2000 Pazz & Jop

Was it really a decade ago that we were considering these albums as the best of the year? Yes it was...

Albums	
	
 1 OutKast: Stankonia (LaFace/Arista)
 2 PJ Harvey: Stories From the City, Stories From the Sea (Island/Def Jam)
 3 Radiohead: Kid A (Capitol)
 4 Eminem: The Marshall Mathers LP (Aftermath/Interscope)
 5 Shelby Lynne: I Am Shelby Lynne (Island)
 6 D'Angelo: Voodoo (Virgin)
 7 U2: All That You Can't Leave Behind (Interscope)
 8 Yo La Tengo: And Then Nothing Turned Itself Inside Out (Matador)
 9 Jill Scott: Who Is Jill Scott? Words and Sounds Vol. 1 (Hidden Beach)
10 Sleater-Kinney: All Hands on the Bad One (Kill Rock Stars)
11 Aimee Mann: Bachelor No. 2 (SuperEgo)
12 Travis: The Man Who (Epic)
13 Steve Earle: Transcendental Blues (E-Squared/Artemis)
14 Ghostface Killah: Supreme Clientele (Epic/Razor Sharp)
15 Erykah Badu: Mama's Gun (Motown)
16 Madonna: Music (Maverick/Warner Bros.)
17 The Go-Betweens: The Friends of Rachel Worth (Jetset)
18 Badly Drawn Boy: The Hour of Bewilderbeast (XL)
19 Steely Dan: Two Against Nature (Giant)
20 Jurassic 5: Quality Control (Interscope)
21 Marah: Kids in Philly (Artemis)
22 Common: Like Water for Chocolate (MCA)
23 At the Drive-In: Relationship of Command (Grand Royal)
24 Queens of the Stone Age: R (Interscope)
25 Sade: Lovers Rock (Epic)
26 Ryan Adams: Heartbreaker (Bloodshot)
27 Grandaddy: The Sophtware Slump (V2)
28 Le Tigre: Le Tigre (Mr.Lady)
29 Dr. Dre: Dr. Dre--2001 (Aftermath/Interscope)
30 Coldplay: Parachutes (Nettwerk America)
31 Merle Haggard: If I Could Only Fly (Anti-)
32 Billy Bragg & Wilco: Mermaid Avenue Vol. 2 (Elektra)
33 Sigur Ros: Agaetis Bryjun (Fatcat/Bubblecore)
34 Elliott Smith: Figure 8 (DreamWorks)
35 Dead Prez: Lets Get Free (Loud)
36 Neko Case & Her Boyfriends: Furnace Room Lullaby (Bloodshot)
37 Magnolia (Reprise)
38 Primal Scream: XTRMNTR (Astralwerks)
39 The Jayhawks: Smile (Columbia)
40 Talib Kweli & Hi Tek: Reflection Eternal (Rawkus)
Singles	
	
 1 OutKast: "Ms. Jackson" (LaFace/Arista)
 2 Eminem Featuring Dido: "Stan" (Aftermath/Interscope)
 3 OutKast: "B.O.B." (LaFace/Arista)
 4 U2: "Beautiful Day" (Interscope)
 5 Madonna: "Music" (Maverick/Warner Bros.)
 6 Nelly: "(Hot S**t) Country Grammar" (Universal)
 7 Eminem: "The Real Slim Shady" (Aftermath/Interscope)
 8 Mystikal: "Shake Ya Ass" (Jive)
 9 Destiny's Child: "Say My Name" (Columbia)
10 Aaliyah: "Try Again" (Blackground/Atlantic)
11 Macy Gray: "I Try" (Epic)
12 D'Angelo: "Untitled (How Does It Feel)" (Virgin)
13 Britney Spears: "Oops, I Did It Again" (Jive)
14 Coldplay: "Yellow" (Nettwerk America)
15 Jay-Z: "Big Pimpin'" (Roc-A-Fella)
16 Sisqo: "Thong Song" (Def Soul)
17 Common: "The Light" (MCA)
18 Erykah Badu: "Bag Lady" (MCA)
19 Destiny's Child: "Independent Women Part 1" (Columbia)
20 Jay-Z: "I Just Wanna Love U" (Roc-A-Fella)
   M.O.P.: "Ante Up" (Loud)
22 Bob Dylan: "Things Have Changed" (Columbia)
   David Gray: "Babylon" (ATO/RCA)
   'N Sync: "Bye Bye Bye" (Jive)
23 Baha Men: "Who Let the Dogs Out" (Artemis)
   De La Soul: "Oooh" (Tommy Boy)
   Radiohead: "Optimistic" (Capitol)
26 Dr. Dre Featuring Eminem: "Forgot About Dre" (Aftermath/Interscope)
   Queens of the Stone Age: "Feel Good Hit of the Summer" (Interscope)
28 Destiny's Child: "Jumpin' Jumpin'" (Columbia)
   No Doubt: "Simple Kind of Life" (Interscope)
30 DMX: "Party Up (Up in Here)" (Ruff Ryders/Def Jam)
31 Blink 182: "All the Small Things" (Interscope)
   Dead Prez: "Hip-Hop" (Loud)
   Bruce Springsteen: "American Skin" (Hard Drive)
34 Travis: "Why Does It Always Rain on Me" (Columbia)
35 Bloodhound Gang: "The Bad Touch" (Republic)
   Dixie Chicks: "Goobye Earl" (Monument)
   R. Kelly: "I Wish" (Jive)
   Lucy Pearl: "Dance Tonight" (Pookie)
   Sleater-Kinney: "You're No Rock n' Roll Fun" (Kill Rock Stars)
   3 Doors Down: "Kryptonite" (Republic)

