Smashing Pumpkins: Fresh Fruit or Rotten Veg?

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A unique and versatile group or a bunch of pretentious goths? You decide.

― Philip Alderman, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

i liked a couple of tracks per album - not my thing really - not unique or versatile - when billy became fester they got even worse

― Geordie Racer, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

I am, truly, a pathetic fan. And I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE.

Classic, full up, full stop. I'm glad I've never had even the slightest opportunity to interact with Billy Corgan in real life, he'd drive me crazy, I figure. But oh man, all that good music. I love it all down to every last strangled squeal in his voice. Refer to these entries in the FT 136 list for more slavering if you really care:

Adore

Siamese Dream

Mellon Collie

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

That's pathetic, Ned.

I think I liked the Smashing Pumpkins okay with Gish and Siamese Dream because, although they were really just classic rock slightly warmed over, it was updated slightly and had some good associations in my life. I remember listening to Gish fairly often with someone who...well, never mind the details. When Mellon Collie came out, though, it became very clear to me that they were really a band who worshipped at the altar of classic rawk, esp. the bad overwrought and overblown kind, and that's really where I lost interest. When they scaled back on subsequent albums, there really wasn't much good material there, and I couldn't really be bothered to find the good stuff anymore.

― Sean Carruthers, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

I said I was pathetic. Did I lie? ;-) Check the AMG entries on some of the bootlegs.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

I'll use this rare opportunity of not entirely disagreeing with Ned, to say that Siamese Dream is indeed pretty great, and "1979" is one of my favorite songs. The other stuff I can take or leave.

― Patrick, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

at least actual rotten vegetables are useful as compost. smashing pumpkins aren't even that.

― ethan, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

I had a little skirmish on Bitchpork (message board) a few weeks ago in which I defended Billy Corgan and SP from a self-righteous Frank Black fan (yes, of his new album, too--blechhhhh). It's hard for me to separate SP from being a 9th grader and listening to "Siamese Dream" EVERY DAY FOR MONTHS and worshipping it, but nonetheless I put it on a few months ago and it hit hard, real hard. I gave "Mellon Collie" another listen, too, and there's surprisingly little filler. I remember not having the attention span to take it all in at once when it first came out, though. Still, I feel like it's only when you become an anal analyst of music-- worried about being pretentious or uncool, worried about whether Corgan and Co. are "too goth" or something-- that stuff like SP starts to become suspect. I'm sick as hell of worrying about that, so I'm going to say classic. I haven't heard "Adore" or anything after, but based solely on "Siamese Dream" and "Mellon Collie"--absolutely classic. Hmm, I think I'll go listen to them now...

― Clarke B., Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Monumental dud. Rotten to the core. What stunned me was how such a slight band got so far. With Gish they all had some kind of individual imput, (more democratic), before Billy, or the record company, got the idea into his head that he was an artist, and turned them from a distinctive sound into a vehicle for his ego. The focus of the music turned to his performance, supporting his every indulgence, which would have been fine if he carried the same gravitas as the sound, or promotional campaign behind him. A case of Emperor's New Clothes, I couldn't understand why so many people didn't notice the disparity between his shallow introspection and their collossal sound. It might have worked with humour or irony but he was deadly serious, and so were his fans (at the time he was compared to Kobain???, and he sounds like he believed it). An embarrassment, I can't even bring myself to admit that 1979 was modest enough to survive. They can't be unique cause they did the same thing over and over, varing the scale. Versatility - the musicians were, but I never heard anything they did outside of the band.

― K-reg, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Monstrous dud. 'Gish' I must admit was quite dreamy in a post-Jane's Addiction way. But after that! By Thor, the pretentions, the bald head, the whiny bastard voice, the smug attitude, the lack of tunes. Utterly insignificant.

― Omar, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Classic singles band ca. SAD MELLON, and up to "Ava Adore." Never bothered with the albums (uh, so not TOO classic on the singles then). Early stuff dud - Hendrix-styled guitar solos/tones a welcome surprise for an indie-aligned band, but still dullsville.

― AP, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Oh they are great! Mellon Collie is one of the best albums of all time (almost)...Billy has a big ego, but I admire his sense of melodrama...and for a modern rock band they were quite innovative, and quit just before they became a parody of themselves. Though, I do think they will reform, they are like the modern Grateful Dead, they will still be playing in 2025.

