Springsteen: The Early Years

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Or: Search the 70s.

― the pinefox, Saturday, 10 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess I think DARKNESS is the best 70s LP - but what about before that?

I don't even know the order they come in: is GREETINGS later than WILD / INNOCENT? And did GREETINGS really come out the *same year* as BORN TO RUN??

Anyway, like I say - your views on this material. What it was all about; what has stood up.

― the pinefox, Saturday, 10 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

it goes: greetings, wild & innocent, born to run. i only have wild&innocent and born to run and the former is definitely my favorite - better drummin and a 7 minute song that sounds about 4 minutes long (rosalita)

― brains, Saturday, 10 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Born To Run wins best 70's Springsteen album, for it contains both the song "Born To Run" and what may be the performance highpoint for the E Street Band, "Tenth Avenue Freeze Out."

Coming in a close second is Darkness on the Edge of Town. The first two albums are nice to have if you're a completist, but not essential.

― paul, Saturday, 10 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I think 'Darkness' is so far ahead of the earlier stuff that it seems like it's a different person sometimes, but that's not to say the first three don't have moments of entertainment value. (Not a put- down btw - how many records are actually entertaining, really?) I think the main difference is that the early stuff relies on endless character names and geography in an attempt to give 'sweep' or 'depth' or whatever, but who's the 'Magic Rat' and who could care? (Sort of like 'Transformer', which was equally fake and cartoony but at least Candy Darling was a real person whom you could look up if the ref interested you). It's often heard that the early stuff was musically more varied and experimental, but I just think it sounds unfocused or confused or perhaps just youthfully exuberant - OK leave aside 'Jungleland' that's a sui generis but the other 'experiment' songs like 'Wild Billy' and 'Meeting Across the River' just sound amateurish (OK 'innocent' - split the diff 'experimental'?) compared to grenades like "Candy's Room" or "State Trooper", even the weirdo stuff that would've seemed like weirdo stuff for him if it didn't also become massive chartbusting weirdo stuff ("Hungry Heart" and "Dancing in the Dark", both of which elicited "No, who is this REALLY? WTF!?" reactions among fans) I happen to think the tight constructions on 'Darkness' and 'River' evinced far more MUSICAL intelligence than the kitchen-sink stuff, and my fave track pre-78 is "Thunder Road" which sounds like a premonition of 'Darkness' anyway (altho "Badlands" absolutely trounces it IMO)(More Reed/Springsteen parallels - the sweeping, portentous, apply-to-your- life-cuz'll-it'll-make-sense-just-like-astrology epics ["Heroin" = "BTR"] vs the 4.30 AM stuff ["Coney Island Baby" = "I'm on Fire" etc]. "Factory" vs the Factory? I hear a lot of VU on the new one ("Miracle" esp), maybe he detected a bit of condescenscion after that 'Street Hassle' thing and decided to turn the table on shock- treatment boy by doing for "Waiting for My Man" what "Badlands" did for "Sweet Jane", ie "Nice chugging gtr chord drone, Lou. My, what an ideas man you are, seriously. But how about using this cool guitar style you invented and losing all the downtown boho shit?") I don't listen to 'Asbury Park' at all however, sounds a bit too close to Van Morrison for my crass, rootless cosmopitan ear. (BTW anybody notice how the end of "Worlds Apart" sounds exactly like the end of Black Sabbath's "Wheels of Confusion"? Sab/Springsteen = Floyd/Reed for people who have to actually work for a living?)

― dave q, Sunday, 11 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Classic Q.

Yes, track 8 (?) on Greetings = total Van.

But elsewhere Dylan and the premonition of... Counting Crows! Yes, you're spot on about the pointless 'characters' and 'places'. Thing is, he dropped that so clearly - I mean, does *any* of it survive into the 80s? I don't hear any Blind Pirates on Nebraska.

I buy the 4:30 am thing but I don't hear Lou on The Rising.

Thunder Road beats Badlands, surely. (But does it beat... Born To Run??)

Other qn: what were the dates of the LPs? Did he really release 2 in 1975?

― the pinefox, Sunday, 11 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Greetings: Late '72, early '73
Wild & Innocent: '73
Born to Run: '75
Darkness: '78
The River: '81(?)

― Mark, Sunday, 11 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I think one of the reasons "Hungry Heart" elicited so much surprised reactions was that Bruce originally wrote that song for The Ramones of all bands. Considering that he also co-wrote Patti Smith's biggest chart hit and supposedly had a cameo on the Dictators' "Faster and Louder" there's an odd sort of relation betwixt Bruce and punk rock that intrigues me. I'm curious as to what the general theory/consensus on that phase of Springsteen's career is.

― Nate Patrin, Sunday, 11 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't forget his worship of Suicide, which inspired "State Trooper."