http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/pnj/pjres00.php

I don't listen to that much of the above anymore... Either a bad year or I am bad. It is funny how far the Outkast disc fell in critical eyes (it is all the way down at #46 at Rate Your Music which shows contemporary views of past years). I am sure we all like 'Perdition City' better anyway, right? Wonder how many votes it got back then...

2000:

6 Nelly: "(Hot S**t) Country Grammar" (Universal)

2010:

http://i54.tinypic.com/2rc9yu1.jpg

You act as if that isn't explained by the gap in quality.

i listen to radio a lot & am well aware how bad "just a dream" is :-p

i think my roommate is the only person in the world who's still into that kweli album

3 Doors Down: "Kryptonite" (Republic)

blargh really

no worse than David Gray.

also, wtf @ Coldplay and Travis both beating Elliott Smith in the soft-rock sweepstales

reflection eternal is better than like water for chocolate imo

wow, so many of these albums and songs are really good. d'angelo and jill scott in the top 10 albums! mystikal, aaliyah, destiny's child, nelly, madonna, britney, jay-z, sisqo in the top 20 trax! WHAT HAPPENED.

Was it really a decade ago that we were considering these albums as the best of the year?

We?

RYM not really a good indication of where OutKast sits 10 years later imo

it comes in at #11 on Acclaimed Music, probably a better source

http://www.acclaimedmusic.net/Current/2000-09a.htm

wow, so many of these albums and songs are really good. d'angelo and jill scott in the top 10 albums! mystikal, aaliyah, destiny's child, nelly, madonna, britney, jay-z, sisqo in the top 20 trax! WHAT HAPPENED.

― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Wednesday, January 19, 2011 4:18 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark

2000 was one of those GREAT years for music...

stuff missing in the albums list: Quasimoto, White Stripes, Godspeed Your Black Emperor, High on Fire, Clinic, Acid Mothers Temple, Boris, The Fall...

The Acclaimed Music list for the 2000 alone (not 2000-2009) has Stankonia in second behind Kid A:

http://www.acclaimedmusic.net/Current/2000a.htm

Drugs A Money, I wouldnt exactly call the absence of any of those albums unexplainable or unexpected

Yeah, I dunno, I really don't think Outkast has slipped much critically at all.

The top twenty is one of the least embarrassing in recent memory.

The Shelby Lynne thing was always a bit mystifying to me.

And I actually like that album--but #5 of the year?

More mistifying than Travis??

Guess I understand about the Top 20 being unembarrassing compared to most recent years, but I still only really like a couple albums in it (compared to 1980, when I love almost all of them.)

mystifying, grrr.

It is neat that Hag actually placed for once, though. (His only time, right?)

weird year when the only two albums i really like on the album list - and could listen to anytime - are ghostface killah and go-betweens.

i would listen to shelby lynne and d'angelo albums if i had copies.

re Hag: "Wishing All These Old Things Were New" should have placed as a single, not the whole album though.

the queens of the stone age! i liked that one too. its really the only queens album that i liked a lot.

what albums on here do people still listen to? people here. on ilm. like, ones you still play semi-regularly.

i play stankonia but that's about it.

i always wondered if i should listen to that common album. should i?

