Odessey and Oracle vs Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

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Poll Results

OptionVotes
Odessey and Oracle 51
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band 42


Moka, Friday, 24 December 2010 09:36 (fifteen years ago)

O&O, but neither are even close to SF Sorrow

sonofstan, Friday, 24 December 2010 09:39 (fifteen years ago)

Oooh, a toughie. Pepper is far from my favourite Beatles album, and I love O&O. I've never really thought of the two together as companions or competitors though.

What inspired this poll?

Captain Ostensible (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 24 December 2010 09:40 (fifteen years ago)

The sacred cow impulse.

acoleuthic, Friday, 24 December 2010 09:41 (fifteen years ago)

A discussion I hada with a friend a few hours ago over which one of these two is the better pop/psychedelia/concept album.

She says Sgt. Pepper was more influential and historically important and blablah and I say that removed from context O&O actually feels like a full concept with a much richer sound and proves the Zombies, even without George Martin were much more able musicians, whereas the concept of Sgt Pepper seems to fall apart after 'with a little help from my friends' and after that it loses any sort of meaningful connection in ideas or sound palette and it just becomes an ordinary Beatles album. Thought it'd interesting to bring it over to ILM.

Moka, Friday, 24 December 2010 09:49 (fifteen years ago)

Two absolutely amazing albums that represent the pinnacle of both acts' work.

That said, O&O is actually the better one here. :)

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Friday, 24 December 2010 09:50 (fifteen years ago)

That said I've always found them related. Both sacred cows released in the late 60s, grounded in psychedelic pop and conceptual albums by british invasion bands that were not really known for this kind of work.

Moka, Friday, 24 December 2010 10:01 (fifteen years ago)

Few of the acts behind the most famous psych albums were known for that kind of style. The ones that started out doing this style (Nirvana, Kaleidoscope and other bands who mostly got namesakes in the US later on ;) ) were never quite as famous.

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Friday, 24 December 2010 10:04 (fifteen years ago)

Ah yeah they were also both signed to EMI and thus recorded in Abbey Road the same year.

Moka, Friday, 24 December 2010 10:07 (fifteen years ago)

O&O, but neither are even close to SF Sorrow

Absolute nuclear-grade truthbomb

Stockhausen's Ekranoplan Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Friday, 24 December 2010 10:32 (fifteen years ago)

"SF Sorrow" is also a great album, but not by any means close to these two milestones.

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Friday, 24 December 2010 13:21 (fifteen years ago)

"Ogden's Nut Gone Flake" is also better than "SF Sorrow".

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Friday, 24 December 2010 13:21 (fifteen years ago)

Pepper. Never warmed to Odyssey and Oracle.

EZ Snappin, Friday, 24 December 2010 13:23 (fifteen years ago)

Odessey.

scary-cat-mascot-costumes-for-kids2.tk (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Friday, 24 December 2010 13:26 (fifteen years ago)

O & O by a big margin. SF Sorrow'd better only if you count the singles tagged onto the CD. Ogden's is weak.

Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Friday, 24 December 2010 14:30 (fifteen years ago)

Ogden's is wonderful, and the narrator's cockney accent is even better than the music.

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Saturday, 25 December 2010 00:33 (fifteen years ago)

Odessey and Oracle certainly

gospodin simmel, Sunday, 26 December 2010 13:25 (fifteen years ago)

O&O, but neither are even close to SF Sorrow

boner graphs (electricsound), Sunday, 26 December 2010 13:44 (fifteen years ago)

I don't even think of S.F. Sorrow as being in the same game as these two. It's absolutely better, of course.

scary-cat-mascot-costumes-for-kids2.tk (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Sunday, 26 December 2010 13:50 (fifteen years ago)

No, it isn't. The only 60s album that can compare with these two timeless classics is "Pet Sounds".

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 26 December 2010 14:13 (fifteen years ago)

both are high-quality psyche pop, but o&o is boring.

rake rock reggae (kkvgz), Sunday, 26 December 2010 15:00 (fifteen years ago)

pepper. I agree, O&O isn't that exciting. I didn't hear it for years and year (actually, I think I first heard it three years ago) and my expectations had been raised way too high. It's alright but it's not in Pepper's sphere, even with the irritating things about Pepper (cloying songs, mainly), the thing is exceptionally recorded and mixed.

akm, Sunday, 26 December 2010 15:16 (fifteen years ago)

Never heard of The Pretty Things **Listening**

musicfanatic, Sunday, 26 December 2010 16:07 (fifteen years ago)

O&O for me.

musicfanatic, Sunday, 26 December 2010 16:07 (fifteen years ago)

Oddly enough, was listening to a mono copy of pepper on a mono built-in-speaker record player just yesterday (i.e. basically as it was originally heard by most people). Really drags. For 1967, I'd probably just go with The Who.

dlp9001, Sunday, 26 December 2010 18:45 (fifteen years ago)

For '67 I'd go with Pink Floyd.

