Girls To The Front: The True Story of the Riot Grrrl Revolution

Halfway through this and very frustrated at the many omissions. How can you talk about DC punk without mentioning Pussy Galore, even as a footnote? I know they weren't involved in riot grrrl, but that's all the more reason to discuss them!

Nothing on Team Dresch (perhaps the most sinful omission of all), Raoul, Skinned Teen, The Frumpies...also, no mention of the riot grrrl episode of Roseanne??

Maybe this'll pick up in the second half, but so far, disappointed. Anyone else reading this?

I know they weren't involved in riot grrrl, but that's all the more reason to discuss them!

Haven't read this yet, but this sentence makes no sense to me, considering its a book about riot grrrl!

Nothing on Team Dresch? Weird. My sis busted out _Personal Best_ last night at her birthday and we were the only two people excited about it!

xp There's a lot of detail about the male-centric DC punk scene - Nation of Ulysses Ian MacKaye etc - and not a word about PG.

I love Team Dresch!

Didn't PG decamp for NYC really early on? I know they started in DC but I think of them as a New York band.

It's on my Christmas list. From the reviews I've read though (I know I know) it doesn't seem to be written to be comprehensive per se

No Team Dresch? Has to be one of the top 3 most name-checked/still known riot grrrl bands ever? I'm not a particular fan of riot grrrl but Team Dresch is epic.

weird about team dresch, 'personal best' probably means more to me than any other riot grrl album

i saw the author read excerpts from this at skylight books two months ago. her tobi vail impersonation was pretty good!

Does anyone else keep reading the thread title to the tune of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk66pOThh2o

i liked how their were riot girl chapters that had meetings, v girl, not so much riot

just went looking for the vegemite grrrl post you were responding to.

lol Joe

Pretty psyched to read this. Wouldn't really expect it to talk about Pussy Galore though.

Also . . .

This might have been posted on another related thread but here is as good a place as any.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWO4JnP2T40

No Team Dresch, no cred, period.

Here's an ILM thread I started years ago Riot Grrl -- OPO

OTM

obv as a band their impact was huge, but when you add in donna dresch running chainsaw, putting out the first sleater-kinney albums, hosting the chainsaw message board, etc, that's a pretty big miss!

chainsaw discography:

CHSW 1 1988 fanzine
CHSW 2 1989 fanzine
CHSW 3 1991 fanzine
CHSW 3 1992 mini fanzine
CHSW 4 compilation cassette
CHSW 5 unreleased split fanzine with Jigsaw
CHSW 6 The Frumpies “babies and bunnies” 7″
CHSW 7 Heartless Martin Cassette
CHSW 8 The Fakes “real fiction” CD / LP
CHSW 9 Excuse Seventeen s/t CD
CHSW 10 Heavens to Betsy “direction” 7″
CHSW 11 Team Dresch “personal best” LP/CS/CD
CHSW 12 Sleater-Kinney s/t CD
CHSW 13 Sleater-Kinney “call the doctor” CD / LP
CHSW 14 Kaia s/t LP/CD/ CS
CHSW 15 The third Sex “card carryin” CD
CHSW 16 unreleased sampler with candyass
CHSW 17 Longstocking “once upon a time called now” CD
CHSW 18 Team Dresch “captain my captain” LP/CD/CS
CHSW 19 The Need s/t CD
CHSW 20 The Need “the need is dead” CD
CHSW 21 The Third Sex “back to go” CD
CHSW 22 No. 2 “no memory” CD
CHSW 23 Tracy + the Plastics “musclers guide to videonics” CD
CHSW 24 Ladyfest 2000 compilation cd (unreleased)
CHSW 25 Infinite Xs CD
CHSW 26 Tracy + the Plastics “forever sucks” EPCD
CHSW 27 TBA
CHSW 28 SHOW ME THE PINK velocipedomania CD

CHSW 24 Ladyfest 2000 compilation cd (unreleased)

^ coulda sworn donna sent me a copy of this

luv that kathleen hanna youtube

So is like ending every sentence with a lilt? So that it sounds like a question? Is that a Pacific Northwest thing?

uptalking is a national young lady problem, hanna is actually a little old for that demo

there was a riot grrrl episode of rosaenne? worth watching?

uptalking is a national young lady problem, hanna is actually a little old for that demo

― ice cr?m, Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:21 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yeah otm. I had to sort of force myself out of this habit and sometimes worry that I still do it.