I still play Stankonia and the Yo La Tengo.

whiney u better run, here comes the ilxor list breakdown

re Hag: "Wishing All These Old Things Were New" should have placed as a single, not the whole album

I kind of agree with this, except it's still one of the best albums up there.

own, still love & play at least 1-2x/year and can recall playing in 2010:

1 OutKast: Stankonia (LaFace/Arista)
2 PJ Harvey: Stories From the City, Stories From the Sea (Island/Def Jam)
3 Radiohead: Kid A (Capitol)
6 D'Angelo: Voodoo (Virgin)
9 Jill Scott: Who Is Jill Scott? Words and Sounds Vol. 1 (Hidden Beach)
14 Ghostface Killah: Supreme Clientele (Epic/Razor Sharp)
15 Erykah Badu: Mama's Gun (Motown)
24 Queens of the Stone Age: R (Interscope)
25 Sade: Lovers Rock (Epic)
29 Dr. Dre: Dr. Dre--2001 (Aftermath/Interscope)
38 Primal Scream: XTRMNTR (Astralwerks)

own, haven't played in foreverrrrr:

4 Eminem: The Marshall Mathers LP (Aftermath/Interscope)
8 Yo La Tengo: And Then Nothing Turned Itself Inside Out (Matador) <--- not a BAD record but i always pull out the shoegazy '90s stuff first
16 Madonna: Music (Maverick/Warner Bros.)
26 Ryan Adams: Heartbreaker (Bloodshot) <------ still think this is prob. great, but havent played it in a while due to general ryan adams embarrassing other albums/career moves/general falling off
40 Talib Kweli & Hi Tek: Reflection Eternal (Rawkus)

heard, don't care for:

7 U2: All That You Can't Leave Behind (Interscope)
10 Sleater-Kinney: All Hands on the Bad One (Kill Rock Stars)
22 Common: Like Water for Chocolate (MCA)
23 At the Drive-In: Relationship of Command (Grand Royal)
30 Coldplay: Parachutes (Nettwerk America)
32 Billy Bragg & Wilco: Mermaid Avenue Vol. 2 (Elektra)
33 Sigur Ros: Agaetis Bryjun (Fatcat/Bubblecore)
34 Elliott Smith: Figure 8 (DreamWorks)
36 Neko Case & Her Boyfriends: Furnace Room Lullaby (Bloodshot)

never heard full albums, either out of complete ignorance (ex. shelby lynne) or guessing from the singles that i'd not care for the albums (ex. travis):

5 Shelby Lynne: I Am Shelby Lynne (Island)
11 Aimee Mann: Bachelor No. 2 (SuperEgo)
12 Travis: The Man Who (Epic)
13 Steve Earle: Transcendental Blues (E-Squared/Artemis)
18 Badly Drawn Boy: The Hour of Bewilderbeast (XL)
19 Steely Dan: Two Against Nature (Giant)
20 Jurassic 5: Quality Control (Interscope)
21 Marah: Kids in Philly (Artemis)
27 Grandaddy: The Sophtware Slump (V2)
28 Le Tigre: Le Tigre (Mr.Lady)
31 Merle Haggard: If I Could Only Fly (Anti-)
35 Dead Prez: Lets Get Free (Loud)
37 Magnolia (Reprise)
39 The Jayhawks: Smile (Columbia)

love this band, will get around to hearing someday:

17 The Go-Betweens: The Friends of Rachel Worth (Jetset)

I play none of these albums even semi-regularly, haven't in years. Still own Outkast, Eminem, Haggard, maybe QOTSA (like their self-titled debut way more though -- actually I think R is on my better half's CD shelf), that's it. Eminem's album is easily my favorite of those, but I never feel the urge to put it on.

Album I'd be most curious about hearing again: Probably Jill Scott, which I kind of liked at the time. Then maybe Marah, which I didn't, but I'm more pub-rock now than I was then. Then maybe Primal Scream, which I sort of liked I guess. (But I'm not that curious about any of them.)

This thread has reminded me to sell that Travis album, which is the worst eyesore when I plow through my closet archives.

listened to Bachelor No. 2 recently and it's really held up well.

6 rap songs in the top 10... that has to be a record.

and all good ones!

the only single in the top twenty I don't want to hear again is U2's.

i was singing it in my head yesterday tbh

'92 had 6 rap songs too, but yeah, that's the highest #

I could listen to any of that top 20 right now except for Coldplay and Sisqo. What a fucking year for pop music

oh never mind: "Yellow" is vile.