EZ Snappin, Sunday, 26 December 2010 18:46 (fifteen years ago)

Possible non- Beatles/ Stones/ Who/ Kinks poll of 60s British albums - one per artist: SF Sorrow, O&O, Piper, Ogden's, anymore? Fairports, ISB nominations?

sonofstan, Sunday, 26 December 2010 18:59 (fifteen years ago)

Dusty In Memphis should destroy that poll

gospodin simmel, Sunday, 26 December 2010 19:03 (fifteen years ago)

^^^^

Didn't think of it - good call. Any more?

sonofstan, Sunday, 26 December 2010 19:08 (fifteen years ago)

Five Leaves Left, Piper at the Gates of Dawn, Led Zeppelin I and II, In the Court of the Crimson King, Disraeli Gears...

not a big fan of any of these actually

gospodin simmel, Sunday, 26 December 2010 19:50 (fifteen years ago)

Colin Blunstone was a better singer than any of The Beatles, although Paul is close. I'd say Pepper has more interesting arrangements and recording techniques and overall variation in texture, but Odessey has more consistent songwriting. I went with Odessey.

St3ve Go1db3rg, Sunday, 26 December 2010 20:39 (fifteen years ago)

"Five Leaves Left", "Disreali Gears" and the two Led Zep albums are not in this particular style of music at all. Led Zep and Cream are rock, Nick Drake was a very toned-down acoustic singer/songwriter while the others are all prime English psych pop albums. I wouldn't really say "Crimson King" quite fits in either, as that one was more a blueprint for 70s symphonic rock than a psych pop album.

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 26 December 2010 23:15 (fifteen years ago)

But really, this was one of the greatest eras of music of all time. Nursery rhyme/Music Hall-influenced songs with hardly no R&B references at all, lots of vocal harmonies, crazy nursery-rhyme influenced surrealist lyrics about everything and nothing, lots of sitars, mellotrons and studio gimmickery. WONDERFUL! One of the best eras of music ever!!!

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 26 December 2010 23:17 (fifteen years ago)

You think there's no R n'B in the Zombies?!

sonofstan, Sunday, 26 December 2010 23:23 (fifteen years ago)

Between the Buttons?

gospodin simmel, Sunday, 26 December 2010 23:27 (fifteen years ago)

xxp I was talking 60's British albums in general

gospodin simmel, Sunday, 26 December 2010 23:31 (fifteen years ago)

You think there's no R n'B in the Zombies?!

Zombies, yeah. "Odessey & Oracle", not much. "Begin Here" surely contained a lot of R&B-ish tunes, although the singles/best ones had less of it.

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 26 December 2010 23:35 (fifteen years ago)

Between the Buttons?

I would say "Their Majesties Satanic Request" fits in way better in this category.

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 26 December 2010 23:35 (fifteen years ago)

Anyway, some UK albums from 67-68 that do fit in are:
Bee Gees: "The Bee Gees 1st"
Hollies: "Butterfly"
Kaleidoscope: "Tangerine Dream"
Moody Blues: Everything they released from 1967 through 1969/70
Nirvana: "The Story Of Simon Simopath" and "All Of Us"
Billy Nichols: "Would You Believe"
Status Quo: "Picturesque Matchstickable Messages From The Status Quo"
Skip Bifferty: "Skip Bifferty"

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 26 December 2010 23:39 (fifteen years ago)

You think there's no R n'B in the Zombies?!

Zombies, yeah. "Odessey & Oracle", not much

LOL whut? "Care of Cell 44" and "I Want Her She Wants Me" could practically be H-D-H originals for the Supremes, and "Time of the Season" IS an R&B song.

Tub Girl Time Machine (Phil D.), Sunday, 26 December 2010 23:50 (fifteen years ago)

I wanted to do a poll that would deliberately exclude the Beatles/ Stones/ Who/ Kinks on this basis: if the fabs are there they'll probably win, and if I take them out, the Stones will probably win, and if I take them out, it'll be the Who or the Kinks (probably the Kinks actually) - so in order to have a poll where it's not a foregone conclusion, i thought it would be interesting to poll the 'second string' (though in my head anyway, the Pretties outclass everyone except the Kinks, but that's just me).