― james e l, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

The question is surely irrelevant. Smashing Pumpkins have been SCIENTIFICALLY PROVED to be the WORST BAND IN THE WORLD.

― Tom, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

I'm not quite sure I'd say they were classic, but _Adore_ is certainly an underrated album. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say it's thebest thing they ever released.

― Dan Perry, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Their version of "Dancing In The Moonlight" is at least better than Toploader's.

But not by much.

Would be classic for Siamese Dream, but dud for Adore, Machina and the fact that they could have edited Mellon Collie down to a single disc brilliancy - and didn't. Also, dud for bad song titles.

― EdwardO, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Idiots who believed their own hype. Glad they're gone. Dud.

― alex in nyc, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Despite all my rage, my solo album will be "new age".

― Billy Corgan, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Another pure classic. Siamese Dream is still up in my top 10 favourite albums of all time, and Cherub Rock is surely one of the greatest full on rock songs ever written, I saw them on the Siamese Dream tour in Liverpool and it was only my second ever gig, but one of my favourites. I think their output went downhill slightly after Mellon Collie...(which has to be one of the only double albums, along with Physical Graffiti, to have virtually no filler material) but Adore and Machina are still 100% better than any other so-called hard rock band have put out. I just hope they get back together soon.

― achilles_last_stand, Saturday, 12 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Bwah hah hah! No filler material! Please stop, I can't breathe.

I read a great thing in Gina Arnold's book "Kiss This" about how the Bullet With Butterfly Wings video was based around this painting of children trying to get out of being trapped in a coal mine or something, and how incredibly obnoxious it was that Billy Corgan would equate his angst with such horrendous suffering. I liked parts of "Siamese Dream", but I think one album of semi- romantic angst and mediocre prog-Sabbath guitar work is enough. So Dud, for sticking around too long, and for inexplicably blaming their failure on Britney.

― Dave M., Saturday, 12 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

five months pass...

I would have to say "a unique and versatile group" in reference to earlier material. Up to and including Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness I enjoyed Smashing Pumpkins. It's a non-intrusive kind of music that can't exactly fit into a genre. I saw a decline happening prior to the release of Adore. Then after hearing the odd attempt at fitting into a genre, I went back to MC&IS. With Machina I saw no comeback, only a further descent into doomed stardom. Machina II, however, was a very unique statement, very fitting for Smashing Pumpkins. All in all I couldn't say Billy Corgan and crew are pretentious goths. They're just genre-less artists being pushed around by the music industry.

― James Hunyar, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Great big fat bloated DUD. 'Gish' did posess a mildly pleasing hazy neo-psychedelic sheen, unlike the flatulent rock histrionics that followed. I walked out of a 'Siamese Dream' gig feeling slightly nauseous at being exposed to so much smug mastubatory guitar- soloing.

― stevo, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

They weren't even the best band whose name was of the form Smashing [fruit] in 1991.

'1979' is ok, but not as good as its title. Everything else is excrement.

― Michael Jones, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

a bit of both. I'm another for whom the Pumpkins were a favorite band in high school .. 'Siamese Dream' is still an excellent rock album, Billy Corgan's one successful opus .. still sounds great today. thick, ridiculously beefy guitars, perfect mix of rawking out and sensitive effeminacy .. still very much intending to be rock, but still with a glance at the less formulaic dimensions, 'Loveless' in particular .. classic as one of those 'diary' albums for yr typical emotional high school kid. sounds cheesy, but "saved my life!"

.. then they started putting out shitty albums. I lost interest after Melon Collie. bloated wank. and his voice became ever-more- hideous. such sludge.. they'll be most useful in that regard for documenting very clearly a band just completely losing their artistic vision and soul. I've only heard 'Machina' once, but it was so lifeless...

that said, I'll list a few of their best rare tracks so that brave souls can attempt to get another perspective on the band. they did have a few obscure b-sides and such that won't likely turn up on any best hits collection. search for these on your favorite music- trading platform ..

* daughter - a rare demo from 1989 or so, just two minutes of ethereal guitar & singing

* siamese dream - the song, not the album. very lo-fi, scratchy acid folk piece

* pulseczar - feedback-drenched psychedelia. slightly twee, too.

* their cover of Depeche Mode's 'Never Let Me Down Again' - better than the original. very light touch, just guitar, bass, drums and for once not the 'soundwall' approach ... brings you up to an imagined peak, then lets you down ..

