TS: Lou Reed vs. Alex Chilton

...not sure which way ILM will swing on this....

Alex Chilton in Big Star, Lou Reed solo.

Add David Bowie, and you may have armageddon. My vote: none of the above.

love the Velvets more than Big Star but this is Alex all the way

I might start a WL/WH vs. Sister Lovers poll...

chilton.

wait this isnt a poll?

(kudos to you, m0stlyClean)

chilton

Alex Chilton for sure

Actually kind of a tough call, 'cause I don't like much by either one. From Reed's side, I really only like Metal Machine Music and the two 1975 live albums (Lou Reed Live and Rock 'n' Roll Animal) and a couple of songs each off Blue Mask and Legendary Hearts. I went through my "pretending to like the Velvet Underground" phase in high school, but their stuff never took hold for me. And w/r/t Chilton, I like a few songs each off the first two Big Star records, but have never heard any of his solo stuff. I know he played on some Tav Falco albums, but what he did there could have been done by anybody. Same with his production job on the early Cramps stuff - the Cramps had enough force of personality that all that was required was for someone to press "record."

whoever did the most smack wins

what he did there could have been done by anybody. Same with his production job on the early Cramps stuff

I don't think this is true at all fwiw

tough choice, will have to think about it

Chilton, for me. At least, this year, anyway.

I like VU much more than Big Star, and only occasionally care for either of their solo stuff despite periodic immersions in both. So Reed, but only for that short burst and Take No Prisoners.

There's just something about Lou's spoken-word vocals and his world-weary pose that just grates...Lou is definitely a big part of why the first two VU albums are two of the best albums ever, but at the same time, I gravitate towards almost every other element (Mo's drumming, Cale's viola, Nico's viking-Patsy-Cline voice) He's an intelligent songwriter, a great rhythm guitarist, & occasionaly an incendiary lead, but Alex is pretty much the undisputed bright spot of Big Star, and though from what I've heard, most of his solo career would be considered 'egregious', still when asked my gut says go with Chilton...

Alex just has a better voice, I'd rather listen to him.

I dig Radio City but Reed easily

70s Lou Reed is fascinating. I choose Lou.

they're both alternately fascinating and frustrating characters - a lot of parallels, including having an initial burst of early creativity/talent that later appears to be squandered/repudiated in their solo careers

also both started out in the trenches of pop songwriter machinery, which they subsequently rebelled against

I went through my "pretending to like the Velvet Underground" phase in high school, but their stuff never took hold for me.

What on earth was the point of pretending to like the VU? Is there a school somewhere were all the cool kids listen to the VU? All the cool kids in my school listened to, you know, Motley Crue and AC/DC.

70s Lou Reed is fascinating. I choose Lou.

^^ This.

Alex easy! A-hole pervert weirdo to the end. Lou is just a douche.

Alex is an a-hole pervert weirdo?

pretty sure Lou meets anyone's criteria for a-hole, pervert, and weirdo

I'm kind of inclined to go with Lou just cuz he was more productive - on balance their best work is on par with one another imho, but Alex is really kinda lazy in terms of putting stuff out, whereas Lou was cranking out an album a year for like 20 years. sure a bunch of those albums are a mess, but more often than not they are fascinating messes. Alex's stuff barely got released and there were huge gaps in his productivity, like he didn't really give a shit if he made any records or not. And in general I give points for dedication to one's craft, to those guys who just continue to WORK no matter what.

Take No Prisoners vs Having Fun With Alex Chilton Onstage (the one that got away)

Having Fun With Alex Chilton Onstage (the one that got away)

don't think I've ever heard this - when is it from?

Take No Prisoners is one of my favorite Lou moments, no doubt

chris bell

I might pick Lou once I hear more of his solo stuff...I think I've only heard New York...

Not one of his better albums

i've kind of given up on lou reed solo albums, too much filler. still, when he's good he's great.

have no affection for reed, and love chilton, especially his solo stuff

I'm a Chilton fan, and after his death I listened to a lot of live recordings and other unofficial stuff. You know, he was good at what he did, but he really did waste his talent in so many ways. Some of the live stuff that has been floating around is quite good, but that's it? A Man Called Destruction is the only record of his post-1984 that has any production values at all, which doesn't mean I don't like "No Sex" and other rough takes from that era. Loose Shoes and Tight Pussy is lousy except for his Brenton Wood cover. So it's a waste. The difference is between an artist who bought into the elevated world of legit "art"--that's Lou Reed--and someone who was mainly interested in the deployment of a certain kind of taste, and whose populist not to say leftist sympathies found expression in mid-century r&b tunes done with a certain offhand grace and a nice touch on rhythm guitar. But that's really it for Chilton as someone who said anything most people could relate to, most people not being me and a big fan of mid-century r&b and soul. Reed at least had a subject, and a budget.

But for raw talent and musicality--and musical inquisitiveness--Chilton was way ahead of Lou Reed. Most rock 'n' roll musicians have zero ability to refine what they do and to learn about the basic building blocks of music itself, and one imagines Alex smoking weed and trying to figure out the ineffables of Roger and the Gypsies' "Pass the Hatchet" or some Ernie K-Doe piano part he tried to get right on guitar, or baroque music. Whereas Reed was in the tradition of big-time beat poet shit, you gotta like his voice to begin with, he could barely sing anyway. But Reed wrote many more good songs than Alex ever did. Both artistes illustrate the folly of believing in rock 'n' roll your whole life, even after the necessary personae have faded away and you're left with just your guitar and the memory of your younger and wilder days. I think Alex probably understood the mindlessness of pop and rock in such a fundamental way that it rendered all effort somewhat superfluous, and I have no problem with that at all. Reed wins as an artist, but I just like Alex better and think he was the better overall musician.

I might pick Lou once I hear more of his solo stuff...I think I've only heard New York...

Coney Island Baby is the real diamond

great post ebb, btw

Don't forget The Bells and Street Hassle and Take No Prisoners. Take no Prisoners doubles as a stand up comedy album.

dunno, the "wasting his talent" thing sort of rankles in re: to chilton. i mean, he obviously could've had a more active career as a cult-type musician, could've tried to write more songs, but it's obvious he didn't feel the muse. but he loved music in his own peculiar way, and tried to put some of that love across in his later days. not saying he was always successful, or anything.

ebb OTM

remembering seeing LX playing 'I Ribello' by Adriano Celentino a few years back - can you imagine Lou having the taste, or the wit, or the patience to learn the Italian, in order to pay affectionate tribute to a sweet piece of bubblegum?

Yeah, maybe I should say Chilton didn't use his talent enough, instead of wasted it...he had such a great guitar sound, yet he he could've put it to even more nefarious use than he did, sorta this idea I have of how r&b could (can) be avant-garde or at least harmonically and texturally acerbic in the right hands. But there never was any Bill Laswell to get Alex to lay down something that might've been a bit beyond what Alex would've thought of. Perhaps that is asking too much. Lou probably stretched more. What's the use of trying to upgrade what I believe Chilton thought was a precarious art form that depends on unthinking, esp. in light of what he had achieved on the third Big Star album? Had some smart person gotten Chilton on board with doing something a bit more ambitious...but ambition pales beside the joys of hanging out in New Orleans and appearing uncredited as part of Brenton Wood's backing band at Jazzfest, that was Alex's idea of nirvana.

ebbjunior posts on this thread pure genius, wish he would still post more widely and venture outside his self-imposed exile on the Rolling Annual Country Thread.