For me, Odessey and Oracle, SF Sorrow, Piper, Ogden's Nut Gone Flake, and a few of Geir's suggestions* seem the same 'type' of thing: Psychish, vaguely conceptual, but also more pop than not.

* Love the first BeeGees - if people are happy they're British enough, I'd stick them in. Don't own a copy of the Hollies, but like what I know. The Kaleidescope and the Nirvana are a bit generic, and not well enough known. I wish I owned the Billy Nichols but I don't, and I suspect not many do. Hate the Bloody Moos, but if people can agree on one, I'd stick it in. What about Procol Harum? Shine on Brightly or A Salty Dog?

sonofstan, Sunday, 26 December 2010 23:52 (fifteen years ago)

For me, Odessey and Oracle, SF Sorrow, Piper, Ogden's Nut Gone Flake, and a few of Geir's suggestions* seem the same 'type' of thing: Psychish, vaguely conceptual, but also more pop than not.

"Piper" is a double edged sword. The beginning and end (the Syd ones) are definitely very much in there. But in the middle of the album, there are some pretty "out there" jams (the Roger ones) that have musically more in common with Frank Zappa (or even John Cage or Stockhausen) than with "Pepper"/"Odessey"

In the case of Procol Harum, I think "Salty Dog" is generally established as their best, but it's a considerably more down-to-earth effort than "Shine On Brightly", which is their most psyched-out album.

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 26 December 2010 23:57 (fifteen years ago)

Oh, and, "Butterfly" is considerably different from everything else by The Hollies. It contains tracks like these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEj0MBhC_7g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No3avBXCEP0

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 26 December 2010 23:58 (fifteen years ago)

In the case of Moody Blues, I'd say "In Search Of The Lost Chord" is the most psych one. It contains a closing track with sitar and all:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwcizavYNTc

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Monday, 27 December 2010 00:01 (fifteen years ago)

If you go a bit outside the most obviously "out there" psych pop, The Move's fine self-titled debut album might fit in. Perhaps also baroque pop efforts such as Left Banke's "Walk Away Renee/Pretty Ballerina" and "Barry Ryan Sings Paul Ryan" by Barry Ryan.

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Monday, 27 December 2010 00:04 (fifteen years ago)

Around by Grapefruit would fit into this mini-genre, although it's not, y'know, a masterpiece.

mitsubishi goofus (unregistered), Monday, 27 December 2010 00:16 (fifteen years ago)

same goes for Manfred Mann - Mighty Garvey!

mitsubishi goofus (unregistered), Monday, 27 December 2010 00:19 (fifteen years ago)

Xpost. I thought a lot of people got Billy Nichols when it got reissued. Maybe at this point it's become less well-known again? I liked it a lot, but don't feel any great need to play it often these days. Forever Changes (like Who Sell Out) seems fresher these days than a lot of others mentioned, though it's not UK...

dlp9001, Monday, 27 December 2010 01:57 (fifteen years ago)

IDK if this fits in this genre:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3012/2551842601_570414e3f5.jpg?v=0

The Four Seasons' "The Genuine Imitation Life Gazette." TBH I just want more people to listen to this album. WIsh I could find a youtube of "Something's On Her Mind."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVU-Ui13iPM

Stop Non-Erotic Cabaret (Abbbottt), Monday, 27 December 2010 02:08 (fifteen years ago)

same goes for Manfred Mann - Mighty Garvey!

"Mighty Garvey" seems to me most like a joke, although with a few ace songs included. A bit like The Turtles "Battle Of The Bands", which contains their best ever couple of singles, while the rest of the album is just a joke.

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Monday, 27 December 2010 13:47 (fifteen years ago)

Abbbottt: I guess many American albums might fit in if American albums were to be included.

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Monday, 27 December 2010 13:48 (fifteen years ago)

You'll get sick of O & O if you listen to it long enough.

open ass, insert dome (u s steel), Monday, 27 December 2010 14:37 (fifteen years ago)

the concept of Sgt Pepper seems to fall apart after 'with a little help from my friends' and after that it loses any sort of meaningful connection in ideas or sound palette and it just becomes an ordinary Beatles album

Crazy talk.

Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 27 December 2010 16:38 (fifteen years ago)

it just becomes an ordinary Beatles album

Like all the others.....

