PASTELS POLL!! PASTELS POLL EVERYBODY!!!

Tricky. Went with Million Tears.

Funnily enough, so did I!

Lock thread

"Truck Train Tractor" / "Breaking Lines" Glass (GLASS 48)
first one i heard, on the Peter Easton show. (does he still have a show?)

Did Joe Strummer ever do "Truck Train Tractor"?

He should have.

so should Jonathan Richman

He could do "Get around town" if he likes.

Comin' Through or Truck Train Trouble.

Or maybe even Crawl Babies.

I don't knooooooowowwwwwww.

I thought you'd hate the Pastels, K8! Too twee surely?!

Oh fuck it, Crawl Babies. What a fucking chorus on that.

They're not fucking twee, they were C86 or whatever before there was a twee to hate. Fit right in with the Mary Chain and the Shop Assistants as far as I'm concerned.

I have their VHS up in the loft someplace...

Now I am listening to Truckload of Trouble and I want to sing along with their version of Different Drum as tunelessly as I can.

I don't know why I am prepared to put up with all the things I HATE HATE HATE about twee and indie (the kind of purposeful uselessness) from the Pastels - I think it's because they have this air of simultaneously *caring* so much and putting in such effort, and yet at the same time being utterly effortless about it all. Also that things like the drums and the guitars are really quite well played, while the voices, although sloppy, are so up front and centre.

It's like an actual weird home made three-armed sweater instead of someone that's made a three-armed sweater from an official indie pattern because indie clothes are supposed to be home made and weird.

They're just twee dude

They really aren't, dude.

Truck Train Tractor every time.

Though if Get Round Town had been a single, it would have been incontestable.

The thing about the Pastels is that despite their limited abilities at performing, they tried to make the best music they possibly could. Therefore it's easy to see why so many who followed but missed the point and made an endless amount of terrible music.

Bad grammar, but yeah.

voted Truck Train Tractor but <3<3<3 Thru Your Heart/Firebell Ringin'

the glass singles all better than the creation singles, though i am probably just sick of the latter from early overexposure

And the Sittin' Pretty album stands head and shoulders over their other work, I'd say.

Comin' Through, hands down.

I think it's worth noting that on the B-side of Million Tears is Baby Honey.

Absolutely.

They're not fucking twee

They virtually invented it

The thing about the Pastels is that despite their limited abilities at performing, they tried to make the best music they possibly could. Therefore it's easy to see why so many who followed but missed the point and made an endless amount of terrible music.

Uhhhhhhhhh, how many bands don't try to make the best music they possibly they could?

um, there was a lot of "let's play not to the best of our abilities" bands around.

Who?

Bands playing and singing deliberately badly? Les Dawson style?

... or Stephen Pastel style, if you prefer

Nirvana on TOTP ftw

Is there a thread somewhere on intentionally terrible performances?

Difference between that an intentionally terrible career

Bands playing and singing deliberately badly?

Basically, most of twee and deliberately shambolic indie pop.

Playing deliberately badly though? Or just not being able to play?

Playing simply, yes, I can see that

Yeah how many C86 shamblers later dropped the act and went on to careers as Jazz session musicians?

Choosing to play in a more simple manner and not at the absolute threshhold of your technique ≠ "not playing at the best of your abilities" of course

Yeah how many C86 shamblers later dropped the act and went on to careers as Jazz session musicians?

Kev Hopper of Stump, kind of.

Not exactly a three chord bumbler when in Stump

I dunno, a suprising amount of people who were sort of shambling around the London scene in rubbish indie bands dropped the act and went on to be in post-rock bands as soon as that became fashionable, and started pretending that they could play really well.

pretending that they could play really well.

Like that "pretending".

yes.

Put a set of dissonant chords and 'out-of-time' playing onto a music stave, and it looks really difficult to play.

'Cos as we know, indie bands are all really good sight readers

Is this kind of like the Soup Dragons being all twee and bumbling and then suddenly discovering that they were in fact the funkiest, most soulful dudes ever in all history since the Stone Roses?

Obvious example of folks in this approximate sphere playing in a deliberately terrible-according-to-convention way: Jad Fair's approach to the guitar (deliberately untuned, refuses to learn how to play etc)

Is this kind of like the Soup Dragons being all twee and bumbling and then suddenly discovering that they were in fact the funkiest, most soulful dudes ever in all history since the Stone Roses?

I always write all these incidences off as "a decent Producer can polish a turd".

Stump did a bunch of things but shambling was not one of them.

never thought of Soup dragons as twee & bumbling, more a Buzzcocks ripoff. although Buzzocks did have some feyness. someone should do a Pre86 compilation of all the bands that influenced that scene Byrds/Buzzcocks/Dolly Mixture etc

Soup Dragons were twee, for a while anyway, but they were never bumbling in a "Oh look at us, we can't play, aren't we adorable" way.