* their cover of 'Dancing in the Moonlight' - soft, acoustic. if you don't mind his voice, this is a great song.

* obscured - a slow, drifting rock song. spacey, but subdued. nice.

* smiley - slow, simple pop. his voice on the deep end for once.

* Eye - darkwave/synthpop song from the Lost Highway soundtrack, great if you like that sort of thing

* the Moby remix of '1979' - doesn't contain anything of the original song except for that skipping vocal 'tweee-ee' effect super- slowed down. the actual music itself isn't much like Moby's usual fare, especially not like 'Play' -- imagine if the Boards of Canada had a VERY bad trip. I love this song.

* Drown -- not the most rare Pumpkins song, it was on the Reality Bites soundtrack. 3 or so minutes of rock, then 4 of the best kind of guitar feedback drone, yumm..

* Starla - only if you're into guitar wankery. Corgan goes off for about 5 minutes, and most of it is actually pretty entertaining, if not exactly Fennesz..

― Dare, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

classic or dud" isnt about how much you like a particular group. its about how they enudre, how much they produce, etc. so classic all the way. (yea billys an egomaniac, but so are most rock stars."

― chameleon, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one month passes...

(late, late, late)

gish, '89 demos, set the ray to jerry, cherry, obscured: classic i believe i speak for god album(s): dud everything else: i listened to it too much when i was 15

― Johan, Sunday, 25 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"Gish" was amazing. The drumming, the guitars, the voices. A psychedelic milestone. Should be listened to on headphones.
Next and last album I liked was "Mellon Collie". One of the best double albums. More mainstream than Gish and more song-orientated with some ballads but still very good.
All the rest they did is quite mediocre. Corgan's voice alone really turns me down nowadays. Though the song with New Order on the new album is great.

― alex in mainhattan, Monday, 26 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one year passes...

As is predictable by the whole "love it, hate it" option of "classic/dud", this seems to be a love it or hate it band. I think they were actually quite good, for an alternative rock band, all the way through The Aeroplane Flies High (collection of mellon collie b-sides that were actually pretty swell and stripped down) and that song on the lost highway collection. But the Batman song was cruddy. Adore I didn't buy or listen to at the time, but now that I hear it, I think some of the songwriting is fine, but hurt a bit by the production, which sort of robbed them of their strength, i.e. RAWK POWER. Still, if someone were to cover any of the songs, they'd be classics on par with the earlier material, maybe even better since they cut most of the "wanky guitar solos" that so many people on this board have problems with (honestly, what is this? 1977? I think Corgan's up there with Prince and Hendrix (and maybe that guy in Dinosaur Jr.) in that he can actually make a solo SAY something.)

So, continuuing with my theory, if one were to just sort of cut and re-record, you'd probably have about two good albums out of all the b-sides, machina 1 & 2, and adore stuff out there, post-melon collie. Which is what, eight albums (including a double album) total? In less than 8 years? Sounds classic to me.

Or I could just say I like 1979 and a few of their other songs to sound hip.

― sean patrick, Sunday, 2 February 2003 00:54 (twenty-three years ago)

Siamese Dream is my favorite album evah. Actually, I probably wouldn't have even bought it if it hadn't been for Ned's song reviews on AMG (of course, this was before I had ever heard of ILx, so I didn't know who he was).. so kudos to you Ned.

Gish and Pisces Iscariot are also grate, and MCIS and Adore have a few nice songs (might as well join in on the "1979" praise here). Haven't heard anything off of Machina but I have a feeling I don't want to ;)

― Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Completely had forgotten I had done those reviews! :-) Thanks!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:32 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm afraid I must object--Moby's remix is horribly dull. It's essentially just Billy's vocals over a repetitive electro beat (and he doesn't even go to any lengths to actually change the order of the verses). I'm a big fan of Moby's early work, but I can't stand to listen to this.

― Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Then again, your description sounds VERY different from the version I've heard; perhaps I mis-downloaded.

― Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:50 (twenty-three years ago)

I thought these guys would be a classic with me but when I reviewed Greatest Hits for the college radio station here I was shocked by how crappobloaty I found all their singles before "1979" (oh, and "Zero" sucks too). From that one through "The Everlasting Gaze" (I always wished it was called "The Everlasting Gays", like Billy was trying to scare homophobes or something) I dig all their singles. Only album I've got is Adore, which even that I have a hard time getting through all the way (damn songs just loop for eternity, don't they?).