*runs*

sonofstan, Monday, 27 December 2010 16:40 (fifteen years ago)

You could make a case that a bunch of Pepper songs could have been on Revolver and that is also just an ordinary Beatles album.

As for straying from the concept, I'm imagining what it would sound like with faux crowd noise in between all the songs and little announcements of other Billy Shear-like made-up characters and maybe some extra references thrown in all the lyrics to Sgt. Pepper and stuff. The result probably would've been a far more silly and divisive album.

The concept was basically a career statement about them quitting touring far more than about Sgt. Pepper and some psych mythology. I guess the further we get from the historical context the easier it is to misread and just say "what a lousy concept album".

Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 27 December 2010 16:57 (fifteen years ago)

"You could make a case that a bunch of Pepper songs could have been on Revolver and that is also just an ordinary Beatles album."

Isn't Revolver just an ordinary Beatles album?

Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 27 December 2010 17:15 (fifteen years ago)

Revolver is among the most ordinary of Beatles albums.

kkvgz, Monday, 27 December 2010 17:19 (fifteen years ago)

Sgt. Pepper's is like being fired out of a cannon compared to Revolver.

kkvgz, Monday, 27 December 2010 17:20 (fifteen years ago)

is this you trolling just for fun again?

pixel farmer, Monday, 27 December 2010 17:21 (fifteen years ago)

I don't mean that Revolver is a bad album, just that isn't the only thing that distinguishes Sgt Peppers from Revolver/Rubber Soul/White Album is the fact that the former has this cache as being "the total artistic statement" of the Beatles while the latter are just "great" Beatles albums.

Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 27 December 2010 17:26 (fifteen years ago)

xp: I do think that Revolver is one of the more patchy Beatles albums.

kkvgz, Monday, 27 December 2010 17:32 (fifteen years ago)

dang...well, I totally disagree there

pixel farmer, Monday, 27 December 2010 17:33 (fifteen years ago)

Many people do.

kkvgz, Monday, 27 December 2010 17:35 (fifteen years ago)

Isn't Revolver just an ordinary Beatles album?

And Revolver is usually rated much higher than Pepper, so I don't think ordinary-Beatles-albumness has any value as a measure of how good a record is.

Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 27 December 2010 17:36 (fifteen years ago)

My tracklisting for the Beatles Revolver EP

"Here, There and Everywhere" McCartney 2:26
"Yellow Submarine" Starr 2:40
"She Said She Said" Lennon 2:37
"Good Day Sunshine" McCartney 2:10
"For No One" McCartney 2:01
"Got to Get You into My Life" McCartney 2:31
"Tomorrow Never Knows" Lennon 2:57

kkvgz, Monday, 27 December 2010 17:38 (fifteen years ago)

I think Pepper stands up to repeated listens better that O&O due to the better production. A million listens and I still hear new, strange bits on that album.

If we're just talking about songwriting and tunes then, A Day in the Life > O&O > rest of Pepper

Darin, Monday, 27 December 2010 18:22 (fifteen years ago)

The top 25 'psychedelic pop' releases according to rym charts:

1
The Beatles
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (1967)
2
The Beatles
Magical Mystery Tour (1967)
3
Love
Forever Changes (1967)
4
The Zombies
Odessey and Oracle (1968)
5
The Flaming Lips
The Soft Bulletin (1999)
6
Milton Nascimento & Lô Borges
Clube da Esquina (1972)
7
XTC
Skylarking (1986)
8
The Byrds
Younger Than Yesterday (1967)
9
The Flaming Lips
Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots (2002)
10
Gal Costa
Gal Costa (1969)
11
The Left Banke
Walk Away Renée / Pretty Ballerina (1967)
12
The Pretty Things
Parachute (1970)
13
Gal Costa
Gal (1969)
14
Gilberto Gil
Gilberto Gil (1969)
15
The Millennium
Begin (1968)
16
Panda Bear
Person Pitch (2007)
17
Os Mutantes
Mutantes (1969)
18
Brigitte Fontaine & Art Ensemble of Chicago
Comme à la radio (1970)
19
Brian Wilson
Smile (2004)
20
Robyn Hitchcock
I Often Dream of Trains (1984)
21
Lucio Battisti
Anima latina (1974)
22
The Olivia Tremor Control
Music From the Unrealized Film Script, Dusk at Cubist Castle (1996)
23
Billy Nicholls
Would You Believe (1968)
24
Kaleidoscope
Tangerine Dream (1967)
25
Small Faces
There Are But Four Small Faces (1967)

Moka, Monday, 27 December 2010 23:28 (fifteen years ago)

Lots of stuff from 1967. 1969 seems it was the year when it broke into Brazil, great albums in there.

