SY onesie

are you saying that your engagement with Taylor Swift is somehow outside/independent of yr interest in critical discourse? That you just like it cuz it's TOTALLY AWESOME or something unexamined like that? That would be very unlike you

Pitchfork has not reviewed Swifty.

sounds like somebody's baby once wore an SY onesie

I think the only band outfit we had her in was a Zep IV onesie someone gave us. I was okay with that

With the bent-over old man on it? Or like, ZOSO?

Rolling Stone, Pitchfork, NME/Melody Maker...

All of which review teen pop.

I feel like we're arguing at cross-purposes here - I cited those because rock audiences read RS, indie geeks read Pitchfork, anglophiles read NME/Melody Maker (consider some of these in the past-tense of course). Female teenage Taylor Swift fans, however, don't really read think-pieces on her.

[With the bent-over old man on it?

yep old man and lantern

Not what I'm saying at all. If I'm reading you correctly, you assume that the consumption of teen pop isn't taken seriously because it's a genre marketed to teenage girls. But who are the "people" you're talking about here -- the people who won't read teen pop crit? They're not going to read reviews of country, metal, R&B, hip-hop, or any other genre not "marketed" to/at them.

"This is music that is made for and marketed to a very specific demographic."

I don't buy the "marketed to a very specific demographic" for Top 40 music (like Swift's). I hear those songs in the airport and in the supermarket. Unless you mean "marketed to people who fly and/or shop for food"? But you mean marketed to teens, I guess.

I feel like we're arguing at cross-purposes here - I cited those because rock audiences read RS, indie geeks read Pitchfork, anglophiles read NME/Melody Maker (consider some of these in the past-tense of course). Female teenage Taylor Swift fans, however, don't really read think-pieces on her.

You're partly right, but writers don't necessarily have fans in mind when they're composing something persuasive.

like rock music, indie, techno = whatever, these are socially acceptable things for an adult male to have an interest in; they are made by/for/about adult males for the most part. Teenage girl pop, not so much.

x-posts

dude my whole reason to ever have a kid would be to dress him up in extreme metal onesies

Seen on an AC/DC onesie: "We Who Are About to Walk Salute You"

but socially acceptable by whom?

Shakey that is some odious sexist bullshit regarding the "boundaries" of what it's ok for people to take interest in.

like rock music, indie, techno = whatever, these are socially acceptable things for an adult male to have an interest in;

If I were being churlish, I'd say that a fortysomething man caring about the fortunes of Interpol is pretty socially unacceptable.

to be fair to shakey, he's referring to "perceptions," but the discussion of perceptions invariably turns into an argument about power: who's creating those perceptions and who's believing them, etc.

yep old man and lantern

Oh, that's cool! I meant the old man with the sticks.

I don't buy the "marketed to a very specific demographic" for Top 40 music (like Swift's)

Top 40 a encompasses a lot of things that bear little/no resemblance to Taylor Swift tho. Swift was cited on this thread as something adult males got shit for being interested in, and I'm using her as an example of a smaller subset of Top 40, i.e. teen girl pop. You may hear her in the supermarket/airport or whatever but gimme a break you know who's actually bankrolling her career and it isn't middle-aged dads.

x-posts

but socially acceptable by whom?

the people who raise their eyebrows when they hear you like Taylor Swift! (Please note I am not one of these people, "I'm not like everybody else" haha)

I don't see that it matters who's bankrolling what; but I don't have indie ethics when it comes to music.

...the discussion of perceptions invariably turns into an argument about power: who's creating those perceptions and who's believing them, etc.

this is a totally legit point. however, because this gets into an area that is super-touchy - adult male sexual interest in underage girls - is it really any mystery why this would inflame hyper-protective suspicions? One thing every society is uptight about is protecting children, it's not really something that you can wade into and not expect a lot of fireworks.

It's all good, Shakes.

I don't see that it matters who's bankrolling what; but I don't have indie ethics when it comes to music.

maybe I need to repeat myself here: f you do not fall into that demographic many people are going to assume your interest in that demographic's music is because YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THAT DEMOGRAPHIC, and as an adult male, being interested in underage teenage girls = creepy pedo.

Please note I am NOT saying this perception is de facto legitimate, just saying that this reaction is gonna be VERY common. Almost unconcsiously so, for a lot of people.

But

Taylor Swift isn't underage!

just to clarify I was only using Taylor Swift as an example - I get equal amounts of shit from people for taking, say, the black eyed peas or diddy seriously

i can't stand it when a critic refers to the artist in question by his/her first name.

I'd say that a fortysomething man caring about the fortunes of Interpol is pretty socially unacceptable.

I lol'd

Although I take umbrage at the assumption that I am over 40! (note: I am in my 30s)

I get equal amounts of shit from people for taking, say, the black eyed peas or diddy seriously

okay that's a little more WTF.

baby ga ga

xp: It's the same radio station as T. Swift though!

Some young (ie about age 11 or 12) singers are marketed at the granny/grandad market though. Like early Charlotte Church, Faryl, and Hayley Westenra

xp: It's the same radio station as T. Swift though!

Yeah, Taylor Swift has transcended both country and teenpop and is pretty much just mainstream pop music at this point.

I think what turns heads is when adult males rhapsodize about Aly & AJ or Demi Lovato or whoever -- acts that have practically no currency outside the Radio Disney demographic.

I'll grant that Swift (like several others before her - Britney springs to mind, as does Miley Cyrus) is currently successfully migrating from kiddie-pop to just straight-up mainstream-pop-for-everybody. She was kinda straddling the line prior to winning the Grammy (lolsome as Grammys are), which I think was definitely a stamp of legitimacy from the industry.

baby clothes hard-manning

this phrase is loooool

all i know is i wanna pound her till her eyes fall out of their sockets

― Are Slimes the Jews of monsterdom? (cankles), Sunday, March 7, 2010 2:12 PM (3 months ago)

^ and people wonder why the "pedo" thing applies? ;-)

ugh