Half-Classic/Half-Dud. And why wasn't "The End Is The Beginning Is The End" or whatever that Last-Pumpkins-Video-In-Pants Batman song was called on Greatest Hits?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 2 February 2003 23:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Putrid, impotent whinging... pretensiously overproduced post-glam. I believe they were Virgin's answer to the equally talentless Mother Love Bone.

― gygax!, Monday, 3 February 2003 00:49 (twenty-three years ago)

damn songs just loop for eternity, don't they?

And this is a bad thing? Excuse me, I have to listen to some Muslimgauze now.

And why wasn't "The End Is The Beginning Is The End" or whatever that Last-Pumpkins-Video-In-Pants Batman song was called on Greatest Hits?

I think everyone involved with that film removed it from their resume.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 February 2003 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Gish and Siamese Dream are pretty good. Mellon Colie has some moments. Adore gets no respect. The rest...not so good.

― Juan (Juan), Monday, 3 February 2003 01:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Adore is saved by "Appels + Oranjes," which is the most perfect synth-pop song EVAH

― Curtis Stephens, Monday, 3 February 2003 02:00 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...

TEITBITE omission is b/c of licensing out to Warner Bros. for the film - hence not owned by Virgin.

But the real reason I post here is merely to drop this bomb you can find posted at http://www.billycorgan.com/

You know that beatles song 'I'm so tired, I haven't slept a wink....'? I'm having one of those weeks...I just got 2 new kittens, brothers and sisters, named miss sami and mister thom cat...they are the best of friends, which is wonderful, but being young, they are into everything, including some things I didn't know you could get into...mister thom also seems to want to wake me up at 5am to say hello...well, the music for the rock and roll record is going really swell, just starting to get into a groove writing some songs...predominately focusing on melodies right now, leaving the words for a bit further down the road, which is unusual, but necessary...in the months to come, I am going to share some things with you that you have never heard me say...that doesn't mean I'm rewriting history, that means that I'm going to tell you the truth about who I am and what I believe in my heart...a lot of things that I have said thru the years seemed confusing, like I was hiding somethin!g, and often times I was...'why', you might ask? Many times I hid things to protect my band mates...for example, its been almost 4 years since I went on my friend tami's radio show and announced that the pumpkins were breaking up...that day, when she asked why we were breaking up, I said something silly like 'I'm tired of fighting britney blah blah'...and it went on to be widely quoted, as if I was breaking up my love, my band, because of some pop star...13 years of my life, and you know, let's pack it in cause their teeth are whiter...by saying that, I was seen as someone who was crying foul, taking his ball, and going home...which was sad cause it wans't true at all...The truth of the matter is is that james iha broke up the smashing pumpkins...not me, not jimmy, but james...did it help that d'arcy was fired for being a mean spirited drug addict, who refused to get help? No, that didn't help keep the band together, not at all...it made it very hard to go on, but we soldier! ed thru it even though our hearts were broken...But d'arcy didn't break up the band, we didn't let her...and jimmy didn't want to break up the band, not at that time...and I would have gone on forever...the smashing pumpkins were essentially my entire life...a dream I still believe in...many friends at that time suggested letting james leave, so jimmy and I could continue on under the name...but I was too loyal to the man I had started the whole thing with, and I protected him until the very end...right up until the last show on dec 2, 2000, when he thanked d'arcy on stage, but not the 2 men standing next to him...and I was loyal until he left the metro without even saying goodbye, or an 'its been great boys!', or a simple 'I love you' to us...no, james iha left the metro that night without saying goodbye to the 2 people he had won and lost and traveled the world with...so I won't be protecting him anymore...and I won't be protecting a whole lot of other people anymore...not because I don't love them (I do!!) but because ! I love myself too...I want to say one more thing, and that is I appreciate you reading this...+I want to remind you that I love you...God has given me the strength to say that to you, and I hope that you don't hide who you are...does it make me sad that I have hid myself all these years? No, it was what I had to do to survive, or at least what I 'thought' I needed to do...but surviving is not enough...we all deserve to flourish, and to know happiness and joy...that is my new dream...the smashing pumpkins gave me that, and I am eternally grateful...especially to those that shared in the dream with me...even if you bought just one cd, or came to a show, you gave us that chance...we thank you for that...even if we don't always know how to show it...be well!! William

Wow.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know, man -- I am a huge SP fan, but Corgan sounds like a raving lunatic in that post, and James Iha always seemed pretty normal when I would see him around NYC a few years ago (he was playing with Nathan Larson (ex-Shudder to Think) at places like Brownies).
I mean, fine, maybe the band broke up because Iha left, but maybe Iha had a perfectly legit reason to run for it!
That said, I vote classic on the Pumpkins.