I love that vid too.

I've also never seen the rg ep of Roseanne and am intrigued.

I can't understand why anyone would think a book about riot grrrls would have anything to do with Pussy Galore.

hasnt KH talked like that since the beginning of time... maybe she cant help it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeTjUhAxabM

I can't understand why anyone would think a book about riot grrrls would have anything to do with Pussy Galore

Because you wouldn't write a book about the Replacements and neglect to mention their adversary Husker Du.

when i google riot grrrl pussy galore this stupid thread is the first result

Guess there was obv some beef between p galore and DC peeps that I was unaware of.

And yeah, Kathleen has always done the uptalking little girl voice even in the spoken parts of her songs. It's one of her things and I've always loved it on her tbh.

A little more o_0 is that an Amazon "search inside this book" for Frightwig gives me 0 results. Really?

smdh

Thanks for the Kathleen Hanna video! Didn't know the strip-club half of that story, which is amazing.

:)

man that Kathleen Hannah clip is GRATE

man am I allergic to kathleen hannah

I did make it 3:20 into that clip and only :45 into the roseanne one so

if someone could transcribe it so I don't have to hear her speak that would be great thx

she gave the song 'smells like teen spirit' its title, later for bikini kill to fund a tour she was a stripper and had to strip to it

btw it wouldve been better if the guy eddy from the hardcore band turned out to be eddy vedder

ENBB, the Roseanne episode had Jenna Elfman has a hitchhiker Roseanne picks up. They listen to Bikini Kill on the tape deck.

and at the end of it roseanne says 'a wake up call went off, and i heard it... loud and clear!!'

Roseanne was the original riot grrrl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls1YVhcLD2c

oh, ha, the video of that got posted.

lol, nice "it's Freedom Rock" joke.

"Because you wouldn't write a book about the Replacements and neglect to mention their adversary Husker Du."

vs.

"when i google riot grrrl pussy galore this stupid thread is the first result"

ENBB, the Roseanne episode had Jenna Elfman has a hitchhiker Roseanne picks up. They listen to Bikini Kill on the tape deck.

― tokyo rosemary, Tuesday, December 21, 2010 12:40 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

and at the end of it roseanne says 'a wake up call went off, and i heard it... loud and clear!!'

― the boobfinder general (Princess TamTam), Tuesday, December 21, 2010 12:41 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest

LOL. I gotta say, pretty excited to watch this later now.

btw it wouldve been better if the guy eddy from the hardcore band turned out to be eddy vedder

ha i was totally expecting this

OK that Roseanne clip is so amazing. I don't even know where to start.

Jenna Malone's hair and make-up = totally riot grrrrl amirite lol

Elfman whatever

it's freedom rock, man

her reddish brown lipstick is pretty otm tbh

"Janis JOPLIN not Janis Ian you idiot"

yep

So is book worth getting? My knowledge of riot grrrl is rubbish when i want it to be awesome.

idk, I've never heard the pants thing before, surprised to see it considered as some kind of played out meme

― S'cool bro, I only cried a little (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, June 8, 2011 12:56 PM (30 seconds ago) Bookmark

Yeah, me too.

I think it's an interesting book if you're interested in anecdotes about young punk women's experiences in trying to create their own political subculture, but yeah if you're coming at it from a musically focused "HEY WHERE'S FRIGHTWIG" you're gonna be disappointed

^^^ otm and lol

maybe it's just a tired meme to me -- i feel like i've heard "where are her PANTS" so much over the last 8 yrs though
but i'm not the memepolice -- i just didn't see how it was a fresh observation or w/e

maybe the cosmos are telling ME to put some pants on! who knows.

