Musical partnerships that involve an "ideas" person and an "implementation" person

Are there many examples, whereby one guy has a lot of great creative ideas but less technical ability while the other person is the "do-er" - instrumentally or vocally adept, but not the main creative force? I'm sure there are loads. How do these partnerships fare after they end - can one person carry on without the other? This was inspired by Aeroplane's recent parting of ways.

My impression of Aeroplane's division of labour was that Vito was the main ideas man AND the do-er and Stephen offered input on structure and arrangements - reining him in a little bit and providing a more commercial ear. I think this is the role Ed fulfils in the Chemical Brothers as well.

Yeah, I didn't think Aeroplane was the best example, but it's what inspired the thread.

I'm not sure about the inspiration/perspiration ratio when it came to Simon & Garfunkel?

Paul Simon was a pretty good singer too

Lots of examples where the main writer is not the main singer

You could redefine the common dance music model as DJ + musician, the DJ being the guy who checks the musician's self-indulgence and instinctively knows what works on the dancefloor. A lot of the time the musician DJs as well but he doesn't have the same kind of DJ brain.

I might be wrong on the dynamics of this, but with Future Sound Of London it certainly seems like ideas/implementation dude and wittering hippie who get the attention dude. But I don't know, it just seemed that way.

Many, many times, it seems like standard dance duo = dude with the ideas and the studio who does all the music making, and their friend and/or brother with the social skills who tells them what's going to fly and what isn't.

pet shop boys
sparks
blimey,so many...

Pet Shop Boys? Not sure about that, Tennant is pretty musical.

pet shop boys

doubt this. never got the impression that tennant was any slouch in the creative dept

haha xpost

Pink Floyd, with Waters as the ideas man and lyricist but a singer and bass player of dubious ability, and Gilmour as the main musical force.

how does autechre work btw

Paul Simon was a pretty good singer too

otm, it always surprises me when listening to S&G how many songs he actually sings lead on. makes me wonder what Art actually did half the time.

Royal Trux

Could be wrong but it always seemed to me like Richard Wright had a strong creative presence in Pink Floyd.

Tennant writes music, plays keyboards and guitars, can arrange, mixes, sings and writes 99.99999999% of the lyrics. Probably has most of the ideas too TBH.

how does autechre work btw

miracles

Simon & Garfunkel = Hall & Oates in division of ability.

how does autechre work btw

That one's easy. Neither of them has ideas or implementation.

One of them throws a load of rubbish down the stairs while the other one hits "record".

Could be wrong but it always seemed to me like Richard Wright had a strong creative presence in Pink Floyd

Probably true up to and including Wish You Were here but after that his contributions pretty much dried up.

Being in the same band as Roger Waters does that to a person

By his own admission Wright brought nothing to the table for years

infantjoy : paul morley and james banbury

the original concept was that it would only be classed an infantjoy release if paul was actually there in the studio at the same time as james cracked on with the music.

needless to say the project was short lived.

Autechre are pretty much 50/50 afaik.

musical partnership that involves "some guy" and "the guy who does everything".

http://www.aceshowbiz.com/images/news/w0000227.jpg

& how did the klf work? I always assumed Drummond was more the ideas man than Cauty.

whoever came up with the idea of MOO MOO LAND is clearly the genius in KLF.

MDMA was REALLY strong in england for a while, huh?

or maybe people just took lots of it.

ripping off faith intro kinda sad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4zAfr_pqZo&feature=related

wasnt garfunkel there mostly to sing harmony

Division of work in PSB, according to an interview = Tennant: lyrics, melodies - Lowe: bass, rhythm.

David Bowie + Carlos Alomar.
James Brown + Fred Wesley (for one)

Yello?

Yes, never forget Tennant was a folky singer-songwriter in his youth! (xxp)

There was a guy at my school who was popular due to his resemblance to Andrew Ridgeley.

Peter Sinfield and Richard Palmer-James, successive non-playing lyricists for King Crimson.

& how did the klf work? I always assumed Drummond was more the ideas man than Cauty.

