Would Lou Reed have a career without Andy Warhol?

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I have often wondered...I love Lou Reed, but mostly because I think of him as the bonehead of art-rock (lyrics like "You scream/I steam/we all want egg cream" or most of "Satellite Of Love"?), which puts him in this great character mode in me brain where he sings his songs in a big black room with a mullet and a silent audience nodding their heads as some guy gets thrown out for coughing...and my god does he sound terrible live (hear "Lou Reed Live"...deeaary!) Please don't crucify me for this, as I know there are some diehards out there, and I am close to being one of them myself!

― Ashley Andel, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:11 (twenty-three years ago)

You're asking two different questions:

1) "If it weren't for Andy Warhol's mid-'60s fame-whirlwind and cultural influence, would Lou Reed (and the Velvet Underground) ever have gotten noticed?"

2) "Lou Reed sucks.... RIGHT????"

― Jody Beth Rosen, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:31 (twenty-three years ago)

1) no

2) yes. late seventies to present.
i think. i'm not really sure. the
curly black mullet period. songs
for drella and such. the stupid
lyrics. the mullet, again. that
one video where he's in the chicken
costume. giant chicken costume.
pretty sucky.

― DLK, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:45 (twenty-three years ago)

He had a career before Warhol, right? Writing jingles at Pickwick. He didn't need Drella to write "The Ostrich."

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 17:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Disproof of this theory = Growing Up In Public.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Roomie picked up an original copy of the first VU album for a dollar, off the street --> the banana on the cover was of course long-"peeled" with a only a red-tinted naked banana left there.... i'd never noticed before that the back loudly claims that it was "Produced By Andy Warhol" !!! REALLY?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:24 (twenty-three years ago)

I like Lou Read a lot as well..however, personally (read, not the gospel truth- just my opinion)- VU's attraction for me will always be John Cale's influence on the first 2 albums.....as for Lou solo- well I dont know...

― insectifly, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:26 (twenty-three years ago)

yes I know, Reed....not Read.

― insectifly, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:26 (twenty-three years ago)

His best album, "Coney Island Baby," is years removed from Warhol, Cale etc. I think Warhol was just a leg up for Lou Reed, who'd've found a place to ply his trade somewhere.

― John Darniell, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:34 (twenty-three years ago)

the guy twiddling the knobs was Tom Wilson (of "Like A Rolling Stone" fame) who I gather was the it producer of 1967ish.

to quote the AMG (chapter 8123, verse 22398745): "Andy Warhol's presence as producer was primarily a matter of signing the checks." So "produced" in the cinema sense and not the studio engineering sense.

Surely there's someone more steeped in Velvet's Lore than I who can corroborate/correct, but I think he was kind of turned off by the Factory circus in his studio, Warhol telling him what to do, etc. Did he have his name taken off it?

― gcannon, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Good solo Lou Reed (in my opinion):

"Charley's Girl"
"Walk on the Wild Side"
"Sally Can't Dance"
"I Wanna Be Black"
"Real Good Time Together"

― Ashley Andel, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Last two tracks of above list are (at most) live, and he does sound bad, but it just works.

― Ashley Andel, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:51 (twenty-three years ago)

taking sides: Andy Warhol vs Tony Wilson

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:59 (twenty-three years ago)

taking sides: andy warhol vs leonard nimoy

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:00 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.fiftiesweb.com/wt/nimoy-zamora.jpg

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:37 (twenty-three years ago)

The Ballad of the Green (blooded) Berets! Hoo-AH!
But here's some Nimoy footage that might swing the vote away from Nimoy

― Lord Custos Alpha (Lord Custos Alpha), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 21:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Would Lou Reed have a career without Andy Warhol?

Sure!
Warhol had little impact on his initial career besides painting the cover of the first VU record. I'm sure he would've gotten by without Warhols help. About 9/10ths of his solo career had no direct Warhol influence.
A possible (VU-free) scenario is that he could've utilized what he learned from the failure of "The Ostrich", and perfect his sound until he had a hit...and then another...and then another...until he became some sort of fruity Neo-Elvis Popstar.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Reeeed has left the building.

― Lord Custos Alpha (Lord Custos Alpha), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 21:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Warhol had little impact on his initial career besides painting the cover of the first VU record

Custos: wrong information isn't bad per se but I think to be worth anything it's got to be wrong for an interesting reason - i.e. productively wrong.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 22:46 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah. Warhol arranged to give 'em a career, paired them with Nico, controlled their whole crazy-lightshow-decadent image. But I think the question is off anyway coz Reed's only "somber mullethead" period was Live and The Bells and there's an incredible amount to recommend on the egg-cream album, not least the guitarwork on that song & I think its great that he can pass himself off as an "artist" then sometimes he really is.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 22 August 2002 02:17 (twenty-three years ago)

In my opinion, The Velvet Underground where a million times better than Lou Reed's solo carreer. This is mostly due to Andy Warhol's producing and John Cale's 'noise-as-aesthetic' influence on the first two albums - they got a lot worse after Cale left. Transformer was a good album, but his music is basically shit after that.

