Why are music critics afraid of writing about love?

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I think more reviews should be about lovesongs, being in love, music as it relates to love, or constructed as avoidance strategies to get around the emotion of love.

Or wanting things if not people (but then things tend to be standins for people -- at least for those in a position to be writing about music).

Why do critics write about the music itself and not the reason we need it, or what it tells us we need? And all that aside, when songs are about love, why do they hold that at a distance to tell us about the stage of career of the artist and all the backstory bleh instead of examining the complexity of what the artist feels and expresses in a more universal sense?

This from reading the latest set of villagevoice reviews, which Xagu on Travis partially aside (because I rilly like "Forever and Ever, Amen" mainly) feel like they're telling me things I don't care to know. Also from this odd review of Moby in stylusmag.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 23 August 2002 03:40 (twenty-three years ago)

sterling where does music as it relates to the writers "love" (being in/falling out of/object of/etc.) fall in yr scale: as a positive or a negative?

(asked after realizing tonite after my last blog entry - possibly my last blog entry in a true sense - that everything i write (at least in the last two years) has related in some way or another to the love of another person.)

jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 23 August 2002 03:51 (twenty-three years ago)

(also, totally unrelated, did you get my email? i wasn't sure if had gotten the address right.)

jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 23 August 2002 03:53 (twenty-three years ago)

some way or another directly, of course, before someone comes in and gets all "all human expression relates to love at some degree" on me.

jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 23 August 2002 03:54 (twenty-three years ago)

Good thing, I think, as long as it doesn't dominate the music but augment it. All my best things, I think, have been driven by emotional attitudes such as you describe at some level, though mainly for people who would never see them. Which somehow relates to this being one of my favorite threads still. (And the only one google returns for "riot grrl slash").

But mainly I wanted the question to focus even on why writers are so loath to deal with songs all about love by talking about love. Or more broadly, treat music made for and used for relating to people as though it were for itself. Somewhere the notion of artistic "expression" went out the window and audience "reception" didn't enter back in and people just think about the market instead, like a bad parody of Adorno who at least saw people stultified by culture.

Eddy solves this, sometimes, by favoring writers often who can write about themselves (and he does too, though he denies it). And when he does the rockboys (dirty funk boys?) jump on them for who they are or even who they were. I don't know if this is an insoluble crisis or if the only answer is to be deeply dippy about everything and turn into a feh - hippie or emo kid.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 23 August 2002 04:26 (twenty-three years ago)

It's not a bad thing to write about the sound of the music, even if an article isn't a short consumer guide review; I have a lot of respect for writers who can work in great descriptions of what the songs actually sound like, because it's difficult to do, and if it's a band I've never heard, it's useful to know a least vaguely what's being discussed.

That said, I really like reviews that function like big analogies - if they can get you to read a description of a place or something else in their head, and then if they tie it together in a way that makes me want to go listen to the song, I'm happy. So why love songs? Why wouldn't writing about any kind of song- as long as you feel that the reviewer has actually heard what they're writing about & can pass that along to you- be just the same?

lyra (lyra), Friday, 23 August 2002 04:34 (twenty-three years ago)

I would guess it has to do with the constant war against cliche for writers. Love was done to death by the Romantics*, so now we poke fun at it, deconstruct it, avoid direct contact with it at any cost.


* = this is a massive generalization.

bnw (bnw), Friday, 23 August 2002 04:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Everything's been done to death in that sense. I don't think love is particularly privileged here.

lyra (lyra), Friday, 23 August 2002 04:39 (twenty-three years ago)

And I'm not trying to sound really grumpy here, so apologies for the curtness above, which I didn't intend.

lyra (lyra), Friday, 23 August 2002 04:47 (twenty-three years ago)

You talk about love by renaming it wuv, luv or lurve. You then extrapolate.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 23 August 2002 05:10 (twenty-three years ago)

it's hard to get it in sync sterl: feeling in love and writing about it. usually we're scared.

Josh (Josh), Friday, 23 August 2002 05:26 (twenty-three years ago)

lyra, LYRA, you MUST read this cool ryan adams thing some dude wrote on a website called Shazam! MUST.

david h (david h), Friday, 23 August 2002 05:48 (twenty-three years ago)

and, poss. also sterling, maybe... i'm still scared from him... *coy*

david h (david h), Friday, 23 August 2002 05:48 (twenty-three years ago)

here and the bit where he ties it all back up

david h (david h), Friday, 23 August 2002 05:51 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think love is particularly privileged here.