They were kinda both the ideas man, with Coler and Richardson doing the implementation.

Brian Eno and everyone he's ever worked with? Including his computers and such! Okay that's really cheating.

I feel that we've had discussion along these lines before, but I dunno where.

Hmm, Kraftwerk?

I always thought K were pretty much 50/50 Ralf and Florian. That was the impression given by Pascal Bussy's book. Of course Bartos and Flur would have you believe differently.

Ralf was the main musical talent, Florian was more technical, later on Bartos contributed a lot musically. Wolfgang was there for the chicks. And I've not even mentioned Emil Schult (or Conny Plank for that matter!)

The impression I get is that as the band got more "musical" and less experimental, Ralf came more to the fore, he is a melodies guy after all

Yeah but since Electric Cafe they've been getting less melodic, don't you think?

Hmmmmm, not sure

M.I.A. and everyone she works with? She's certainly more about ideas than implementation. David Holmes likewise. They're not longrunning musical partnerships though.

james lavelle and everyone ever involved with unkle

her ideas are that other people should make music for her iirc xp

I miss the era of the big-ideas dance guy like Holmes or Lavelle who had nil musical ability but (at their best) fantastic taste in what to sample and who to work with. Can't think of an equivalent now.

would this be along the lines of Vince Clarke with Yaz then Erasure

remember liking 'don't die just yet' w/o having heard serge gainsbourg. kind of feel it's the most egregious rip-off of all time. and even then it probably wasn't holmes who did it. but hey i guess it was his idea to steal it.

Well, to go back to the original question:

a lot of great creative ideas but less technical ability while the other person is the "do-er" - instrumentally or vocally adept, but not the main creative force?

No partnership is going to fit perfectly, but how does that not describe Coyne and Drozd?

Surely the Eurythmics fit this definition.

Drozd writes music, just is not a frontman

e.g. ideas

you think what Garfunkel brought to the partnership was "all the ideas," not "sweet pipes and the occasional veto"?

Of course Eurythmics don't, they're a classic duo as with PSB. Which one do you think has the ideas?

wait wait i'm getting confused

so s&g is one dude who does everything and the other just a toilet brush with sweet pipes, ergo they don't fit the thread title. yes?

Based on Anne Lennox's solo work, I'd say Dave Stewart had all the ideas and Lennox was the voice.

jim: yes

Nate: Lennox wrote songs and played on the records. Her solo stuff sucks because she got old and boring, not because DAS had all the ideas - his solo stuff sucks because he got old and boring too. (The shitness of We Too Are One proves that it wasn't an ineluctable chemistry between them either, they were just tapped out after the genius of Savage.)

Sonny & Cher

S & B

Richey Edwards/Manic Street Preachers?

kinda. him and nicky wire wrote 100% of their lyrics up til his disappearance

"Lee Perry"

No way. The mixes MAKE those records and that's all him not whoever was in the Upsetters at that moment.

Orignal post: a lot of great creative ideas but less technical ability while the other person(s) is/are the "do-er" - instrumentally or vocally adept, but not the main creative force?

Depends how you define "technical ability" I suppose

Basement Jaxx have this sort of arrangement I believe.

Ooh! Ooh!

Nancy Sinatra and Lee Hazelwood!

Lee Hazlewood claims, sorry, claimed to have no technical ability as well

Um, he was the ideas bloke.

Nancy (among the musicians/others) implement.

Seems like hair-splitting to say that someone doesn't count as "ideas" man just because they also sing or write lyrics. Do any bands have someone who is purely ideas? In the Manics, Richey couldn't play an instrument or write music but he was the driving force behind the band's image (including record sleeves) and rhetoric. If he doesn't fit, who does?

Daft Punk

Do any bands have someone who is purely ideas?

Earl Brutus : Stuart Boreman
The Pre New : Stuart Boreman

Stuart doesn't play an instrument, nor does he get on stage when the band plays live, but from my discussions, he is a vital part of both bands.

Well he would say that, wouldn't he?

haha.
nah that advise came from jim fry directly.

x-post Didn't Hall & Oates have a third regular co-writer who wasn't in the band? A woman? Sara Allen?

