Make K8's Head Explode: Madonna vs. Aphex Twin

aphex twin, obv

No, not obviously at all.

Madonna

madonna!

Madonna, definitely.

this is pitting two different phases of my life against each other.

This is pitting two halves phases of my brain against each other.

D'OH!

This is pitting two different halves of my brain against each other.

the quality of RDJ's work didn't depend on whom he was working with

Madonna.

also he was far more innovative, challenging and interesting a musician - this is a no-brainer for me

plz slay my arguments, ILX

RDJ

I honestly can't decide. I mean, I can't even let my libido make this choice because although obv I lust after Mr. D.James, seriously, Madonna is one of those people that I would switch teams for.

CANNOT MAKE CHOICE. Beyond Daddy or Chips.

plz slay my arguments, ILX

I just roll me eyes at this point tbh.

Er, they are your reasons for preferring one artist to another, they are not the only reasons. Even if I accepted them as factually accurate which I don't. That's my shot at refutation.

I think Aphex probably has more good tracks overall but Madonna's highs are unfuckable with. Voting Madonna.

Twin

the quality of RDJ's work didn't depend on whom he was working with

neither does madonna's. the style changes according to who she works with, but not the quality - she's produced some of her best work with people not noted for their work with others, and some of her worst with her most respected collaborators

But NV, they might be wrong! I might have erred in my expression! And that's where you come in. AHA, and there's The Lex with a solid opener.

I'll concede that Madonna has a number of absolutely banging pop songs that could unite a room in a manner RDJ can only dream of

Not a reason but maybe a reason I will use to justify voting with my heart: RDJ has perhaps gotten better as he's retreated from the limelight, and Madge just doesn't stir my interest any more.

i think we'd all agree that they probably should have collaborated with each other at some point, right? (but not now.)

They would have brought out the worst in one another I fear.

this is pitting two different phases of my life against each other

This. I have a strong sense as to just how they shaped respective decades for my own listening -- one for the eighties, one for the nineties. For a project I just finished working on I picked ten songs as signposts to my listening history -- one was "Rhubarb" from Selected Ambient Works Volume II and the other was, almost, one of any number of Madonna tracks between 1985 to 1989 or so (ended up picking a Prince song from the same period). There is also the sense of how one is more public listening and the other more private, though as Lex and I agreed on a recent thread, the idea of the radio as public medium doesn't apply for me, it did always feel personal and so the two are more equal on that front for me, but much different in the larger realm of fame and attention. I don't think I could select between the two.

banging pop songs that could unite a room in a manner RDJ can only dream of

this is the root of my indecision, though I'll probably end up voting for RDJ. I just have a great memory of one day in college waiting outside the area of the cafeteria where everyone had to return their trays after eating. The kitchen staff had the radio on and "Like a Prayer" was playing. Literally every single person who exited the tray area was singing the words on the way out and most everyone at that school was an arch-hipster or an arch-hippie. It was kind of a profound moment.

Time Magazine Classic Pop Crit Canon vs. XLR8R Classic Bloop Crit Canon.

I think Madonna has more staying power. Every time I write Madonna off as "that's it, no more good stuff from her" then she puts out another album that would be career defining for anyone else.

I don't think Richard will release another grade A+++ album. He'll sit around farting out "interesting" music but I think his days of certified bangers are over. (yes, I hope he reads this and proves me wrong but I've give up hope.)

I can't even say "my head says Twin but my heart says Madonna" because both my head and heart have different reasons for loving both.

madonna

even just 90's madonna, tbh

[i]There is also the sense of how one is more public listening and the other more private,/i>

also OTM

good choices, Kate!

Can't deny the cultural event of Madonna.

Madonna

yeah, screw it, voted Madonna. While I have deep emotional connections to certain Aphex songs (like that one about the milkman's wife), Madonna videos were a key part of my adolescence.

i think we'd all agree that they probably should have collaborated with each other at some point, right? (but not now.)

It's one of my fan fiction fantasies that Chris Cunningham had brought them together when Madonna was in her Ray of Light exhuberance and RDJ was on his post-Windowlicker pre-Drukqs peak.

And it SO NEARLY HAPPENED but although the legend says it was her that nixed it, reading Mr Twin interviews this morning brought up the fact that it was actually him that nixed it, because he thought it would overshadow everything else he did for the rest of his life. (I think he was actually influenced by Cunningham's experiences - except for the fact, that 10 years later, everyone still asks Cunningham about workikng with APHEX, not Madonna.)

Which I don't think is the case. I think he would have survived it with his head rearranged but his cred entact. But it will never happen now. Which is a shame.

But perhaps my imagining is better than the dull truth of what it would have been, given Mr. Twin's poor record of collaborating with people bigger than himself. His ego is too big to allow it.

Looking inside my heart and asking myself who I would miss the most if I could never hear them again, I voted Aphex.

squinting from a slightly different angle - take a madonna hater and an aphex hater; i think aphex's strongest tracks would probably reinforce what the aphex hater already dislikes about him, whereas madonna has a number of songs that would probably make the madonna hater forget what they dislike about her.