You've gotta be kidding. Society is so obsessed with romantic love that to be without it is practically a crime. Love is such a cliche, it is cliche to call it a cliche.

bnw (bnw), Friday, 23 August 2002 06:07 (twenty-three years ago)

i think the problem is that when a writer decides to write about love (when reviewing a record about love), the usual approach is to write about his/her own experience. it's hard to avoid personal comments.
and i'm sure writers are too cool as to show their weaknesses in such a broad way.
i've found writers who can really move me when writing about love, and others that just sound fake or self-indulgent. it's a thin line between love and ridicule.

joan vich (joan vich), Friday, 23 August 2002 08:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Sterling: this is the most interesting poser I have yet seen on ilm (aside from Ray M's vital and inspiring question on Supercalifragilisticexpealidocious) so a hearty slap to the back.

That said, I am loathe to chime in with my usual bullshit since I am scared at what some of the people on here might come up with.

What the hell...

Love, as a tangible and intangible concept is easilly the most vital aspect to human existence. A cliche? Yes, but then also no, as well as yes again - as anyone who has been in love would realise. Love, in all its myriad forms, incarnations and degrees is not something to run from, airbrush or skip over - it should be celebrated, endorsed and embraced.

Music critics may be lumped with the rest of western civilisation when it comes to skirting the issue of discussing and investigating the issue of love. Why? Beacause we can no longer see past surface perhaps, or are deluged by the facile - we fetishise the mundane - the issue of 'cool' too is of note; love aint cool, cool is about detachment and love is about drowning I guess... This one could run and run man.

"Why do critics write about the music itself and not the reason we need it, or what it tells us we need?"

Don't want to get sidetracked here Sterling so sticking to the issue of love, well, it's a minefield huh. I'm coming across like an idiot right now because of what I'm saying here, and yet I believe that love and human understanding of love is intrinsic to us all.

I think I'll shut up now and see what the rest of yer say - but thank you Sterling.

Roger Fascist, Friday, 23 August 2002 08:21 (twenty-three years ago)

I could write about music or I could write about love but mixing the two is difficult for me because the emotions that music inspire in me generally feel very different to love in all its types. The most common strong emotion I get out of music is probably an inarticulate longing for something that is both unattainable and formless (longing for its own sake?). Thus the few times I've written about music and love have been predicated in the notion of love as something distinct from reality. Love in this sense is perhaps not even the *point*, but merely a recognisable manifestation of it.

In contrast to that, I've been in a great relationship for two years and I can't think of a single song which i associate with my boyfriend for anything other than coincidental reasons or because he likes/dislikes it. I know that's not what you're asking for Sterling, but since being in a relationship obviates the need stuff like the article I linked to, it leaves little to inspire me.

Ha ha Sterling anyway if you want more writing about love why don't *you* do it you lazy fuck. ;-)

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 23 August 2002 08:29 (twenty-three years ago)

but are you sure that writers do not write about love?
maybe they do it with distance, but i've read many reviews that avoid the personal implication but talk about the universal feelings that we can all relate to.
as a matter of fact, whenever you've had a failed relationship, you've always found more help and rest and solace in a few songs that were talking about YOU and your life, than in the words of any of your well-intentioned friends. we all live the same situations, we all go through the same extreme feelings, there's a lot of music that catches this universal thing, and some writers happen to write about it without looking stupid.

joan vich (joan vich), Friday, 23 August 2002 08:56 (twenty-three years ago)

this thread is already being hijacked and-or stratified away from some of the things it could also be about viz


i. it is a band = it is a polyamorous gang-bang
ii. julia lennon (or equiv): also know as "who is the bez in yr marriage?"
iii. l.reed hearts j.cale (and similar IN EVERY COLLECTIVE)
iv. star: "i fucked the audience they were gagging for it" => audience: "star is so tripping the gagging was directed quite crosswise to that so ner"
vi. "i love everything so why do i hate [insert trivial nodepoint of flaring disagreement]
vii. "we don't talk any more"

mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 August 2002 09:24 (twenty-three years ago)

viii: "your poem killed my thread"

mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 August 2002 11:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Mark: I'm still trying to wrap my head around your little list there - perhaps other people are trying to do the same.

Roger Fascist, Friday, 23 August 2002 11:05 (twenty-three years ago)


Why? Beacause we can no longer see past surface perhaps, or are deluged by the facile - we fetishise the mundane

i think roger is otm here

for me, *real* love in all forms (the impact, the glories, the loss) results in a disarming of defences, a loss of overly-fetishized 'perspective' or (worse) 'critical distance'. when i am at my worst (or best) in love, i rarely have the words, and when i do, i have a stifling fear that they are too overwhelmingly facile or compromised to carry any real weight or value

perhaps i'm just a glutton for punishment, but i've been meaning to start a thread DEFENDING my love for the new coldplay rekkid (*ducks*) on these very terms. i've gone through some heavy shit over the past few months, and during that time, the only thing that my muddled and dumbstruck heart wanted to hear were chris martin's dumbstruck idiosms (ie: "the truth is, i miss you", "come back and sing to me" etc) because THATS HOW *I* FELT.

felt. (see? distance = perspective = i know its wrong but it felt so right!)

mark p (Mark P), Friday, 23 August 2002 13:21 (twenty-three years ago)

''I think more reviews should be about lovesongs, being in love, music as it relates to love, or constructed as avoidance strategies to get around the emotion of love.''