I hope to christ the singer didn't sound like that when he was trying

Och, nobody can sing anyway. But they certainly didn't "deliberately play badly" or whateva

I was of the opinion that nobody was "deliberately" playing badly.

That's what I said!

They all knew Aggi couldn't sing but deliberately allowed her to. It was a Yoko/Linda McCartney thing. Or possibly a Jonathan Richman/Dan Treacy thing. Other than that the line-up that recorded these tracks was pretty badass. To me when they all quit the Pastels became a totally different, lesser band.

I mean, I guess everytone thinks that.

ehh i dunno as much as i love a lot of those early singles, illumination is the only album under the pastels name that i like from start to finish

I like the first album from start to finish and my favourite stuff of theirs is probably on Sitting Pretty though it's a bit patchy. But recordings aside, it's as a band in the broader sense that they were great. Great sound, great songs, great gigs, great look etc. Also they contributed a hell of a lot to the scene at the time. By putting on gigs, running record labels and all that. They were very cool.

If Aggi was who was yelling "I'm alright with you" at the fadeout, then it's not "singing" but something as important.

Aggi also sings on this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ncazlkzhAI

i'd probably skip ahead a couple of records to point to the best aggi stuff (cycle, etc), but her not being able to sing seems kinda skewed. her voice is this treacly, thick thing, the female equivalent of stephen's. it's so distinct and full.

The thing about the Pastels is that despite their limited abilities at performing, they tried to make the best music they possibly could

so otm. there isn't fetishisation of, or contrived, mistake making. it's just messy but with a lot of heart.

But recordings aside, it's as a band in the broader sense that they were great. Great sound, great songs, great gigs, great look etc. Also they contributed a hell of a lot to the scene at the time. By putting on gigs, running record labels and all that.

i think it's the same impulse that informed both though - wanting to connect and be inclusive and change things. you can find some of the paraphernalia for old pastels events and nights and things online, there's so much love put into them.

The thing about the Pastels is that despite their limited abilities at performing, they tried to make the best music they possibly could

so otm. there isn't fetishisation of, or contrived, mistake making. it's just messy but with a lot of heart.

Don't agree, I saw them live a lot (I never really listened to their records) and there was definitely a fetishisation of amateurishness and incompetence - certainly from their fans! "Oh we made a mistake, we're going to have to start that one again" *giggle giggle*

But tbh, when I hear people talking about the Pastels these days, I wonder if they're talking about another band

Anyway, I don't know what single "Baby Honey" was on - if it was on a single - but that was invariably the higlight (usu. the only one) of any Pastels set I saw!

I think that's the thing, though. That the fetishisation of incompetence came from the *fans* because the records are definitely the sound of people trying to make the best thing they could with limited resources. It seems to me like other people fetishised their incompetence, but they didn't really seem to fetishise their own in the same way.

I really it may seem like a narrow distinction, but mostly I guess it's because it didn't seem so much of a *thing* the way that it later became within that scene.

That it was at the time a reaction against the slick, corporate, mechanised landscape of overproduced 80s pop - but in the hands of other people it became not a statement but just copying something that someone else was doing.

It seems to me like other people fetishised their incompetence, but they didn't really seem to fetishise their own in the same way.

I think you might be right but the band encouraged it in a lot ways. Anyway it was (one of) the bane(s) of my life anyway in Glasgow in the 80s!

But tbh, when I hear people talking about the Pastels these days, I wonder if they're talking about another band

ha-ha. I totally agree with this. My memories are that this line-up were pretty proficient although sometimes they were plagued with really bad sound at their gigs fairly regularly.

The incompetent bands of the 80s in Scotland usually were paticularly incompetent at drumming. The Jesus and Mary Chain, Shop Assistants, BMX Bandits, Meat Whiplash - none of them had proper drummers. Just some pal banging away on an old snare with a tambourine taped on it or something. They all eventually moved passed that of course. THAT'S willful incompetence.

On the other hand the Pastels had Bernice who was a solid drummer that could play a drumkit. Martin and Brian were both good musicians. For quite a while Brian Taylor of the Pastels was widely considered to be the coolest dude in Glasgow. Stephen has always been a shy and self-concious performer so maybe people thought he was being "incompetent" at times but when they were on form it came across as a kind of aloof concentration that worked pretty well.

THAT'S willful incompetence.

No, that's adapting! It can be impossible to find a decent drummer.

This is true

wasn't more of a Mo Tucker fetish anyway?

Yes, the Velvets had a similar problem.

Unless Angus was actually terrific....

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

so...

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Love the bassline on "A Million Tears" so much.

just heard that Rough Trade single for the first time via Consolation Prizes and its quite surprisingly together sounding, with Strawberry Switchblade on backing vocals, Jowe Head on bass etc.

"I'm alright" should have got more, but these results are about right.