That collaboration would have been dreadful, Madonna would have been all "I am working with the Aphex Twin these are my SERIOUS ART SONGS" and Aphex would have mangled her to within an inch of being unrecognisable just for a laugh.

i think aphex's strongest tracks would probably reinforce what the aphex hater already dislikes about him

Disputed, he's got a pretty broad range.

I don't think it's possible to make SERIOUS ART SONGS when you're making animal noises, yeah?

Wait, no, scratch that, I have an ex boyfriend who could dispute that in an instant. :-(

And also - that broad range is in both of their favours. Both of them have such hugely diverse bodies of work, and yet at the same time, you cannot mistake them for anyone else, they have such a personal stamp.

With Madonna, it's that her voice - though copied by so many - is still so instantly dinstinguishable. With RDJ it's less definable, but it's still his own personal stamp.

I have a sense of a shift-of-moment as well around 1992 involving the two of them, in terms of what I wanted and was looking for in music. It tied in with something beyond my control as well -- when I moved to UCI and lived on campus the first few years in grad housing, the buildings were for whatever reason not cable ready, and for the next few years a lot of what was then formalized as mainstream pop culture like MTV was something I only caught up with in bursts and starts here and there. So Madonna's cultural omnipresence became much less so for me. Meanwhile, my attention towards subcultural production grew as a counterbalance, via my work at KUCI and more besides, furthered by the fact that I had grown pretty impatient with pop's limitations as I was sensing them. The evident irony is of course that Aphex is so hook-friendly, but they were hooks that felt newer to me and offered more as a result. This oversimplifies my listening stances and what I was hearing, it was hardly JUST them of course. But I'm not surprised at all that Erotica became this fairly distant thing for me whereas for others it was as crucial as much she had done before.

this is a very difficult choice

i think aphex's strongest tracks would probably reinforce what the aphex hater already dislikes about him

Disputed, he's got a pretty broad range.

yeah, compare Windowlicker to something like Xtal

Mashed potatoes.

excuse my constantly bad formatting argh

squinting from a slightly different angle - take a madonna hater and an aphex hater; i think aphex's strongest tracks would probably reinforce what the aphex hater already dislikes about him, whereas madonna has a number of songs that would probably make the madonna hater forget what they dislike about her.

There is almost ALWAYS a song that I can play an Aphex Hater that will change their mind about "what Aphex Sounds Like" - be that Polynomial-C or Kesson Dalef or Goon Gumpas.

There are definitely electronic acts where you hear a track and think "that sounds Aphex-y", which is as good an indicator of being a phenomenon as any. Madonna makes a virtue of the Great Pop Idea that is constant reinvention, but I've no doubt she's been making her Serious Art statements since at least Like a Prayer. I think I'd've liked her to Björk out a bit at some point in the last 10 years, but then it might've been fun if RDJ had tried to land a few secret bangers in the upper end of the charts.

but then it might've been fun if RDJ had tried to land a few secret bangers in the upper end of the charts.

He claims he did, under psuedonyms, but that smacks of more lying irritating kid from Cornwall than secret truth.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "Bjork out" mind you?

Love both, but Madonna's been slipping since 2000, Aphex's stuff just keeps getting better (e.g. The Tuss album/ep).

Aphex.

If Confessions On A Dance Floor is slipping, well, my god, I've fallen and I can't get up. Stuff and nonsense!

Aphex hasn't put out an A+++ album since Drukqs. And as much of a stan as I am, I sincerely doubt he will again.

madonna

Has Aphex actually put out an album since Drukqs? Apart from that "Remix/Money" thing..

I mean I love Aphex, but c'mon...

there's no greater battle than that between two Leos (literally their birthdays are two days apart, though RDJ is 13 years younger than MLC...)

afx

Madonna - me at 13 yo trying to come to terms with the Like a Prayer video / TV ads. Shit hot. She did mad,, crazy things to my adolescent mind. About the same time I put my hornyness to one side a little to study the video of Material Girl in class. Shit hot. (that dress! wow) At university I constantly listened to The Immaculate Collection as well as lots of dodgy indie rock that I've since forgotten about. I'd always loved the 80's singles, I'd kind of kept up with what she did but got bored 98 - 03 - it was only really Hung Up that made me understand she still fucking ruled.

Aphex Twin - yeah, the Selected Ambient Works 85-92 meant a lot to me, especially after a couple of crazy early teen nights/weekends out. Come to Daddy is a GREAT vid. Most of the Ricahrd D. James album is very close to my heart. The Analord & Truss stuff is really cool.

But. Yeah it's Madonna. I didn't grow up wanting to fuck AFX. And he didn;t ever do anything as wonderful as Material Girl, or Borderline.

I would sleep with Madonna, but only if she let me play Selected Ambient Works 85-92 during.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

voted madonna bc i am a man who has sex w/ other men

voted madonna bc i am a man who has sex w/ other men

riiight

hahahaha

I still haven't voted, but to follow the above pattern, I would have to vote for Aphex because, well, I am a straight woman who would like to have sex with girlsong Aphex and, you know, not be a lesbian for it. ;-)

I think. Ha.