― Ben Boyer (Ben Boyer), Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I likes 'em! They got some good stuff. Of course back in the mid-90s when music radio completely SUCKED ASS, it was either the Pumpkins or Candlebox, Offspring, or Bush.

So, best of a bad lot, then. Neither classic nor dud. Good.

Say! Anybody heard that one album they did where they leaked it onto the Internet for free simply to piss off their record company?

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Did Iha also break up Zwan?

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Considering he wasn't in Zwan, that might have been hard.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, but I'm interested to see if Billy will throw the blame his way all the same.

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, reading that over, maybe they were the Bob Mould and Grant Hart of the nineties altrockcracy.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay Pumpkin Experts, James Iha is in A Perfect Circle's touring line up and support when I saw them was the boring Auf Der Meyer.
Are they an item or what?

― mei (mei), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:40 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

Corgan in a non-stop bandmate blagging mission from God:

i did not feel that a cd release on a major label that i was out there trying to hawk with a bunch of immoral band mates (that does not include jimmy, by the way...he is one of best men i know) was a place to talk about the deepest of issues...no, the internet is!!!

In other news, he's now gone public with an email address. Guess who's gonna have 1000+ emails by Sunday?

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 27 March 2004 02:23 (twenty-two years ago)

That's referring to Zwan, btw.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 27 March 2004 02:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Slow motion apocalypse.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 27 March 2004 04:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I love the Pumpkins but I cannot stand to read Billy's blog. It just makes me upset.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 27 March 2004 04:14 (twenty-two years ago)

For our mutual entertainment, here's my version of a perfect,
1-disc _Melon Collie And The Infinite Sadness_. You may find
it rather bizarre, since I include a lot of "filler" that I
prefer to the full blown centerpieces:

01. Melon Collie And The Infinite Sadness
02. Tonight, Tonight
03. Jellybelly
04. Here Is No Why
05. Bullet With Butterfly Wings
06. Where Boys Fear To Tread
07. Thirty-Three
08. 1979
09. Thru The Eyes Of Ruby
10. We Only Come Out At Night
11. Beautiful
12. Lily
13. By Starlight
14. Farewell And Goodnight

Truth be told, I could live without "Tonight" and "Thirty-Three" -
I guess I included them out of some obligation to remain in the
realm of the remotely possible. Billy is rather proud of these
songs, I highly doubt he would have dispensed them.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Monday, 5 April 2004 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow thirty-three is one of my favorite pumpkins songs!

― ipsofacto (ipsofacto), Monday, 5 April 2004 00:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 1432 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

I love the pettiness of this headline

https://www.esquire.com/style/news/a44174/billy-corgan-infowars/

― laughter is the best weapon (DJP), Sunday, 4 August 2024 09:37 (one year ago)

I’m with you, Ned. I tried to give this a listen but I know too much 😤

― just1n3, Sunday, 4 August 2024 11:36 (one year ago)

I recently started listening to Bandsplain and the Pumpkins episode is really good.

― Cow_Art, Saturday, May 13, 2023 12:07 AM (one year ago)

Thanks, I listened to this and it was fun despite being a bit too long (over 6 hours across two episodes). The bit about Corgan comparing Thurston Moore to Paula Abdul was hilarious. I haven't been a long term Pumpkins fan but I find Corgan really likable despite so much.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 10 August 2024 18:25 (one year ago)

I lost track of Corgan and the Pumpkins after the Cubs' ill-fated 2003 season* and never bothered to get back on the train after the band was re-formed, but in memory I thought he was a likable guy. Given what's been posted here, it's probably best that I haven't kept up. I was never a huge Pumpkins fan, but I still have the second and third albums which were inescapable in the mid-'90s, especially as a kid growing up in Illinois - I have my reservations about them but still find them enjoyable.

