Why didn't Shyne get more critical love?

I just picked up Shyne's debut, and while I've seen ILXors talking about him being a quality rapper, the critics seemed to hate him at the time. What's the main reason for the disparity? Do we think it might be because in 2000, he was unfairly hurt by the comparisons to Biggie, and that in retrospect, now that time has passed, he's no longer harmed by it?

I'm just curious as other than Gucci Mane, there doesn't seem to be many other rappers that have as great a divide between ILX and mainstream mag opinions on a rapper.

Association with Puffy + sounding alarmingly like Biggie = this guy is sort of a joke/clone right? At least that's kinda how I remember it.

yeah he doesnt really sound all that much like biggie tho

there are plenty of other rappers tho -- i.e. master p -- who ilxors will rep for that dont get mainstream rap mag love

and plenty who get that love NOW but didnt earlier in their careers -- jayz, UGK, etc

At the time his debut came out, all I listened to was hip hop and I remember being really into whatever his first single was. I bought the album and loved it but just recently tried to get back into it and can't remember what I loved so much.

in his defence, he was better than gorilla (guerilla?) black.

hmm truth be told I don't love Shyne, I like his voice but his lyrics are kinda bland in places. still playing this a lot though.

i think the first shyne album is a great record. the follow up single w/ the grace jones sample is a jam & so is the one that flips 'magic wand' beat ("its ok" I think?) and SPEND SOME CHEESE

follow up single? wasn't "bad boys" his first joint out?

that is such a ill sample btw

I have the second one on order right now. I mean ultimately I think the debut's a good album, but I kinda see why some people felt his lyrics fell a little short. still some of the reviews I read of his debut were really guilty of double standards, and ultimately penalized him for the Biggie connection.

the full LP is not that good?

bad boys is a grace jones sample? I meant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk5ANy3XsWc

yeah, "nightclubbing"

haw didnt realize he tried to exactly replicate the grace jones x barrington levy formula twice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VdG1sML4F8

in his defence, he was better than gorilla (guerilla?) black.

― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Tuesday, September 21, 2010 7:42 AM (3 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

here I would disagree

"Bonnie N Shyne" is a classic and definitely would have been on my hip hop/R&B crossover list if i didn't feel conflicted about where dancehall artists fit into all that. "Bad Boys" is aight too. the stigma with Shyne these days has less to do w/ Biggie comparisons and more to do with the fact that he's had like 3 big money major label deals thrown at him now and has yet to justify any of them in any substantial way.

I remember thinking (and reading similar opinions) something along the lines of "a lot of potential". I guess spending most the decade after his first record in jail stopped him achieving anything. B&S was dope and the album had some bangers but it was too much like the cliche problem people having with rap albums iirc (too many unfunny skits, a song for ladieez, a party song, a hood song etc. - felt totally calculated instead of being inspired).

shyne seems to me like someone who a lot of people in nyc cared about, but that's about it & that he gets tons of hype & big major deals bcuz of the nyc hivemind -- like saigon before saigon or something, w/ the exception that shyne actually put out an album & had some songs chart etc

at least it makes a bit of sense that he's beloved in nyc because of the west indian population up there

yeah that type happens a lot. see the career of percee p.

that may be the way hes seen today but was certainly not the case in the late 90s coming off a string of puffy #1s & dropping actual-hits like 'bad boys' -- was not really a 'regional artist' then. if thats who cares about him now its cuz that was his core

I still say Loon's Bad Boy career is the reason all of new york hiphop is dead today. It was the tipping point of people just buying into any old shit.

combat jack:

"Clark Kent discovered Shyne and sent him directly to me. Shyne's manager at the time was Manny Holley (who would go on to manage Keisha Cole). I created the bidding war for Shyne between Bad Boy, Def Jam, and Elektra Records. Here's how: Elektra contacted me because they were looking for someone to ghostwrite some songs for their then-artist, MC Lyte. I instantly thought of Shyne; even though he was unsigned, he stayed writing new material. At the meeting Shyne was more than ready and pulled out a notebook with ill material he had written for Lyte the night before. Rhyming from his book and from a female's perspective, Shyne had been diligent about his craft, professional about this opportunity, and he killed it dead. Elektra wanted to sign him on the spot, especially since they didn't have a strong hip-hop roster, while a couple of blocks away labels like Island Def Jam/Universal and Bad Boy/Arista were dominating the genre with artists like DMX, Jay-Z, Ja Rule, and others.

"It was the end of the year though, holiday season. A lot of the top execs liked to vacation at the swank island of St. Barts. It so happened that during this go-round, Sylvia Rhone, president of Elektra, was hanging out with Chris Lighty, who was then a big at Def Jam, and Sean Combs. As the weekend progressed, every time Sylvia saw either Puff and/or Chris, she'd taunt them with, 'Y'all niggas ain't got shit on my next artist Shyne. You watch who's gonna be that top rapper next year.' She taunted hard, probably because she had that liquor in her. So certain was she that Shyne was going to be signed, sealed, and delivered by year's start, she felt free to talk shit. It didn't help that Clark had already co-signed Shyne to Puff, and hearing Sylvia's boasts only magnified his interest in the young Brooklyn rapper. What she didn't expect was once they were back in the privacy of their private lodgings, both Chris and Puff were heavy in research mode, calling every and anyone in New York City to find out if they knew anything else about this kid named Shyne that Sylvia wanted to sign and how soon they could set up a meeting with him.

"By the time she landed back in New York, Sylvia quickly and painfully realized that the decent deal she had placed on the table to lock Shyne down as an exclusive artist was now being flanked and dwarfed by both Def Jam and Bad Boy. Overnight, Shyne and Manny were thrust smack dab in the eye of a biding war storm. Word spread like fire: Shyne was going to change the world. Execs from other labels tried to put a bid in. Shyne and Manny took all meetings. But it came down to Elektra, Def Jam, and Bad Boy. Actually, once Def Jam and Bad Boy joined the party, Sylvia Rhone and Elektra became an afterthought. There was no way in the world Elektra stood a chance once two of the biggest rap labels at the time put their offers in. I hate what happened to Shyne, how that shooting incident damn near killed his career, all them years he spent behind bars, and the painful steps he's publicly taking to reclaim his spot. Still, as far as I'm concerned, Shyne will always be the official last Bad Boy."

shyne's first record is pretty great to me.

I think Shyne's second album is better

yeah that type happens a lot. see the career of percee p.

― a hoy hoy, Friday, September 24, 2010 12:55 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

his album from a couple years ago was pretty dope IMO

Interesting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJa9iaINsn0

looks like he's planning on putting out new album in April. wonder how it will be received...

wtf his dad is the prime minister of belize!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shyne