I am still working on my 90s rave version of "Cherish" FWIW.

Actually, seriously, I'm not gonna vote. Because I can't choose.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

lol

Nice results.

i have plenty sex w/ men and voted aphex cos madonna, well, i truly loathe the woman.

Why?

Gay, voted Aphex.

Yes, convinced that everyone who voted aphex actually wants to sleep with RDJ.

Yeah nice results actually.

I like to fall asleep listening to him sometimes.

(me too, TBH)

his gentle snoring, I meant.

((me too, TBH))

Sorry, now you have put the idea of the soft susurration of Richard as he sleeps into my head and it will not leave.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4021/4280427584_ce465c16f0_m.jpg

i don't want to sleep with either of these ppl (maybe madonna if i had a time machine handy) but i voted madonna

Well, yeah, puppy fat and eyebrows era Madonna I would... Aside from all that though, I voted for her as I would rather listen to her songs rather than whatever it is Aphex Twin does.

a while back i tried to figure out the exact year madonna ceased to be hot and the answer i came up with was 1995

"take a bow" vid versus "human nature" vid really hammered it home

Wow, there's kind of a line between cute, fun, flirty discussion of the attractiveness of pop stars, and just icky gross objectifying talk, and I think the last few posts have crossed over it. Thanks for making my thread really uncomfortable now.

I dunno. Maybe that's harsh because Madonna has made aggressive use of sex appeal as part of her art for so long. But, if you really ever want reinforcement of how the objectification playing field is still, really very not even, it's the way that female vs male pop stars are treated as they age.

I mean, maybe it would be better to put Madonna up against some other aging Welsh sex bomb like, oh Tom Jones to see how perceived sexiness in the pop star works as a function of age.

But those kinds of comments along the lines of "she was smashable until age XX and then not" really do just squick me out on two levels.

but you always go on about how smashable guys are!

i voted aphex btw, and funnily enough, i dont fancy him.

and yes, madonna has made a big thing of her sex appeal, probably more than anyone else.

yr being ridiculous, i think, as well as putting words in peoples mouths.

xpost @ kate

im gonna regret posting here now.

Well, 1) I rarely use the term "smashable" except in response because, as I've talked about before, I really dislike it.

2) the age drop off when used talking about women's attractiveness is FAR more extreme (and the punnishments more severe) when talking about women than men.

The playing field is simply NOT level for all the reasons and more we talked about on the other thread, and it continues to squick me out and I refuse to apologise for saying so.

ok fair enough, ive never seen you use "smashable", sorry.

the exact year madonna ceased to be hot and the answer i came up with was 1995

Nah, she looked great again around her 'Earth Mother' Ray of Light period, circa '98.

there's kind of a line between cute, fun, flirty discussion of the attractiveness of pop stars, and just icky gross objectifying talk,

i just honestly don't see it. it's no worse than what you say about lindstrom or aphex or the guy from that band that pete docherty was in and you say those things pretty often.

people can fancy cute early-years madonna while finding stick-insect english accent madonna horrifying, it's not really to do with aging, it seems more like those two madonnas seeming like completely different people and you can fancy one and find the other creepy.

Do you really want to have the clusterfuck about how the objectification playing field is really NOT level, or do you just want to go and read that thread, so we don't have to go through this all again?

Because I really do not want to.

This has been a nice thread up until now, and I just have this horrid feeling it's gonna go all icky and gross now so I'm just gonna remove my bookmark now. Thanks.

by all means don't go through it. it's not level, i'm aware of that, there's just nothing offensive in the posts you are referring to.

this is pitting two different phases of my life against each other.

For me this is not strictly true. At the peak of my, let's say, immersion in musical subcultures I never felt as if I was turning my back against pop, which is what Madonna incarnates. Up through 1999 or 2000 I could dive into the catalogues of, say, Aphex Twin and John Zorn with the reassurance that Madonna would be "there," releasing a banger of a single. Even when releasing dull albums she was such a part of the fabric that I had the choice of taking her for granted. American Life and its attendant singles marked the first time I thought that the old biddie had lost it, but there was again with "Hung Up" and "Sorry" and all was right with the world.

However, I'm older now, and resigned without regret to the suspicion that I may have lost interest in her new product.

*there she was again

I loved madonna in the 80s when I was at school, and she never stopped making great singles in the 90s really.

But I still get more enjoyment out of listening to aphex twin

My thought last summer when I heard MJ had died: Madonna might be the only artist whose sudden death might make me moist-eyed.

Would have voted AFX had I seen this in time, not because I'm gay or straight or sexless or a Madonna h8r but because Flim is one of my most favourite things ever and RDJ made it.

This thread has inspired me to hunt down the rest of those Artificial Intelligence releases Warp did... particularly B12's Electro-soma.

Yep. Been listening to lots of SAW II tonight.