*I didn't really know anything about the band until after they broke up. Besides their appearance on The Simpsons, all I remember about Corgan outside of the band's music is his fandom for the Cubs. I still remember the game where he was a guest in the broadcast booth with Steve Stone and Chip Carey, which feels more awkward in hindsight. And he led the sing-a-long during the 7th-inning stretch of Game 7 during the 2003 NLCS. (There's a clip of it on YouTube, but it cuts out his opening remarks where he tells everyone witnessing the Cubs' agonizing collapse that "we're fans no matter what happens" or something to that effect.) Based on that, I thought he was like Eddie Vedder, a solid hometown guy who happened to make it big in the rock world...

― birdistheword, Saturday, 10 August 2024 19:24 (one year ago)

"Goeth the Fall" is a great latter-day Pumpkins song! I even enjoy some of the 'rawk' songs that Billy thinks the fans crave.

I saw SP last month and despite everything it's just a pleasure to see Billy, James, and Jimmy seemingly on such good terms and enjoying being on stage together. I know nothing of James's politics, but he seems like a relaxed, funny dude, and God knows what it's been like being around Billy for the past 35+ years.

― Sam Weller, Friday, 16 August 2024 08:15 (one year ago)

i love this album as much as i hate myself for enjoying it at all

― ivy., Friday, 16 August 2024 18:01 (one year ago)

five months pass...

Billy Corgan and Bill Burr are half-brothers!

https://www.nme.com/news/music/smashing-pumpkins-billy-corgan-and-bill-burr-meet-to-see-if-really-half-brothers-3831021

― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Wednesday, 22 January 2025 22:38 (one year ago)

Well, the article doesn't go THAT far. But there is a bit of a Frank Sinatra/Ronan Farrow vibe here, yeah.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 22 January 2025 22:50 (one year ago)

I also saw a clip of them talking about it. There are definitely some doubters out there saying it's a bit, but the two both seemed fairly genuine.

― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Wednesday, 22 January 2025 23:07 (one year ago)

First few minutes are horribly awkward

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 22 January 2025 23:09 (one year ago)

Enjoying the new album, I haven't heard any of their stuff from the last two decades and I'm impressed by how much odder his voice has gotten.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 22 January 2025 23:10 (one year ago)

one month passes...

I gather our boy is on a certain podcast again. Not that I would listen. Billy don’t be a fascist.

― Sam Weller, Wednesday, 5 March 2025 07:20 (one year ago)

one month passes...

https://www.lyricopera.org/shows/upcoming/2025-26/a-night-of-mellon-collie-and-infinite-sadness/

Trying to decide if I wanna go or not. On one hand, Mellon collie was so important to me as a teen, so were the other 90s albums they made, and I’ve never seen them live. On the other, Corgan is such a fucking dick and his association with alex jones is unforgivable.

― just1n3, Sunday, 6 April 2025 03:44 (one year ago)

He’s still never walked back the Jones appearances IIRC so that’s reason enough to skip.

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 6 April 2025 05:19 (one year ago)

It’s also some orchestral thing and not the Pumpkins.

― assert (matttkkkk), Sunday, 6 April 2025 13:45 (one year ago)

I was so sure in "Edin" that he said "kingdoms turn to playdough", but none of the online lyrics say anything like that.

Enjoying his podcast series, really unpredictable guest choices, I don't own anything by any of them; never even heard of Dale Bozzio / Missing Persons but she was really entertaining and strange, seems like they're going to record something together.

Liked his Broken Record Podcast interview too, that thing about his encounters with fans in airports is bizarre. He said a Machina 1+2 omnibus release is coming soon.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 17 April 2025 02:59 (one year ago)

Xps yeah I realized that even my intense teenage nostalgia wasn’t strong enough to overcome my dislike of who he is as a person, and I just wouldn’t enjoy it.

― just1n3, Thursday, 17 April 2025 12:06 (one year ago)

I do think they will reform, they are like the modern Grateful Dead, they will still be playing in 2025.
― james e l, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

pre-9/11 poster james e l 75% otm

― Why did the Beatles shun the Space Needle? (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 17 April 2025 12:14 (one year ago)

six months pass...

MCIS chocolate bars

https://www.vosgeschocolate.com/collections/smashing-pumpkins-x-vosges-haut-chocolat-the-mellon-collie-sessions

― brimstead, Tuesday, 28 October 2025 00:19 (six months ago)

five months pass...