I'd welcome those sort of reviews as I haven't seen any like that for a long time (though I can't remember seeing a review like that right now but I'm sure I've seen one).

The reason it doesn't happen is that it would be viewed as 'self-indulgent' to talk about it. Either that or they lack the imagination to do this in an interesting way.

Dealing with emotions is difficult in this cold world. Its far easier to talk about how recs fit in the scheme of things (scenes, new trends, more business like things like that).

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 23 August 2002 13:52 (twenty-three years ago)

I think writing about love (for a love song) is like writing about rebellion re: a protest song. This only works if you accept the "message of" or "need for" the song, and if you focus on these things in the review I wonder if you're still actually writing a "review" (perhaps it becomes the ever-maligned "think piece" at that point).

However, I do think that not enough of these kinds of pieces are writen for music rags. Perhaps there is a stigma of being a "fanboy" if you write from the point of view of acceptance first, analysis later.

dleone (dleone), Friday, 23 August 2002 13:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Ray M to thread please (always wanted to say that)

Roger Fascist, Friday, 23 August 2002 14:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Dammit Roger you're beginning to come on like some kind of stalker here..... but MAYBE THAT'S A KIND OF LOVE TOO.
(cough)

I actually was typing something for this hours ago, then flicked over to check the links Sterling had put in his question - when I came back all my bastardin text had disappeared. I took that as an Omen.
Then mark s's list appeared and I got one of me usual headaches.

My Victorian Dad Opinion : Our Culture is already obsessed with the representation, articulation and encouragement of Love, to an extent and in a manner that has made the expression and maybe even the experience of it somehow feel inevitably compromised and devalued. (I even find it difficult to avoid putting the word in inverted commas in this thread.)
Part of me agrees with Sterling - I read the Moby review he linked to and it seemed strangely empty, one step away from an 'it's about so much more than the music' attitude leading to 'I can't buy this album because the guy is bald'. But another part of me is absolutely fucking sick of the (seemingly inevitable) clichés used to express romantic idealised notions of what Love is 'supposed' to be like, and the emotional puritanism of 'one true love' that we get sprayed with every other day.
So I'd quite like a rest from the whole Love business (ha) - and probably the last thing I want to see at the moment is the language of Love starting to crop up in Music reviews.
(mark s I have vague bad memories once again of circa '81 NME-Morley writing about music in just this way, a way that Sterling might have liked, but which I found infuriating)

But maybe my attitude is just a result of exposure to too much crap culture and not enough proper clever and sensitive stuff - that's another thread, right? - or too narrow a focus, derived from inadequate personal experience (no kids). I don't know.

Ray M (rdmanston), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:04 (twenty-three years ago)

It is very very hard.

david h (david h), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Less hard to write about love than to actually write love, but still hard nonetheless, even for gifted writers.

david h (david h), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:18 (twenty-three years ago)

have you tried david?

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Frank Kogan recently wrote on another thread that certain words should be sent packing for a while - I sometimes think 'Love' is one of those words. It's one of the laziest catch-all terms in the language - maybe it should be struck off for a year just to force us to USE OTHER WORDS PLEASE

Ray M (rdmanston), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:22 (twenty-three years ago)

julio, yes. but I refuse to plug shazam! again, cos I've done it too much recently and people will think I'm a cum-swillin' whore.

david h (david h), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:29 (twenty-three years ago)

if you loved me you'd swallow david

mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:31 (twenty-three years ago)

(i was stuck working with an awful shrivel of a girl today, representative of everything that is wrong with my dying nation of rebirth and I'm in a foul mood, I am not, NOT swallowing - k?)

david h (david h), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:35 (twenty-three years ago)

and I just fucking cut my hand off, AGAIN! twice in two weeks, I gotta stop with the hand-capitation analogy (see: matthew 5:30)

david h (david h), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Perverts.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:37 (twenty-three years ago)

david- was that girl cute? give her to me and I'll take care of her.

''Perverts.''

ned- This is nothing to do w/me. it really isn't.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 23 August 2002 17:06 (twenty-three years ago)

no, she was dour and looked like she could make a lemon cry, staid and narrow-minded!

david h (david h), Friday, 23 August 2002 17:13 (twenty-three years ago)

david- you can have her then. good luck...