Moka, Monday, 27 December 2010 23:31 (fifteen years ago)

O & O by a wide margin, love almost every track on there.

skip, Monday, 27 December 2010 23:33 (fifteen years ago)

And Revolver is usually rated much higher than Pepper

At least it has been since the late 70s. Pre-punk, "Sgt. Pepper" was considered to be their artistic pinnacle.

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 09:38 (fifteen years ago)

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Sunday, 9 January 2011 00:01 (fifteen years ago)

with the non-Beatles/Stones/Who/Kinks albums, I'd maybe go with the Tomorrow album, Traffic's Mr. Fantasy, maybe the first Soft Machine album and one of the Incredible String Band albums, I've heard 5000 Spirits and Hangman's Daughter...
anybody here like the Deviants? Hapshash and the Coloured Coat? Ron Geesin? All of these are pretty coming up pretty soon on my things-to-check-out list.

the Sonic Youths of suck (Drugs A. Money), Sunday, 9 January 2011 08:06 (fifteen years ago)

I have never gotten fully behind Love tbh.

tables n tables (crüt), Sunday, 9 January 2011 08:41 (fifteen years ago)

I feel Incredible String Band is something else. More folk than psych. More Donovan than Beatles. Only way more out there than Donovan ever was.

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 9 January 2011 13:06 (fifteen years ago)

Love is American but still, really, Crut? I kind of feel like they're one of the most listenable of the 60s bands...

the Sonic Youths of suck (Drugs A. Money), Sunday, 9 January 2011 15:52 (fifteen years ago)

Donovan's "A Gift From a Flower" is some pretty rad stuff. Hippie jazz folk with a late-60s pop production.

Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 9 January 2011 18:19 (fifteen years ago)

Possible non- Beatles/ Stones/ Who/ Kinks poll of 60s British albums - one per artist: SF Sorrow, O&O, Piper, Ogden's, anymore? Fairports, ISB nominations?
Let's go international so albums like Turtle Soup and Safe as Milk could fight for standing.

Sanford, Sunday, 9 January 2011 18:30 (fifteen years ago)

Love= more folk than psych. American psychedelia is really something else than English, and they don't have much in common apart from the chronology and the links to the hippie cult.

English psychedelia: Twee, influence from Indian music, sitars, mellotrons, lyrics about pink elephants and cellophane skies. Lots of studio gimmickery
American psychedelia: Influence from folk and blues, lots of jazz influenced improvisation. Not so much studio gimmickery although Grateful Dead used some of it for a while

I know there are exceptions, like Lemon Pipers were very "English" in their style whereas Cream were probably more "American", but it is generally two very different types of music that don't really have anything much in common.

You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 9 January 2011 20:15 (fifteen years ago)

true enough.

Mark G, Sunday, 9 January 2011 20:18 (fifteen years ago)

lyrics about pink elephants and cellophane skies

what about orange skies, carnivals, and cotton candy?

the Sonic Youths of suck (Drugs A. Money), Sunday, 9 January 2011 20:57 (fifteen years ago)

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Monday, 10 January 2011 00:01 (fifteen years ago)

Geir fairly OTM (and relatively non-biased) in that last post. Just sayin'

If it cannot be notated, then there is no nute. (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 10 January 2011 05:59 (fifteen years ago)

well I imagine you probably would know Myonga

Are you anticipating an end to the Age of Stupid? (Drugs A. Money), Monday, 10 January 2011 06:08 (fifteen years ago)

six years pass...

Yeah, this is a bit of a no-brainer: Odessey and Oracle is clearly the superior album, although I'd put it ahead of the album the Beatles put out in 1968, too.

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 20:34 (eight years ago)

jfc give it a rest

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 20:40 (eight years ago)

Hang on, I don't recall talking about Odessey and Oracle recently!

'Hung Up On a Dream' is quite possibly one of my favourite songs of the '60s... I love the chord changes, the melody, the lyrics, the production, everything, but really the whole album rules and should have made them huge.

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 20:49 (eight years ago)

eventually every thread on ilx will just be turrican talking about how lame the white album is

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 21:15 (eight years ago)

I'm talking about how good Odessey and Oracle is! There's some gorgeous vocal harmonies on this record.

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 21:19 (eight years ago)

Time Of The Season owns

brimstead, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 00:56 (eight years ago)

LOL @ argument upthread about it being an r&b song

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 00:58 (eight years ago)


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