― Mark, Monday, 12 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom Waits called the early Springsteen material (they were compared to each other all the time then) "Little black and white films" which I thought captured "Wild Billy's Circus Story" and "Meeting Accross the River" perfectly. Dave Q might say "student films, yeah" but I thought they were pretty affecting, just the same.

My favorite 70s LP is the Wild, the Innocent & the E Street Shuffle. Heavy Van Morrison influence on that one, but that sort of thing sounds better coming from an American I think. What a weird sound the band had on that album, very loose rhythm (I liked that drummer better than Weinburg), tuba, huge brass crescendos. The live version of "Incident on 57th Street" that was a b-side to one of the Born to Run singles was incredible, showed how interesting and melodic Springsteen was as a guitar player.

― Mark, Monday, 12 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

What I'd like to know about these albums: what happened to Max Weinberg between BORN TO and DARKNESS? For the first 3 albums he was pretty much a madman - lots of rolls, dynamic speedups & slowdowns (always with the rest of the band in tow), just an all around high- pressure drummer. Then, on DARKNESS, he emerged as sort of staid and plodding..which he's been ever since. Was this a decision on his part? Bruce's? Was it involuntary? A small stroke or something? Do tell if you've ever heard.

― Matt Riedl (veal), Monday, 12 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

jesus, Q, you should really write a book about springsteen. you're always like 50% dead on headslappingly whydn't i think of that & 50% what's he on about now...(in a good way). you could be the next dave marsh, maaaaaaaaan.

― fritz, Monday, 12 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Matt -- Weinburg didn't play on the first two albums or the song "Born to Run." And Born to Run was so thick and layered it was hard to hear what he was doing (which was a good thing, IMO, I always thought his drums were kind of obnoxious.)

― Mark, Monday, 12 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Sheez! That explains a lot. I'll save my knowitallness for when I really need it, I s'pose. Thanks...

― Matt Riedl (veal), Monday, 12 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

It's true about Q - he hits the heights when it comes to the Boss.

The drummer on Greetings is awful. The Boss should have pared the whole thing back down - 'Growing Up' is best when it's just piano.

― the pinefox, Monday, 12 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

The drummer on Greetings is awful.

What do you think of his playing on The Wild, The Innocent... (& what do you think of the record in general.)

― Mark, Monday, 12 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Never heard it!!

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 13 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the drummer (Vinny, thanks, I finally looked) on the first 2 albums is much more energetic and I really dig his scene. He falls off here and there, but always shoots for more than he's capable of, a plus from where I stand (ambition wins out over lack thereof). And the cool shuffly-thing he does at the end of "Saint in the City" - that kind of thing simply doesn't exist in later Springsteen, though the later stuff has its own charms. Drumming's not among them. I'm kind of a Max-hater. They were more of a BAND then, instead of being subjugated to the boss' will (tho it WAS his band, clearly). And "Growing Up" is fine just the way it is!

― Matt Riedl (veal), Tuesday, 13 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Hi all...just browsing thru the site and saw a Springsteen post, and as is my duty, I must call the "Boss" out for being REALLY bad. I just can't see what the big deal about this Jersey John Cougar is. And before you say that "I just don't get it", know that I actually can see the quality in other bands with cult followings like Buffett, Dylan, the Dead, etc. He wants to be deep like Dylan so very badly, but what comes out is crap like Bored in the USA. After all, he can't be that good if it takes him 17 or so years between subpar albums.

― phil ronniger, Tuesday, 13 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

jackass

― J Blount, Tuesday, 13 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey pinefox or Dave Q -- why don't you write something on Springsteen for FT? I would LOVE to read that.

― Mark, Tuesday, 13 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

seven years pass...

I got about 13 Bruce records for free from a friend (they were his Dad's; he's got no time for the Boss, apparently) and I have become quite enamored.

I haven't even opened up the live box yet, still just going through the albums. I love it all right now, too. Just hearing his voice makes me feel good, it's kind of crazy. Never expected this to happen. The whole thing started when I heard "tenth ave. freeze out" at a crucial moment. I don't think I'll find another song in his discography I like as much as that one, but I don't mind looking.

One of the records is a 2lp bootleg! Loving some Bruce.

This looked like the coolest Springsteen thread to revive.

― Trip Maker, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 15:42 (fifteen years ago)

dave q otm. have you made it to darkness/river era yet?

― iatee, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 15:48 (fifteen years ago)

wait till you hear the Tenth Avenue Freeze Out on the live hammersmith cd that came out a year or two ago. you'll go crazy.

― Jamie_ATP, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 15:51 (fifteen years ago)

I have been enjoying both Darkness and The River. I actually had to give The River back to my friend cuz that was his sentimental favorite. He gave me Tunnel of Love when I returned The River (he assumed I wouldn't want Tunnel for some reason but he was DEAD WRONG). I went ahead and dubbed the River but I'm sure I'll be able to find a cheap used copy one of these days.

