Beck's "Sea Change" C/D

If you get a chance, play "Paper Tiger" and Gainsbourg's "L'hotel Particulier" back to back.

And do you have to be from France to rip off Serge?

I mean that for all the '70s revivalism we endured in the '90s and early '00s, all the disco and punk and new wave and electronic music and prog and post-psych, the one thing that never came back was "sensitive male singer-songwriter" (John Denver, Dan Fogelberg, Stephen Bishop). It's just not something today's hipsters tend to like (although I'm sure, as with anything, there are a few aberrations), not even ironically.

And this seems to be the sound Beck's going for with "Sea Change," excepting for those stray moments of French ballad-pop and British psych-folk.

My immediate response to that would be Mark Kozelek (and for that matter Mark Eitzel) -- and hell, Low was on that tribute comp to Denver that Kozelek coordinated. It's been there, it's just that it hasn't been Beck doing it (and now that it is it'll be seen to be his fault/doing, depending on your interpretation of it).

1) One tribute album coordinated by one weirdo musician isn't a "comeback" per se.

2) There's a difference (I think) between Kozelek/Eitzel/Elliot Smith and Denver/Fogelberg/Bishop. The former genre is more indie-referenced, less putridly sentimental, really more an offshoot of some kind of mellow offshoot of Lou Reed and John Lennon. It values "intelligent, "literate" songwriting, something today's English grads take seriously. The latter is completely earnest without the veil of boho-irony, and it fancies folksy, all-American (or Canadian) lyrics and big string sections (not in the Spector/Wilson tradition, more like Lawrence Welk).

Fuck. You know what I mean.

But Kozelek himself always was bemused at all the indie referencing he DID get with the initial attention around the Red House Painters. He said himself he was very much a fan of Fogelberg, Paul Simon, John Denver, etc. straight up -- not to mention Kiss! -- and I think that can be very easily heard in his music. So I think you're doing him a disservice (and don't quite hear the "American Trilogy" approach you're outlining in the older singers, at least not as a constant) -- it would be more accurate to say that since Kozelek first came to attention via a very indie specific context (4AD and all), he was stuck with a label that Beck, Internationally Successful Superstar or whatever, does not have when he himself decided to make an album like this. Had Beck himself started that way, then his and Kozelek's situation could be similar.

As for one tribute album not making a movement, that fact that some noted indie bods participated on it says something, if not a whole hell of a lot. ;-)

But after 3-4 times of listening to this I found that it really sucks. Over-produced, a failed effort to redo Neil Young's Harvest. All those strings, just unbearable. And they weren't even as sickly sweet as on Harvest. Not sweet enough actually.

Maybe I am going to change my mind tomorrow. It all depends so much on the setting.

Fair enough, but Kozelek is the aberration -- he's one guy, he's not The Fickle Tastes of the Indie Scene.

and I think that can be very easily heard in his music.

It can be heard. But I hear Leonard Cohen even more. And LC has plenty more cachet with the indie kids than Fogelberg does.

it would be more accurate to say that since Kozelek first came to attention via a very indie specific context (4AD and all),

Well, 4AD does have a habit of putting out some pretty dreary music, so having Kozelek/RHP on their roster is not particularly shocking, no.

he was stuck with a label that Beck, Internationally Successful Superstar or whatever, does not have when he himself decided to make an album like this.

Beck is known for being chamelonlike, though. He's done his hip-hop/dance records, he's done a blues record, a Syd Barrett-like record... ya know. No one really knows what he's gonna do next, but the assumption is that it will garner some indie approval. I mean, a guy whose records have referenced Moog music and tropicalia stands the chance of impressing upon people that he's some sort of tastemaker, ahead of the mainstream curve.

Had Beck himself started that way

Beck DID have an association with the "anti-folk" movement when he was starting out. That's pretty "indie-specific."

As for one tribute album not making a movement, that fact that some noted indie bods participated on it says something, if not a whole hell of a lot. ;-)

I don't think it says a hell of a lot. A few years ago, ANYBODY would do a tribute album -- it was the thing to do, no matter who the artist was. But those records really didn't have much of a cultural impact, did they? (Except maybe the Carpenters one with Sonic Youth on it.)

Well, arguably so is Beck. ;-) So I think this has a lot to do with his perceived role as public figure and whether or not he can actually dictate certain trends (personally, I don't think so, at least not so broadly). The 'chameleon' reference makes me think of Bowie, natch, but I think the chief difference between the two is that at his own height in the seventies Bowie was working with things either still going or just happening and trying to guess what might be next where Beck indulges in the past, sometimes a distant one and sometimes a nearer one. Not a bad thing at all per se, merely a random observation.

