Pavement or Big Star?

I found this on the internets (@limedbagels.blogspot):

3. "We Dance" is one of those songs that can wrack you with emotion one minute and leave you in fits of laughter the next. The way Malkmus delivers 'pick up some Brazilian nuts' is hilarious, sounding like something a stoner lazily murmurs to his dog. But when the drums fall out later in the song, leaving S.M. alone with a simple and surprisingly heartfelt suggestion, it feels like it could have come from any Big Star record (a band which aren't as good as Pavement, I'd argue). It contains its power in the way it comes out of left field after the 'Brazilian nuts' bit, not to mention the flowing water effects and brief scat singing.

Was Pavement a better band than Big Star? NO POLL

related: Otherwise Cool Bands Ruined By Their Irritating Fans

September Gurls vs. Summer Babe fite

for me personally, September Gurls by miles

'we dance' reminds me of the kinks more than big star

if you are interested in reading the rest of the (good) piece on Wowee Zowee, click

The comparison intrigued me because I guess I'm not used to comparing such a stridently 'indie rock' band with an older sacred cow. I'm not sure which side I take, yet,

big star v replacements v pavement. replacements win.

I could probably listen to more Pavement, but they never put their souls on the line like Big Star frequently did.

how are we to know?

trick question -- s.m. has no soul

Very comparable for me: 1) I'm not as big on either one of them as most people are, but 2) both have two or three songs that I absolutely love ("Perfume V"/"Cut Your Hair," "September Gurls"/"Thirteen"/"The India Song").

FWIW, "We Dance" was compared to The Frogs back in the day.

It is interesting that both bands put out their best work on #3, following a #2 that did better than #1, though lower in quality. Summer Babe vs. Feel as an artistic statement vs. September Gurls vs. Cut Your Hair.

I would kinda like to hear a SM album after he cracks up and starts washing dishes for a living, but not sure that's ever going to happen.

Always felt the opening chromatic riff of Crooked Rain ("Silence Kid") was an obvious homage to the opening of #1 Record ("Feel").

It is awfully Big Star, now that you mention it...

God help us all when they finally use "Range Life" as the theme song for "That 90s Show".

FWIW, "We Dance" was compared to The Frogs back in the day.

It was also compared to "Stroke it Noel" in the first review I read upon its release (in Spin, probably), which the blogger quoted in the initial post seems to remember too.

I don't hear that but I def get a Hunky Dory era Bowie thing goin ahn.

Here's the Frogs thing:

http://books.google.com/books?id=bkSKIhZnTyEC&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=pavement+the+frogs+we+dance&source=bl&ots=j37U2xqxCc&sig=qXi91fdGV-GHe9WEcB53L4Qs0lI&hl=en&ei=ReLaTPSiEsK78gbt1oWGCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=pavement%20the%20frogs%20we%20dance&f=false

Ah, side by side w/the Big Star thing. I must have blocked that out.

There's another review from the time citing Frogs, but damned if I can remember where it came from....

I don't think I even know anyone who likes Pavement anymore, really, aside frm a couple 90s fetishists

father to a sister of a thought sounds vaguely big star-ish....

it's apples and oranges, and completely different eras. how can you compare two bands like that or determine which is 'better'?

I don't think I even know anyone who likes Pavement anymore, really, aside frm a couple 90s fetishists
thanks to the reunion aren't they bigger than ever?

This is a much more apt comparison than BS/VU, and harder to choose.

"I don't think I even know anyone who likes Pavement anymore"

you know me! i'm scott!

you 90s fetishist!

this comparison is funny - it works on kind of a formal level in terms of both bands being more than willing to disguise pop smarts with willfully slapdash musicianship but in a funny way the effects produced are completely different, especially lyrically. Pavement's stuff is so emotionally distant and opaque, whereas most of Big Star's material conveys the impression of being painfully confessional and heartfelt.

it's true, i'm all about the 90's. got my buffalo tom tickets yesterday! geezer lake are opening!

You know, what Big Star needed was some guy in the background, banging on some bongoes and screaming the SUCH A DRAG part of "You Get What You Deserve".

saw a sad st. johnny cd at the thrift store this morning. i shed a tear and pored out some crazy horse malt liquor.

man if your pores are leaking malt liquor maybe you should cut down a little dawg

that's what i get for posting whilst eating a sandwich. mmmm, sandwich....

Shakey otm - Pavement are great in so many ways, but those ways don't include lyrical depth or emotional weight. If you riff on lots of random topics that fit your song's metre, you're going to hit on something that evokes an associative emotional response in the listener, but that's not exactly proof of your mastery of songwriting.

agreed that shakey makes a good point, and i also completely understand that chilton may have had a harder life than anyone in pavement, but both bands seem to be pretty 100% reppin themselves, be they aloof brats or wrecky emo messes -- dont think there's a reticence on pavement's part to "be real" or whatever.

i like pavement a little better, but i consider it a personal choice, not a response to any objective mandate or whatever. and "we dance" is in my top five pavement songs!

those ways don't include lyrical depth or emotional weight

sez you!

Witty lyrics are "deep" and "emotional."

If you riff on lots of random topics that fit your song's metre, you're going to hit on something that evokes an associative emotional response in the listener, but that's not exactly proof of your mastery of songwriting.

If you go into the studio as fucked up as Chilton was, you're going to hit on something that coheres into memorable performances, but that's not exactly proof of your mastery of songwriting.

I love them both, for very different reasons, but, no offense, I don't get your reasons at at all. Most studio adventures are serendipitous, and, more importantly, editing at the microphone or mixing board are just as valid indicators of "mastery."

i mean, alex chilton wrote some really fucking awesome songs about some really really deeply painful shit (and also some lighter fare). let's give em BOTH credit here.

I guess the one Big Star album sounding the most like Pavement is "Third" and I prefer Pavement then. But "#1 Album" is still so much better.