I think it's an interesting book if you're interested in anecdotes about young punk women's experiences in trying to create their own political subculture, but yeah if you're coming at it from a musically focused "HEY WHERE'S FRIGHTWIG" you're gonna be disappointed

― da croupier, Wednesday, June 8, 2011 1:01 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

Yeah well I think that's probably it then. I've always been interested in Riot Grrrl for many reasons - not just the music. The political/feminist aspects were what first drew me to it as a teenage girl. Falling in love with the bands/music was secondary. In regards to Frightwig - as far as I can tell it's a book about the 90s RG movement not bands who may have influenced those involved at that time.

I think Kathleen Hanna is cool but pretty clueless. Like many intelligent and successful artists she has her theories and they inform everything about her world. You could pick it apart if you wanted to be pedantic but that would be missing the point. It's her world and she's entitled to it. I mean if she posted her comments about Gaga on ILM she'd get told off in no uncertain terms. But ILM is a reflection of a different world than the internal world that drives and motivates an artist on a personal level.

eg. An interesting bit in that interview is when she talks about how Le Tigre tried to create an artistically credible package with costumes, back projections, good artwork etc. To her that's a pretty radical act that she feels needs to be recognized by the audience. More typically if you are going to step on stage presentation would be one of the first things you would think about and the audience's appreciation comes from enjoying the spectacle and the music rather than groking your artistic integrity.

I mean if she posted her comments about Gaga on ILM she'd get told off in no uncertain terms.

I talk about how bullshit Lady Gaga is all the time and don't feel like I'm being "told off" because I know I'm right!!

yeah, fuck a gaga IMO

srsly, 'told off'? she doesn't understand that larry is actually... can barely be bothered to write this... gaga sux fuiud

kinda true tho, i don't think i've ever read an interview with someone famous and thought 'this person would make a good ilm poster'

xposts LOL. Go to the Born This Way thread and post these comments and you'll probably be ignored, but if you're lucky you'll be contradicted. Because no-one is "right" about Gaga, or any artist really. You can only be right about your own viewpoint.

so why does it matter if Kathleen Hanna would get "told off" on ILM?

I guess it's my attempt to validate the feminist/punk glasses through which she views the world with. Not much that she says has credibility or worth IMO except if you consider that she is an artist and this is part of what motivates her art.

no one told me off for hating Lady Gaga - everybody responded that it made perfect sense that it "wasn't my thing"

*shrug*

i'm not really sure why her opinion is any more or less valid than any opinion picked at random from any ILM thread.

Shakey, her comment was not that Gaga "wasn't her thing". LOL that KH would ever say such an innocuous thing about a female performer. She said she should wear pants more.

Oh, and that the music is just euro-disco from the 90s or something.

Ha... I had the same thoughts reading that interview that KH would catch so much shit for her "kids today" stuff on ILM.

Shakey, her comment was not that Gaga "wasn't her thing".

I didn't say she "wasn't my thing" I said she sounded like horrible 90s eurotrash bullshit. and that I didn't believe that she was actually born "that way" (ie as a half a motorcycle)

lol whatever xp

Yeah well I think that's probably it then. I've always been interested in Riot Grrrl for many reasons - not just the music. The political/feminist aspects were what first drew me to it as a teenage girl.

Just to clarify, I totally enjoyed the book.

if I'm bummed by anything in the recent hanna press its how she kinda dismissed sara quinn's Odd Future piece with a "if you don't like something, don't listen to it" (http://www.spinner.com/2011/06/07/le-tigre-documentary/). I have to assume she never actually read the thing because it's not just some call for an OF boycott.