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 23 August 2002 17:17 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not sure how to write about love, since I don't think I've ever felt the emotion. And I sure as hell didn't love the Moby record- and maybe because (what you're getting at is that it's more about love issues than i realized in my review?) Moby is doing that I can't truly understand where he is coming from...which, I'll admit, is entirely possible.

Todd Burns, Saturday, 24 August 2002 05:30 (twenty-three years ago)

I think about 60% of the music criticism I've written has been about love, being in love, trying to be, trying not to be etc etc. To people who aren't me, though, it probably looks like 1%. Would more transparency improve the writing in question? I'm not sure.

Tom (Groke), Saturday, 24 August 2002 07:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Most criticism or review work is tomorrow's chip shop.

The readers are looking to be entertained and informed. If that includes some naval gazing from the writer fine, but lets not lose sight of the fact that it is not that important in the grand scheme of things.

More contempt for the reader is what I ask for. Writers that get the letter boxes of mags and papers overflowing.

Often, whatever the motivation, reviews are too pithy and neutral to really matter.

sonicred, Saturday, 24 August 2002 21:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Have you seen Camden Joy's writings? Lot about his relationship with his (ex) girlfriend in relation to what music he was listening to at the time, followed by numerous pay for phone sex calls accompanied by specific tracks... with in-depth examination of said tracks...

Mary (Mary), Monday, 26 August 2002 01:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Camden Joy is so excellent. His book about The Fall is perfect.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 26 August 2002 01:18 (twenty-three years ago)

seven months pass...
Good thread, Sterling. My two cents:

Take one of last coupla Yo la Tengo albums, for instance. Nevermind if you liked them or not. They are obviously about love, and yet the reviews mention this almost in passing, i.e. "beautifully describes the ups and downs" or something. But you see, that's because they're reviews.

I think a distinction can and should be drawn between record reviews and music writing. There's no place for a description of love in a review, as any such description is bound to get personal, if not downright purple. So the record is about love, okay, but you know about love. You've been in love. And your opinion of what such and such lyric or melody means is going to be based on your subjective experience of your own love. And... whatever. I could write 10,000 words about And then Nothing Turned Itself Inside Out, but they would all be relative to me and only me, and at that point, it's not a record review anymore.

Then there are those unafraid to be a little purple if necessary, and they do not write record reviews, and maybe they even know that. Even then it's a huge risk, because when love is the subject at hand, even the finest prose can barely scratch the surface of it. And there's no such thing anymore as "music poetry." (Go ahead... tell me there should be.)

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 03:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Sterling I smash your lute.

Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 03:52 (twenty-two years ago)

(I have the honor of having published that Camden Joy piece Mary praises upthread in my zine!)

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 04:49 (twenty-two years ago)

you know I would like it if review of the tatu record would maybe focus on how the chorus of 'all the things she said' totally captures the insatiable delirium of adolescent love instead of just going 'her her, teenage lesbian, her her' or 'outrage - teenage lesbians! someone's making money from this!'

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 04:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I tried :(

Cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 07:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Darcey Steinke's EMP paper about getting divorced, gaining control of her own stereo and creating her own relationship to rock was one of the bestest pieces of music writing of the last few years, and it was only tangentially about music. But she's an established novelist--a younger writer might not have tried to submit such a personal piece. Blogs and boards don't pay the rent, and writers can't really stray from the topic if they want keep their gigs. If it went wrong, you'd likely see a reaction--say, on ILM--like this: "What the fuck was all that about her first husband? She only spent, like, 100 words on Return of The Kappelburger! I could have done that...yadda yadda." I think there's love dispersed through a lot of critical writing, even if it's not in the subject header, because critics tend to the obsessive and romantic--why else would anyone do it?

Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 08:58 (twenty-two years ago)

SJF - do these EMP papers ever see the light of day? Where can I read them?

Cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 09:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Mary and Sterling are OTM re Camden Joy. His book "about" Liz Phair is the best book "about" rock I've read in the last five years. http://www.metroactive.com/papers/sfmetro/01.18.99/camdenjoy-9902.html

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 09:02 (twenty-two years ago)

The EMP pieces will be in a book, I'm told. I'm hoping Darcey's piece ends up in a magazine, though--it'd be perfect for a wide audience, and it's full of great one line ideas about music, within a personal framework. Really inspiring. (No, I don't have it--just working from notes and memory.)

Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 09:11 (twenty-two years ago)

ten months pass...
Yes, you should squeeze something about your emotional problems into everything you write. That's my philosophy.

Amity (Amity), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 07:44 (twenty-one years ago)


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