It's Not The Band I Hate It's Their Fans...

If you blame a band for the behavior of their fans, then you are an idiot. Sorry, but it's how I feel. Certainly you can go on and on forever ranting against the cult of a band, but how does that affect the kind of music they put out? They aren't responsible for their fans being gits any more than Marilyn Manson is responsible for kids killing each other.

So, basically: blaming a band for its fans: dud. Having a go against the fans: sometimes classic, sometimes dud. Classic if directed purely against the fans. Dud if that becomes your method of actually reviewing the band's music.

Bands sometimes get the fans they deserve. Think Limp Bizkit and Insane Clown Posse.

I'd doubt, though, that Limp Bizkit and ICP are disappointed with the make up of their fan base.

ICP probably wish their fans put a little more craftsmanship into their clown makeup.

That makes 'em (the bands) all the more despicable.

ALL bands get the fans they deserve, whether that's no fans or psycho fans. But that still has fuck all to do with their music, you know?

As Grim Kim pointed out in another thread, the subject line is also a quote from a Sloan song, referencing Consolidated. How do I feel about it? I think Patrick may be right about bands getting the fans that they deserve, and Sloan may be an excellent case in point. I've gotten totally tired of Sloan because they've ceased to try anything new and are instead rehashing 70s sounds ala Kravitz, except quoting the much more despicable April Wine. For the most part, it means Sloan now has a fanbase consisting of kids too young to appreciate the fact that they're ripping off the seventies (or paying tribute, if you prefer, but I'm not feeling so kind) wholesale. Hate is always rather a strong word for it, though: I don't hate Sloan or their fans. Can someone name a band that has a dubious fanbase, but who didn't do something dubious themselves to get that fanbase?

Sure. Joy Division's fan base is to blame for goth, and I don't think it's Ian Curtis' fault - he seemed sincere enough.

You think? I would actually have blamed the Damned and/or Siouxsie and the Banshees for gothy fans, but there you go.

Oh yeah, Siouxsie, you're right. I have no problem with blaming her. She definitely had the shtick down. I think the Damned only developed goth tendancies later on, though.

Dave Vanian wore whiteface and dressed vampire-wise from day one. Obviously it wasn't called "goth" yet, tho, and they weren't yet hurrying to tag onto something-anything to keep their audience sizeable after tru-punk totalitarians (like me! but actually more like Julie Burchill!!) declared them anathema.

Fuck with Sioux, mind, and I'll kill you.

Ian Curtis invented goth: he WISHES!!

Kind of off topic but, re: Sloan. I dunno Sean, I actually *was* getting just as annoyed with their revivalism as you are, but then it just suddenly struck me as highly entertaining - this wall of big rock cliche coming from a group of guys *very* inept in the studly posturing dept. I think they know it too. I kind of saw the sound change for them as it as a deliberate ploy to throw off annoying fans just latching on to the scene, not the songwriting. That said, I actually haven't heard much from their latest, except Losing California, which does pretty much suck. :)

the worst thing is when an artist has shit fans and then makes moves to be accepted by said shit fans. see: jungle brothers with techno idiots, cypress hill and pharcyde with dumbass stoner rock types, del and keith with indie dorks, and for the love of god, run dmc's entire career.

Maybe this is a show thing or something, because I'm never in a position to have bands' fans affect my life at all. I just don't see how it could happen. What actions of Belle & Sebastian fans made you dislike the band?

Of course Ethan himself is above all that.

damn right. i don't do shit for my fans.

If you hate SUV driving rich and preppy suburban white teenagers then you only have to search for two words: Dave Matthews

If you blame a band for the behavior of their fans, then you are an idiot. Sorry, but it's how I feel. Certainly you can go on and on forever ranting against the cult of a band, but how does that affect the kind of music they put out?

Thing is, Ally, without resorting to questioning your intelligence, it *does* affect your interpretation of the music a band puts out.

Enjoyment of music consists of so much more than simply the music itself- part of what makes music such an engaging and powerful medium is its ability to engage your emotions, trigger associations. All art is as much about the viewer/listener's interpretations as the artists's vision.

This works both ways- there are songs that I love because I associate them with people or places that I love, or times in my life that were happy.

However, if a certain piece of music is continually associated with people or places or organisations you dislike, it can and does become negatively emotionally charged, and develops unpleasant associations. Music you formerly loved can trigger bad memories and unpleasant assocations, and that brings you to dislike the music itself.

Is this the fault of the person who wrote the music? Not necessarily. But, as you say, bands get the fans they deserve. However, I do think it's not only fair but logical to blame bands for having the qualities which seem to *attract* fans I dislike.

Re: Sloan - their last album was patchy, yet I still believe that Jay Ferguson is a brilliant songwriter. The 70s infatuation is just another phase of cultural tourism that has taken in everything from early 90s shoegrunge to 60s Beatlepop. I think they're good songwriters who enjoy writing songs "in the style of" genres, rather than being total 70s copyists.

Try speaking for yourself only in the future and try not to resort to telling me what does and does not affect my perception of a band. If I let the mythos of a band and the actions of their fans mess up whether or not the music is good, then quite frankly I wouldn't be a fan of the Manic Street Preachers.

I feel only pity for those who would dislike a band because tossers also like the band, because quite frankly you'd quickly run out of things to like.

Gee, actually, Ally, fans like you are not the reason I dislike the Manic Street Screachers (though gosh, it's tempting). The reason I dislike them is because, IMHO, their music consists of nothing but irredeemablely overblown, pretentious, poorly reconstructed glam-goth screachings so dire that even their principle songwriter offed himself so he wouldn't have to listen to it any more. Meow.

Kate, I heard a rumour your boyfriend owns everything Belle & Sebastian have ever released on every single format - is this true?!

Ooh, allegations like that shouldn't be hurled against someone so lightly. ;-)