Bryan Adams has a dude, Jim Vallance, that co-wrote lots of his stuff. And Mutt Lange gets a lot of credits, too, rewriting and contributing to tracks for Def Leppard?

Leonard Cohen and Sharon Robinson?

Though Robinson does tour and perform with him, so she's contributing directly as well.

"Depends how you define "technical ability" I suppose"

Also depends on how you define "other person". A rotating band of talented session musicians doesn't meet mine.

I've always wondered how the classic Underworld line-up worked. In terms of this thread I guess I've always thought there was an Emerson / Freur dynamic.

And Mutt Lange gets a lot of credits, too, rewriting and contributing to tracks for Def Leppard?

So since Def Leppard specifically approach, hire, and schedule their time around Lange’s availability to write, arrange, produce, sing and play on their records, you’re saying there’s a two-person partnership where All Of Def Leppard are The Ideas Man, and Mutt Lange is The Implementation Guy? Does he use an elaborate system of holograms to appear as though there are five of them on tour when it’s just him blowing a kazoo and hitting a bread tin with his knees?

Based on Anne Lennox's solo work, I'd say Dave Stewart had all the ideas and Lennox was the voice.

Thought about this again too – to go with this, you have to assume Stewart’s credits for producing, playing guitar, playing keyboards, playing synthesisers, playing bass, playing dulcimer, playing xylophone, programming sequencers, programming drum machines, and singing are all kind lies from Lennox to make him feel better about his musical and technical inabilities.

gotta be a dialogue in most cases... How can you express musical ideas if you have no way of implementing them yourself?

Lennox-Stewart are another bad example: both seem equally responsible for their successes and failures as Eurythmics.

Morrissey - Marr?

are any of you people actually reading the thread title

OK, OK....Fred and Barney?

The only one I think qualifies so far is Bernie Taupin.

then I think you are confusing ideas with lyrics and implementation with music?

Soft Cell
Massive Attack

Madonna....and her collaborators.

Soft Cell

which one has the ideas?

Massive Attack

if you mean 3D and Davidge, mmmmmmaybe you're in the right area. but that's not the lineup, and as 3D is still the main lyricist and a lead vocalist even if he didn't do anything else hands-on, nope.

150 posts and no one's mentioned THE FUCKING WHO?!?

George Clinton + everyone he's ever worked with

James Brown + everyone he's ever worked with

Robert Hunter / Jerry Garcia

Would someone mind explaining David Holmes to me? I love a big chunk of his work and his latest album was really underrated and enjoyable. Who was responsible for Let's Get Killed? Kooner & Tenniswood? I see Goldsworthy is credited a bunch too. Crazy. I knew about Lavelle being the ideas man but didn't realize Holmes was too.

Peter Sinfield as a Crim

Mark E. Smith?

James Brown + everyone he's ever worked with

― glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, August 13, 2010 12:32 PM (17 minutes ago)

James Brown + Fred Wesley (for one)

― Bali Eiffel Tower Hai (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, August 10, 2010 9:48 AM (3 days ago)

xpost. All I know about Holmes's MO is what James Murphy has said about him and Tim G working on Bow Down to the Exit Sign. Holmes would have records he wanted to sound like and ideas for who should work on them, then he just made some calls. I don't know exactly what he did in the studio - he obviously had some degree of ability from his techno days but not enough musical chops to make more ambitious, live-sounding tracks.

Actually, have you read Fred Wesley's book Hit Me, Fred: Recollections of a Side Man?

yeah great book. actually I've cited it a bunch on various threads (usually when people are getting a little overenthusiastic about Brown's musical "abilities")

pretty much every incarnation of psychic tv

I've always heard Rick Rubin described this way on the engineering end, as far as having the ideas and the big ears but is not necessarily technically adept at making a record.

If the Dixie Chicks movie is any indication, this is indeed the case. In fact, he apparently "produced" their record without actually entering the studio, but met with them a few times in person to offer such indispensable nuggets of wisdom as "Hm. Good chorus."