The OED defines punk rock as...

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..."A loud, fast-moving style of rock music characterized by aggressive and deliberately outrageous lyrics and performance."

Accurate, or inaccurate? If the latter, how would YOU define it?

― Michael Daddino, Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:14 (twenty-three years ago)

id rather try to define what is obscene... besides that definition only attempts to define one facet of 'punk' - what does "agressive" and "deliberately outrageous" mean (esp. to a stodgy Brit?)-

I wouldnt try to define it...

but perhaps you can define EMO for me;)

― insectifly, Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:19 (twenty-three years ago)

aka glam, aka nu-metal, aka Adam Ant. Or something.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:19 (twenty-three years ago)

They forgot to mention that it was mainly guitar-based cockery, and FUNDAMENTALLY CONVENTIONAL.

― Ray M (rdmanston), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:21 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think you can define punk rock in one sentence. It has too much 'baggage' in there I think.

It would also be too easy to think its just about the sound as well.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:24 (twenty-three years ago)

so what is the OED?
i don't agree at all. as far as i'm concerned, josef k was punk, orange juice was punk, the pastels are punk, beat happening were punk... it's not all about noise and outrageous lyrics (not only).
punk is an attitude, not a sound.
but well, you can just stick to green day or blink 182...

― joan vich (joan vich), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:29 (twenty-three years ago)

"our unabashed dictionary defines i.u.d. as 'love springs internal.'"

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:40 (twenty-three years ago)

so what is the OED?

The Oxford English Dictionary -- the gold standard of dictionaries. It's big and sexy and blue, if memory serves.

Incidentally, they cite a 1971 Dave Marsh review of a ? and the Mysterians show when giving examples of proper usage.

I'm tempted to post some of the other music-related definitions for a hoot and a holler.

― Michael Daddino, Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:46 (twenty-three years ago)

Punk is such a complex term that the OED shouldn't attempt to define it?

― DeRayMi, Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:47 (twenty-three years ago)

punk is an attitude, not a sound.

Yes, and in 1978 that attitude seemed pretty well exemplified by luddite Clash fans bottling Suicide off stage.

― Ray M (rdmanston), Thursday, 22 August 2002 16:52 (twenty-three years ago)

I'll tell you about punk rock: punk rock is a word used by dillitante's and ah... and ah... heartless manipulators...

― Leee, Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:08 (twenty-three years ago)

The Punk that can be Defined is not the True Punk.

― Lord Custos Alpha (Lord Custos Alpha), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:16 (twenty-three years ago)

It's big and sexy and blue
Uhhhhhh....how can a dictionary be "sexy"?

― Lord Custos Alpha (Lord Custos Alpha), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:17 (twenty-three years ago)

What, you're saying words can't be sexy?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:18 (twenty-three years ago)

"What, you're saying words can't be sexy?"

oh yes they are...and they dont talk back either ;)

― insectifly, Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Dictionaries are inherently sexy.

Well, OK, not those trashy mass-market "collegiate" dictionaries that aren't worth the paper they're printed on. But a well-made unabridged? Rrrrowr! And even the Scrabble dictionary has a certain flirtsy charm about it.

(Atlases, however, might be even sexier than dictionaries.)

― Chris Piuma, Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:40 (twenty-three years ago)

oh yes they are...and they dont talk back either ;)

Dammit. *cries*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Please. The definition is fine. I didn't see any reference to "obscene" anywhere (to Insectifly), and while you could certainly broaden the definition plenty, it's sound enough for dilletantes. It fits the Quincy definition of punk: enough to keep neophytes away.

― matt riedl (veal), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:49 (twenty-three years ago)

"i don't agree at all. as far as i'm concerned, josef k was punk, orange juice was punk, the pastels are punk, beat happening were punk... it's not all about noise and outrageous lyrics (not only)."

Yes, but that's as far as you're concerned. I think you're wrong, but that's as far as I'm concerned. Once again, we're plunged into interpretation. If I said that, as far as I'm concerned, the Knack were punk, would I expect the OED to mind me?

― matt riedl (veal), Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Ned: What, you're saying words can't be sexy?