I honestly love it all so far. Will have to look for this hammersmith cd.

― Trip Maker, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 15:55 (fifteen years ago)

honestly, i think brooce bootlegs/live records are way better than his records. records are good, but the live shows are what convinced me that the guy was great.

― tylerw, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 15:57 (fifteen years ago)

I find the pre-BTR albums pretty hard going for the most part. My favourite song from that era would be "For You". Again, though, the version on the Hammersmith recording trounces the original.

― anagram, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 16:00 (fifteen years ago)

live stuff is great, but 'darkness' is as perfect as bruce gets imo

― iatee, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 16:01 (fifteen years ago)

Yeah, my least favorite is Greetings so far.
Like his soul stuff more than his Dylan stuff, but I've become pretty partial to the straight pop stuff in the last couple of days. I think I'll wait until the weekend to get into the live stuff.

― Trip Maker, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 16:04 (fifteen years ago)

i've kinda come around to bruce, pre-BTR - -via bootlegs of course. There's this sweet Max's Kansas City tape that shows off a different, kinda funkier Bruce. More like Van Morrison kinda.

― tylerw, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 16:05 (fifteen years ago)

The key pre-BTR bootleg is Live At Main Point from Feb '75. Great sound quality. Contains an ur-"Thunder Road" under its original title of "Wings for Wheels".

― anagram, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 16:09 (fifteen years ago)

that live box set is pretty hit-or-miss. a lot of it i find unlistenably bombastic. you can find it in any store with a sizable collection of used vinyl for, hopefully, under $5. although i recently went into one of those "half-price books" places with a battered collection of vinyl they obviously had no idea how to price, and the springsteen live box set was in their locked "collectable" section priced at $50.

the 2nd brooce album (wild/innocent) is very van morrison-esque. i haven't listened to it in ages. maybe i'll remedy that.

personally i think his prime years are 82–87 but what do i know? actually there's another, very very long brooce thread that is very fun at points. ally and i defend bruce against neanderthals like ned who keep citing born in the usa's alleged unthinking patriotism as evidence that springsteen is without merit.

― by another name (amateurist), Wednesday, 10 March 2010 22:03 (fifteen years ago)

a lot of it i find unlistenably bombastic.

man when a springsteen fan says this, you know you got a problem

― iatee, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 22:04 (fifteen years ago)

oh i dunno, some of the muscle bound 80s stuff is a little over the top ... though I like it! the Born In The USA from the live box is wild. Arena rock at its best?

― tylerw, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 22:07 (fifteen years ago)

indeed. give one listen to his cover of "war" (or don't).

― by another name (amateurist), Wednesday, 10 March 2010 22:07 (fifteen years ago)

xpost!

― by another name (amateurist), Wednesday, 10 March 2010 22:07 (fifteen years ago)

yeah that "War" is kinda horrible, I'll admit.

― tylerw, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 22:08 (fifteen years ago)

I was originally thinking of making some kind of mix from all the records to give to my friend (the one who gave me the records) but I think it will just be lost on him.

"Got a wife and kids in Baltimore, Jack/I went out for a ride and I never went back" has got my vote for best opening line of a song ever.

― Trip Maker, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 22:09 (fifteen years ago)

Written for the Ramones!

― Roomful of Moogs (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 10 March 2010 22:10 (fifteen years ago)

otms all around

― iatee, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 22:10 (fifteen years ago)

the live shows are what convinced me that the guy was great.

I received this in an email a few years ago with the message, "Here watch this it is one of the coolest things you'll ever see and it will make you happy"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWos8TS9yaE

I bumped another Bruce thread with this video, but no one watched it. If you're just getting into him, this video will cement your love.

― Captain Ahab, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 22:13 (fifteen years ago)

Thanks, checking it now.

― Trip Maker, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 22:14 (fifteen years ago)

I like Darkness and the live shows I saw between 78 and 81 or so the best.

― curmudgeon, Thursday, 11 March 2010 03:29 (fifteen years ago)

Great thread. So fun. Forgot I posted on it years ago. I am jealous of Trip Maker. Feel like an asshole doing this, but here's a piece I wrote last year that's partly about exploring very early Springsteen bootlegs on YouTube (about some other stuff too). Looks like many of the links have been taken down now unfortunately but I'm sure they'll be back.

― Mark, Thursday, 11 March 2010 04:03 (fifteen years ago)

In singer-songwriter mode, 1972. Fantastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dy7RTicVr0

― that's not my post, Thursday, 11 March 2010 07:12 (fifteen years ago)

Lovely piece, Mark.

― ithappens, Thursday, 11 March 2010 10:28 (fifteen years ago)

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