Quite enjoyed the stories coming out of the Courtney Love and Melissa Auf der Maur episodes (turns out Billy likes Thurston Moore fine and the beef is with Kim Gordon) and he talked about a guy from Material Issue (never heard of them) being the most talented guy in the scene he was from, and a bunch more now obscure bands.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 15 April 2026 15:51 (one month ago)

He quite often talks about being "hurt in the heart". Is this a saying where he's from or is this just his thing?

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 15 April 2026 16:37 (one month ago)

next episode is with David Draiman, apparently with Billy going full Rogan 'I will nod along dumbly never challenging anything'.... why why why does it have to become harder to be a pumpkins fan with every single year that goes past

― . (jamiesummerz), Wednesday, 15 April 2026 21:42 (one month ago)

Kim's making great solo records, Billy and Courtney are making podcasts.

― an uncharacteristically irritated Mr. Rogers (stevie), Thursday, 16 April 2026 07:24 (one month ago)

Billy's podcast seemingly exists solely to let everyone know that yes, he is still that douchebag from all those Lollapalooza stories.

― an uncharacteristically irritated Mr. Rogers (stevie), Thursday, 16 April 2026 07:25 (one month ago)

Still hurting deeply in his heart over Pavement in that episode

― PaulTMA, Thursday, 16 April 2026 07:55 (one month ago)

Truly the Morrissey of grunge

― an uncharacteristically irritated Mr. Rogers (stevie), Thursday, 16 April 2026 08:11 (one month ago)

Billy's podcast seemingly exists solely to let everyone know that yes, he is still that douchebag from all those Lollapalooza stories.

also that whenever he seems like a douchebag or particularly pretentious or anything, he's just playing the heel and poking fun at the ridiculousness of rock music

― ufo, Thursday, 16 April 2026 08:54 (one month ago)

he's nowhere near as bad as morrissey let's be real

― ufo, Thursday, 16 April 2026 08:54 (one month ago)

he's just desperate for people to love and understand his tender heart; which used to lead to wonderful music - now diminishing returns on the recorded front and too much billy in front of a camera saying words from his brain :-(

saying that, the london outdoor show i caught in the summer was the best time i've seen them (saying that, never got to see em in prime years)... setlist not even ruined by his usual choice of covers:

Glass' Theme
Heavy Metal Machine
Pentagrams
Today
Bullet With Butterfly Wings
Muzzle
1979
Porcelina of the Vast Oceans
Sighommi
Mayonaise
Take My Breath Away (Berlin cover)
Edin
Disarm
Tonight, Tonight
Cherub Rock
Jellybelly
Bodies
Ava Adore
Zero
The Everlasting Gaze (with a snippet of Black Sabbath's "N.I.B.")

― . (jamiesummerz), Thursday, 16 April 2026 09:54 (one month ago)

he's nowhere near as bad as morrissey let's be real

this is fair

― an uncharacteristically irritated Mr. Rogers (stevie), Thursday, 16 April 2026 10:25 (one month ago)

it's like, he probably could have gotten that bad but has very clearly decided not to and is just sort of a clown instead

― ufo, Thursday, 16 April 2026 10:43 (one month ago)

The first SP gig I ever saw, on the Siamese tour, he came on for the encore dressed as a clown (because the UK rock critic Everett True had called him a clown in an interview) and teased his best song, 'Drown', before refusing to play it because we "didn't deserve it". They were so rubbish that night, which maybe because it was Brixton and the sound isn't great upstairs, but the vibes were off.

― an uncharacteristically irritated Mr. Rogers (stevie), Thursday, 16 April 2026 10:55 (one month ago)

see that's the sort of thing where i can believe him when he says he's deliberately playing the heel lmao

― ufo, Thursday, 16 April 2026 10:56 (one month ago)

I do get that but I didn't pay £13 in 1993 money to see him play the heel!

Pumpkins were great at the Palladium on the Machina tour - and tbh the Zwan show I saw in Chicago for the album release was just brilliant, an absolutely epic Mary, Star Of the Seas was the highlight. I like that album a lot more than any Pumpkins post-Siamese, if I'm honest. Billy writes great pop songs and heavy rock songs and I just think he's a very poor philosopher/provocateur.

