Underground

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Does the idea of an 'underground' make sense? Now, if it ever did?

Every now and then I see any number of musicians I like referred to as 'underground sensations' or as having (which I think is similar) only 'cult appeal'. But I don't feel especially underground for it. I didn't have to do much digging, and I can generally get any of the CDs I'm thinking of in any typical small record store. Does 'underground' mean anything else besides 'small audience'?

― Josh (Josh), Sunday, 18 August 2002 16:19 (twenty-three years ago)

It could be that 'underground' music usually comes out of some kind of (local or regional, probably) actual physical scene that I'm just never a part of, and I'm always leeching off the underground-building work that they're doing. I doubt this, though.

'Underground' seems to me to require something more like W.A.S.T.E. muted post horns scattered around the country in unobtrusive places.

― Josh (Josh), Sunday, 18 August 2002 16:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Underground= a dark & mysterious pastlife alluded to with awe by Spin RS and Q, where poor people with bad complexions wear a finite number of outfits and quite possibly ride unicorns.

― The Actual Mr. Jones (actual), Sunday, 18 August 2002 17:48 (twenty-three years ago)

'underground' = critical shorthand for 'not signed to a major or major-minor label"

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 18 August 2002 17:49 (twenty-three years ago)

i am sub-underground.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 18 August 2002 17:53 (twenty-three years ago)

An "underground" would be a small number of people sharing a (not very accessible) musical vision, as well as some sort of ideology or background, which is ignored by the larger labels and the media. The music is sold through small one-man distros, often connected to similarly set-up labels. Information is shared through (xeroxed) zines. An underground can be local or worldwide, in which case means small tours visiting the local scenes, tapetrading, paper correspondence in the pre-internet days, etc.

In the extreme metal scene, which I've been involved in quite a lot over the past fifteen years, I still notice lots of "underground hypes" (in the past few years, for example Urgehal, Taake, Mutiilation, Absurd) which are not generally available outside of that "underground" of distros.

― Siegbran Hetteson (eofor), Sunday, 18 August 2002 18:10 (twenty-three years ago)

We'll be dressed in all black, slamming the pit fantastic, Officer Friendly's little boy's got a mohawk, he knows just where we're coming from.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 18 August 2002 18:48 (twenty-three years ago)

The use of the term underground is always relative to context. Spin could call an artist underground, and that artist could be on the cover of URB. As for feeling especially underground, maybe the more music you are aware of, the less underground you feel.

― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Monday, 19 August 2002 00:57 (twenty-three years ago)

is it possible for a band to be underground in something like siegbran's sense once word of them reaches the interweb?

― Josh (Josh), Monday, 19 August 2002 02:41 (twenty-three years ago)

The thing that makes something "underground" is barriers, right? Something to separate the thing from what's happening above ground, the mainstream. The internet is eliminating many of these, but I think the final one is language. I run into music I simply can't learn anything about because all the online information is in Japanese, French. Something seems underground to me when I can't get any informtaion, though in the home country it surely seems otherwise.

― Mark (MarkR), Monday, 19 August 2002 02:53 (twenty-three years ago)

exactly what I had in mind, mark.

also see here

― Josh (Josh), Monday, 19 August 2002 03:05 (twenty-three years ago)

The internet has changed it a lot, yes. Don't know if it really destroys the notion of "underground" completely. Through the internet it's easier to sample from it, but the IRL part of such an "underground" is more important to the experience.
Internet has been quite helpful for me personally - distros put their demo/cd lists online, it's easier to check references for that Colombian or Lithuanian trader who contacts you, you don't have to wait three weeks for a response to get in, etc. But I can't really say if it *really* takes away the magic - it's different but I doubt that the feelings of someone getting into it today are much different from what I felt at the time. It's certainly more difficult to maintain that intrigueing mysterious/obscure profile though.
The language barrier is indeed real - all the Japanese bands I've heard are great, but I never really got a good view of the entire scene there, or for example the Singaporean/Malaysian scenes.

― Siegbran Hetteson (eofor), Monday, 19 August 2002 19:57 (twenty-three years ago)

underground = people who perform covered in fresh dirt

Rob Zombie DO YOU SEE?!?

― Dave M. (rotten03), Monday, 19 August 2002 20:38 (twenty-three years ago)

six years pass...

simon reynolds...

http://blissout.blogspot.com/2008/10/two-weeks-from-today-ill-be-in-london.html

The title is Is The Underground Over? - Considering Alternatives to 'Alternative'; the subject is the obsolescence of the concept of subculture/alternative/marginal versus the surprisingly persistent and vibrant praxis of same in the form of a diverse array of music undergrounds including free folk, noise, extreme metal, the usual Nuum suspects et al; how the web has changed things; the history and evolution of the idea of "underground" in popular culture from the 1960s onwards, and much, much more.

The panelists are Cosey Fanni Tutti (Throbbing Gristle), Penny Martin (Rootstein Hopkins Chair of Fashion Imagery at the London College of Fashion) and Claire Titley (from London-based independent live music promoter/record label Upset the Rhythm).

Location: the Auditorium at the Frieze Art Fair (South East corner of Regent's Park, near Regent's Park tube station).

Time/date: 12 PM noon Sunday 19th October.

Tickets: entrance to talks is included in daily Fair admission, but tickets for individual talks can also be bought on the day from 11-AM onwards.

― djmartian, Wednesday, 8 October 2008 11:34 (seventeen years ago)

damn that looks ace! pesky mate's wedding getting in the way...

― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 8 October 2008 11:40 (seventeen years ago)

surely the wedding will be more fun?

― Annoying Display Name (blueski), Wednesday, 8 October 2008 12:15 (seventeen years ago)

eleven years pass...

artefact from when the underground was still young and doxxing was good not bad apparently (1968)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdrtHg5WsAEjavx?format=jpg

from LA Underground Mag OTHER SCENES: radical scenesters listed include some BEATLES, zappa-chronicler and rush-besmircher MILES, fake revolutionary, gangster-grifter and future murderer MICHAEL X (as michael abdul malik), NOT-YET-WHISPERIN BOB HARRIS (in his role as dep ed of early-days time out, the old grey whistle test was years away) and er DENIS NORDEN

― mark s, Friday, 24 July 2020 14:05 (five years ago)

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