I do think that Andy Warhol's studio community helped VU to become popular and better, but I think that John Cale's input was the most important. If it weren't for him (in my close-minded opinion), they would've been shit

― rob, Thursday, 22 August 2002 02:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Loaded was their best album.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 22 August 2002 02:32 (twenty-three years ago)

here's an incredible amount to recommend on the egg-cream album, not least the guitarwork on that song

"The egg-cream album" is Set the Twilight Reeling and I think it's one of Lou's best solo albums -- sure that song is dumb, but you're right, the record deserves better than to be dismissed just because of one bad single. The title track's lyrics are pretty damn beautiful:

Take me for what I am
a star newly emerging
Long simmering explodes
inside the self is reeling
In the pocket of the heart, in the rushing of the blood
in the muscle of my sex, in the mindful mindless love
I accept the new found man
and set the twilight reeling

At 5 am the moon and the sun
sit set before my window
Light glances off the blue glass we set
right before the window
And you who accept, in your soul and your head
what was misunderstood, what was thought of with dread
a new self is born, the other self dead
I accept the new found man
and set the twilight reeling

A soul singer stands on the stage
the spotlight shows him sweating
He sinks to one knee, seems to cry
the horn are unrelenting
But as the drums beats he finds himself growing hard
in the microphone's face he sees her face growing large
and the swelling crescendo no longer retards
I accept the new found man and set the twilight reeling

As the twilight sunburst gleams
as the chromium moon it sets
As I lose all my regrets
and set the twilight reeling
I accept the new found man
and set the twilight reeling

― Jody Beth Rosen, Thursday, 22 August 2002 03:11 (twenty-three years ago)

The Velvet Underground where a million times better than Lou Reed's solo carreer.

Thats 'cuz he was still young and brash and had John Cale to help him.

― Lord Custos Alpha (Lord Custos Alpha), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Custos: wrong information isn't bad per se but I think to be worth anything it's got to be wrong for an interesting reason - i.e. productively wrong.
Hunh?

― Lord Custos Alpha (Lord Custos Alpha), Thursday, 22 August 2002 18:57 (twenty-three years ago)

ha ha.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 19:02 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think the words to "Set the Twilight Reeling" are all that great. The cadence is screwed up, the rhymes are Lou-Reed-bad, and his cock-obsession is showing. I don't think he's been worthwhile since (heard this before) CONEY ISLAND BABY, despite my friends coming round with the release of each record to convince me otherwise. And I like Lou Reed. But he's just someone with the privilege to say whatever nonsense is on his mind, with a cadre of devotees built-in to listen. Everyone who buys a couple VU albums will give Lou a couple of shots solo, but the rewards are minimal. My mistake was getting 2 VU albums (that gave him inroads for a couple solos), then another VU (a couple solos), etc. I shoulda just bought them all at once and gotten over it!

― matt riedl (veal), Thursday, 22 August 2002 19:17 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm very surprised no-one likes "New York". Which is a great great record.

― Simon, Thursday, 22 August 2002 20:26 (twenty-three years ago)

I like New York, and it's still the only later-period Lou album worth half a damn. But then again, the only other album of his I own is Metal Machine Music, so I'm probably fuk tup.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 22 August 2002 22:15 (twenty-three years ago)

No Warhol = no Songs for Drella, Lou's best batch of lyrics ever. But I still like the albums with Laurie Anderson better, including that egg cream song (one would think Lou's aware that he hasn't written "Leaves of Grass").

― B:Rad, Friday, 23 August 2002 03:28 (twenty-three years ago)

I like "Sex With Your Parents", and unfortunately, I cannot agree that "Set The Twilight Reeling" is all that redeeming---I mean "I wanna Hooky-Wooky with you"?

I have "Songs For Drella", and I think it has it's moments--it was "Work" that got me into him--i always play that song when I get down...

― Ashley Andel, Friday, 23 August 2002 04:12 (twenty-three years ago)

He wrote a song with lyrics that went "I saw the chair/And then I sat in it," no?

I guess he'd have done the same had he not met Warhol. Only sooner.

― Tadeusz Suchodolski (llamasfur), Friday, 23 August 2002 05:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Alternatively, the world would have been spared "Like a Possum."

I think it should be said that, for such a "great" songwriter, LR's written an awful lot of unredeemably crap lyrics. The crap/quality ratio is closer to 1 than it is for other songwriters of similar caliber.

(NB: bite yer tongue, Mr. Sinker, you-know-who always admitted that most of his lyrics were stupid).

― Tadeusz Suchodolski (llamasfur), Friday, 23 August 2002 05:37 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm very surprised no-one likes "New York". Which is a great great record.
I agree. Much better than Berlin or Transformer

― Lord Custos Alpha (Lord Custos Alpha), Monday, 26 August 2002 13:49 (twenty-three years ago)

More cock-obsession, please, Lou.

― Arthur (Arthur), Monday, 26 August 2002 15:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Set the Twilight Reeling seems to be underrated around here... NYC Man is a wonderful throwback to Coney Island Baby & Hang on to Your Emotions... has a great bassline... I though Ecstasy was pretty good too.

But I do prefer Cale solo to Reed solo.

― dave (Dave225), Monday, 26 August 2002 16:07 (twenty-three years ago)

seventeen years pass...

https://variety.com/2019/music/news/lost-lou-reed-songs-for-andy-warhol-discovered-1203388986/

― dracula et son fils (morrisp), Thursday, 31 October 2019 02:47 (six years ago)

This thread is a treat

― Οὖτις, Thursday, 31 October 2019 03:11 (six years ago)

Would any of us have a career without Andy Warhol?

― tylerw, Thursday, 31 October 2019 03:25 (six years ago)

Doubtful

― Ferlinghetti Hvorostovsky (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 31 October 2019 04:10 (six years ago)

Coincidentally listening to Songs for Drella when this thread came up.

― ... (Eazy), Thursday, 31 October 2019 05:28 (six years ago)

You scared yourself with music, I scared myself with paint

― dracula et son fils (morrisp), Thursday, 31 October 2019 05:51 (six years ago)

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