― an uncharacteristically irritated Mr. Rogers (stevie), Thursday, 16 April 2026 11:00 (one month ago)

oh yeah just because he's doing it on purpose doesn't mean it works out at all for him. like it is sort of entertaining in its own way but only from a distance, it doesn't work the same as wrestling!!!

mary star of the sea remains underrated and is at least a top 4 corgan album

― ufo, Thursday, 16 April 2026 11:05 (one month ago)

when is he going to clear out the zwan vaults. we got the machina boxset at last and it was completely ridiculous and barely revelatory at all, so zwan has to be next right?

― ufo, Thursday, 16 April 2026 11:09 (one month ago)

when is he going to clear out the zwan vaults.

I'm imagining when he gets over what an absolute clusterfuck that experience was for everyone involved. I get the impression it all got verrrrrrrrrry messy.

― an uncharacteristically irritated Mr. Rogers (stevie), Thursday, 16 April 2026 11:15 (one month ago)

apparently he has been talking about digging through the zwan vaults (which are a complete mess) in recent months with the idea of putting out a reissue & a bunch of archival releases so i hope that won't take over a decade like machina did

― ufo, Thursday, 16 April 2026 11:57 (one month ago)

I just think he's a very poor philosopher/provocateur

he's not a good wrestling promoter either

― ivy., Thursday, 16 April 2026 12:01 (one month ago)

Kim's making great solo records, Billy and Courtney are making podcasts.
― an uncharacteristically irritated Mr. Rogers (stevie), Thursday, April 16, 2026 3:24 AM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

making great records doesn't exclude you from being an asshole

― My homies buttthole surfers' record sounds like a f (Western® with Bacon Flavor), Thursday, 16 April 2026 12:57 (one month ago)

yeah, but at least you're an asshole who's making great records

― an uncharacteristically irritated Mr. Rogers (stevie), Thursday, 16 April 2026 13:11 (one month ago)

Also, I really don't think Kim's an asshole. She's super-shy. I think a lot of people interpret that as assholeness, but.

― an uncharacteristically irritated Mr. Rogers (stevie), Thursday, 16 April 2026 13:12 (one month ago)

I think they were characterizing her as being the worst type of gatekeeper and being controlling or something like that?

I think Aghori Mhori Mei is great, "War Dreams of Itself" in particular is a lot of fun. I listened to Atum once and I'm dragging my heels about getting back to it.

The only thing I know about Draiman was the poll about him speaking in cliches, so I'm skipping that one. I'm assuming Disturbed is nu-metal.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 16 April 2026 18:16 (one month ago)

I can imagine Kim being shy and that appearing aloof.

I can also imagine Kim not having any time for William’s drama nonsense.

― Cow_Art, Thursday, 16 April 2026 19:03 (one month ago)

In someone's photo collection, there's got to be at least one photo of Billy dressed as a clown at Brixton, sonewhere

― PaulTMA, Thursday, 16 April 2026 23:56 (one month ago)

Shaking hands with Rosalynn Carter

― Sam Weller, Friday, 17 April 2026 10:18 (one month ago)

I think Aghori Mhori Mei is great, "War Dreams of Itself" in particular is a lot of fun. I listened to Atum once and I'm dragging my heels about getting back to it.

"Goeth the Fall" is great!

There's a lot of Billy content these days. It was easier to take him in the 90s when his pomposity was limited to 60-second bursts on MTV or the radio. Even his early 2000s blog was interesting. But I can't really stand listening to 60-minute podcasts with him.

― Sam Weller, Friday, 17 April 2026 10:24 (one month ago)

I've listened to about a quarter of them. Aside from the horrible Alex Jones appearances and occasional conspiracy theory stuff, I don't get why people hate him so much. He interrupts his guests a fair amount (Linda Blair seemed a bit annoyed by this) but it seems like he genuinely has a wishlist of questions he wants to ask all these people.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 17 April 2026 14:12 (one month ago)

Kevin Cronin interview was a great listen. Don’t give af about Reo S., but listening to clearheaded stories about rock in the 70s was great

― Elvis Telecom, Friday, 17 April 2026 21:07 (one month ago)

lmao at billy trying to create 'mutual understanding' between the disturbed singer (who is incredibly pro-israel) and roger waters over the iran war, only to create a feud where none previously existed (mostly because waters was previously unaware of disturbed)

― ufo, Friday, 17 April 2026 21:28 (one month ago)

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