As for tribute albums, this has less to do with 'cultural impact' and more with the fact that the influences you're saying his fanbase 'couldn't stand' were still being celebrated and appreciated by folks in some sort of indie context or another. So maybe I just need to back up -- are you drawing a distinction between Beck's fans and music lovers in general or...?

They were being celebrated by an extremely marginalized group, and that was already what, two or three years ago? But most of the people who bought that tribute album did so not out of a love for Denver (although I'm sure a couple did), but because their favorite band was asked to contribute a track. It could have been a Tony Orlando & Dawn tribute, it could have been a Mentors tribute -- they would have bought it anyway. If anyone became a big Denver fan as a result of that one release, it still didn't cause a "sea change" in the way the indie community (or youth culture in general) regards him. I don't even think that record sold very many copies.

Oh come on. Play Fogelberg or Denver or Little River Band or any of those guys in front of ANY music fan (especially the 35-and-unders) and see what kind of response you get. Do it. I dare you. Go stand in the middle of Bedford Ave. in Williamsburg in broad daylight, blasting "Longer." YOU WILL GET ROCKS AND BEER BOTTLES THROWN AT YOUR HEAD.

YOU WILL GET ROCKS AND BEER BOTTLES THROWN AT YOUR HEAD.

This is where my Trusty Assistant Clarke can do the job for me. ;-)

I hear you, Jody Beth, but aren't you kinda tilting the argument by picking tacky singer-songwriters? You could just as easily (and more accurately) compare him to arguably more adventurous songwriter types like Tim Buckley, Syd Barrett, Ray Davies, the aforementioned Skip Spence & Gainsbourg, Nillson, Randy Newman, John Prine, Johnny Cash, Emmitt Rhodes, Margo Guryan, Gordon Lightfoot, Bob Dylan, Carol King etc. and people might not feel as queasy. (still, good luck blasting any of these folks on the corner of Bedford Ave. in Williamsburg in broad daylight). And I might lose most of you here, but I think even "uncool" singa-songwriters like Jackson Browne, Paul Simon, Neil Diamond, Van Morrison, Cat Stevens and James Taylor wrote some great songs. I draw the line just to the left of Jim Croce, but I am admittedly an idiot. Just wanted to point out that saying is a bit damning by an association that's a bit of a stretch to begin with.

I am a Beck fan for many years and can see the direct lineage of the semi-sentient sentiment singer song writers. But see him more in line with Skip Spence (as mentioned above and as mentioned above his brilliant reintepretation of said Skp classic) when he does his acoustic movements.

Is the new album in line with Mutations however meeting Neil Young Harvest at a roadside stand before crashing out in the ditch again?

Or a reference to Sue Thompson's "Paper Tiger"? Or All's?

I hadn't heard this forever but 'lost cause' came on the radio in this cafe I'm in and I think it's great again.

I dunno wtf people were talking about 7 years ago w/r/t dan fogelberg tho.

(I will rep for dan fogelberg too btw)

I'm no massive Beck fan but the genuinely exhausted-sounding exhalation of breath at the end of Lost Cause is just great.

been listening to this just because of that jeremy blake video

I just checked it out at the library today to give it a re-listen after it appeared in Pfork's decade list. Midnight Vultures is my favorite, followed by Mutations. It's been harder to like him knowing he's a Scientologist.

Beck becomes Dan Fogelberg.

lol. So wrong. Great album.

Ick, never got this one. Heartbreak cliches sung in the mopey deadpan of a guy who deserves to be dumped. Do people really love string sections this much?

Do people really love string sections this much?

Yes they do. Round The Bend is pretty amazing as River Man rewrites go.

I always liked this, great evening music and especially great evening WORKING music for late-nighters. Maybe a bit same-y but that's okay. Favorite remains "Sunday Sun" although "Lost Cause" is the hookiest. It's a good record, not sure why it gets so much hate when there's plenty of other, worse stuff trying to pull the same heartstrings.

Your sorry eyes/cut through bone/they make it hard/to leave you alone

What a crushing line. That's also one of my favorite of Beck's videos, esp the part where the heart bursts out of the chest and it's a weird deflating Beck balloon face looking so sad.

is that what you thought love was for?