No, Ned. I never said words aren't sexy. (I think alot of of soft-edged feminine sounding words can be quite...um...stirring in the right context. Especially if its a woman saying them.)
My flippant remark about "Uhhhhhh....how can a dictionary be 'sexy'?" was because I associate dictionaries with the (cold | dry | academic) rather than the more arousing (warm | moist | exciting)
Chris: Dictionaries are inherently sexy.
Explain...
Well, OK, not those trashy mass-market "collegiate" dictionaries that aren't worth the paper they're printed on. But a well-made unabridged? Rrrrowr! And even the Scrabble dictionary has a certain flirtsy charm about it.
Ummmmm...
(Atlases, however, might be even sexier than dictionaries.)
Okay...that I can agree with.
[ISAAC HAYES VOICE] All those hot, lower latitudes with their hidden, fragrant, steamy inlets! Oooooouuuuhhhhh....yeahhhhh...Baby [/ISAAC HAYES VOICE]

― Lord Custos Alpha (Lord Custos Alpha), Thursday, 22 August 2002 18:34 (twenty-three years ago)

" I didn't see any reference to "obscene" anywhere (to Insectifly)"

Sorry veiled reference about pornography actually-

the famous comment by Justice Potter Stewart- who couldnt define it "but "knew it when he saw it"

― insectifly, Thursday, 22 August 2002 18:42 (twenty-three years ago)

"I didn't see any reference to "obscene" anywhere (to Insectifly)"
Sorry veiled reference about pornography actually-
the famous comment by Justice Potter Stewart- who couldnt define it "but "knew it when he saw it"

Or as Tom Lehrer once wisely noted: "When Correctly Viewed / Everything is Lewd / I could tell you things about 'Peter Pan' / and 'The Wizard of Oz' was a dirty old man..."

― Lord Custos Alpha (Lord Custos Alpha), Thursday, 22 August 2002 18:53 (twenty-three years ago)

If I said that, as far as I'm concerned, the Knack were punk, would I expect the OED to mind me?

++ as you said, that's as far as i'm concerned.
but in a way, the truth in music definitions is MY truth, since everyone has their own vision about it, and in my case (and i guess many others on this board) it's a deep and thought of own vision.
as far as i'm concerned, punk-rock and its attitude changed my life and my approach to the music, so i didn't agree with the definition.
then again, it's not that bad for such a serious dictionary.
oh, and don't tell me you think the knack were punk. american fm one hit wonders they were (my sharona rules, though).

― joan vich (joan vich), Friday, 23 August 2002 07:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Incidentally, they cite a 1971 Dave Marsh review of a ? and the Mysterians show when giving examples of proper usage.

It would be incredibly cool if the OED entry for "punk rock" appeared in the 1972 edition, thereby getting the jump on everybody (except, I suppose, Dave Marsh).

― nickn, Friday, 23 August 2002 19:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Surely punk is the attitude, and punk rock is a sound?

― Graham (graham), Friday, 23 August 2002 21:07 (twenty-three years ago)

they shd have a teeny little photo of pink

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 August 2002 22:04 (twenty-three years ago)

pink? why?

― Lord Custos Alpha (Lord Custos Alpha), Saturday, 24 August 2002 18:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Because Pink = punk, as Mr. S. is fond of saying.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 August 2002 01:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Hmmmm. Does Pink == ("Punk Attiude" != "Punk SOUND") within early 21st century dance-pop?

― Lord Custos Alpha (Lord Custos Alpha), Monday, 26 August 2002 13:29 (twenty-three years ago)

pink = punk as prior defn of same for the entire universe outside time itself

the guitar sound is merely so-named by analogous back-formation

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 26 August 2002 13:34 (twenty-three years ago)

ummmm....mark s....can I have some of whatever you're smoking?

― Lord Custos Alpha (Lord Custos Alpha), Monday, 26 August 2002 14:14 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm smoking in ANY jacket

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 26 August 2002 14:17 (twenty-three years ago)

man

― s, Thursday, 29 August 2002 13:40 (twenty-three years ago)

FUNDAMENTALLY CONVENTIONAL.

Mistaken punk for hardcore or emo.

I said it. waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 29 August 2002 13:52 (twenty-three years ago)

three months pass...

I AME TO THIS WEBSITE HINKING THAT i WAS GOING TO E ABLE TO VIEW AND READ DEFINITIONS FROM THE OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY

― Jhazmyn, Thursday, 19 December 2002 21:34 (twenty-three years ago)

SORRY BOUT THAT

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 19 December 2002 21:39 (twenty-three years ago)

google-wraiths

― gygax!, Thursday, 19 December 2002 21:43 (twenty-three years ago)

six years pass...

It occurred to me, after reading the latest Frank Rich column, that "punk" as a verb should probably be in the dictionary by now.

― jaymc, Sunday, 9 August 2009 17:31 (sixteen years ago)

irrelevant to the revive, but my Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary (© 1963) defines "rock 'n' roll" as "jazz characterized by a strong beat and much repetition often with both blues and folk song elements." I've always found this adorable for some reason.

― waltzing ma~ (unregistered), Sunday, 9 August 2009 17:55 (sixteen years ago)

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