Possibly she hadn't read it and did not want to be drawn into this question because she actually doesn't know much about what was going on? Nothing wrong with that. it makes sense that someone like KH, who could be a go-to rentaquote target needs to pick her battles.

hey thanks croup - gonna read that article later

the complete OF quote is totally OTM:

I feel like, if you don't want to listen to them, don't listen to them. If you do want to listen to them, do listen to them. I couldn't really comment about on exactly what their lyrics are about, because I haven't gotten that deep into it. But if people are writing lyrics that piss you off, hurt your feelings and make you feel like s---, don't listen to it. I don't think the best idea is to have a boycott. Just don't talk about them and they'll go away. The more you talk about them, the more attention they get. Tegan and Sara fans probably wouldn't even know this band existed if they weren't talking about them. I find the whole conversation kind of boring. There are so many great artists that are doing interesting things, that I don't want to focus on boring people.

gotta say that the respectful, non-misogynistic criticisms on this thread are a world away from the way old-time ILM used to talk about kathleen hanna (and other female artists who weren't, i don't know, in saint etienne or something).

You're right, someone better correct this, and fast!

(please don't correct this)

thing is, quin wasn't pushing for a boycott, she was trying to get her peers in indieland to think about their actions in relation to Odd Future. It's totally fair if she doesn't want to get caught up in these kind of hassles anymore, but I'd hate to think Hanna actually thinks Quin's misguided to call out the casual acceptance of misogyny and homophobia around her.

Worst thing about that whole thing was Odd Future's vile response - a hateful post on twitter. So depressing.

quin didn't explicitly call for a boycott, but she did intimate in her piece that tyler should experience "meaningful repercussions in the entertainment industry" and I have to imagine she means something beyond a stern talking-to, plenty of ppl have taken him to task for his lyrics at this point

kathleen hanna otm

gotta say that the respectful, non-misogynistic criticisms on this thread are a world away from the way old-time ILM used to talk about kathleen hanna (and other female artists who weren't, i don't know, in saint etienne or something).

?

the little bit of digging I did to see what you were talking about showed nasty stuff by googlers and an extended inside joke about Kat Marco

then again, I know next to nothing about Kathleen Hanna and as a result have avoided most threads about her

xp. I like the idea of posting quotes from old interviews with famously opinionated musicians under fake names and seeing which of them work as ILX posters. I suspect most of them would get sb'ed.

i don't really want to go digging but i remember threads with ppl expressing the desire to punch her in the face, calling le tigre 'ugly lesbians,' et al...maybe it seemed different in context but back then i found it so depressing that i started avoiding those threads.

I know next to nothing about Kathleen Hanna and as a result have avoided most threads about her

i want to believe you have an alert for when people refer to "old ilm"

I have to say I think what she said about odd future is totally OTM. Once I got over my initial anger at reading some of their lyrics it's pretty much the same conclusion I came to.

Hanna actually thinks Quin's misguided to call out the casual acceptance of misogyny and homophobia around her

I doubt she feels that way considering that's basically what KH built a career doing.

Maybe she misunderstood what Quinn had written? Idk. It just doesn't seem like she was really well-informed about the whole thing.

I like the idea of posting quotes from old interviews with famously opinionated musicians under fake names and seeing which of them work as ILX posters. I suspect most of them would get sb'ed.

sounds like a job for a sock

DJP here's what you need to know - she's awesome, smart, fearless, important and has basically been the queen of my world since I was like 16.

btw I still find it really strange that she's married to Ad-Rock.

yeah I don't think I want to hear those love songs lol

actually those are some of her best stuff!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waxeAasupZM

I have to believe she has something to do with the guy who sang "girls" becoming the guy who sang "song for the man"

I'm sorry I started a thread that somehow has come back around to ILX talking about Odd Future being offensive / not offensive

well DUH

lol xp[

lol

lol I love "Girls". Might be my favorite BB song. OK not really but I do love it.

ad-rock's highest profile relationships were molly ringwald, ione skye and kathleen hanna. that's pretty awesome.