"Thong Song" is a pretty dope weak link

I want to fucking live in the 1992 singles list

why would you not listen to sisqo

I mean, the Whiney aesthetic is basically:

1. Arrested Development: "Tennessee" (Chrysalis) 100
2. House of Pain: "Jump Around" (Tommy Boy) 40
6. Cypress Hill: "How I Could Just Kill a Man"/"The Phuncky Feel One" (Ruffhouse/Columbia) 26 *
7. Sir Mix-a-Lot: "Baby Got Back" (Def American) 25
11. L7: "Pretend We're Dead" (Slash) 20
12. TLC: "Ain't 2 Proud 2 Beg" (LaFace) 19
13. R.E.M.: "Drive" (Warner Bros.) 16
14. Das Efx: "They Want Efx" (EastWest) 15
15. Prince and the New Power Generation: "Sexy M.F." (Paisley Park/Warner Bros.) 15
Pete Rock & CL Smooth: "They Reminisce Over You (T.R.O.Y.)" (Elektra) 15
Wreckx-N-Effect: "Rump Shaker" (MCA) 15
20. Ministry: "Jesus Built My Hot Rod" (Sire/Warner Bros.) 13 *
Nirvana: "Lithium" (DGC) 13
Utah Saints: "Something Good" (London) 13

1992 is the most pop P&J singles poll - the whole top 10 reached #11 or higher on the Hot 100 (compared to this year, where only "Fuck You" was a top 10 hit)

I was almost going to proffer 1984, until I looked at it again.

84's close -- 2 rap songs from before rap's commercial dominance among eight songs that charted at #3 or higher

I love the Steve Earle disc, actually. And I play the QOTSA once in a while as well, a really good disc. And I do not own Le Tigre but I wish I did because I remember listening to it a lot when it came out when I worked at a record store.

Drugs A Money, I wouldnt exactly call the absence of any of those albums unexplainable or unexpected

right. my comment was supposed to be more like, "this is what got left off!" (which is probably how I should've worded it)

though admittedly eminem was a "has this dated as badly as i think it has" experiment

well, has it?

― ilxor, Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:17 PM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah but not in the usual way (or in a derogatory way) - it's not that the production sounds old-fashioned or anything, and it still sounds like a great work of art, it's more that it seems such a specific product of its time that it feels weird and almost irrelevant to listen to it now (which isn't the case for - well, for any of the other great music on this list)

The Real Slim Shady even more so. Difficult to think of a song that sounds more like 2000.

(Sorry, for some reason I thought you were talking about Stan there)

"the real slim shady" is the best example of it, absolutely.

yeah but not in the usual way (or in a derogatory way) - it's not that the production sounds old-fashioned or anything, and it still sounds like a great work of art, it's more that it seems such a specific product of its time that it feels weird and almost irrelevant to listen to it now (which isn't the case for - well, for any of the other great music on this list)

― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:07 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

a bit off subject, but: y'all get this vibe from Licensed to Ill too? Cause I do, with the exception that I actually was not listening to it in 86 (which is prolley why I never rated it)

i think hanging 'classic -- defining album of a generation' shit on marshal mathers lp has done it more harm than good. writers wanted a white rapper hero. he was a great fun rapper but the amount of prose expended going over what a genius he was is well in excess of any reasonable crit

yeah, i feel the same about license to ill, and i was listening to it in 86 (all the fucken time). some records are just instant time capsules. doesn't prevent me from going back and opening them up every once in a while.

i think it's pretty much Eminem's persona/schtick that's dated his work there, tho; the music still sounds great as ever.

xps

it's more that it seems such a specific product of its time that it feels weird and almost irrelevant to listen to it now

i honestly can't imagine a better reason TO listen to it

i've never heard licensed to ill but can imagine that feeling the same.

i guess what makes this notable is that i mostly don't hear it, even with albums that are victims to crit-hyperbole - i guess "baby one more time" is like this for me too, though.

O_O

writers wanted a white rapper hero. he was a great fun rapper but the amount of prose expended going over what a genius he was is well in excess of any reasonable crit

that may be true, but it seems irrelevant from this remove. looking back, i don't think of the ink that was spilled on it, but of the way the 13 year-old son of an (older) friend of mine used to listen to it constantly and bug the fuck out, and how much she HATED it, and how classic both the record and dynamic seemed to me. i spent a lot of time listening to it on my own, too, so my personal experience of it eclipses my memory of the cultural processing. weird that i can't do the same with nirvana and just get back to hearing nevermind like i did the first time.

i think it's pretty much Eminem's persona/schtick that's dated his work there, tho; the music still sounds great as ever.

think this is true - his persona drew its power from the way that the things that he talked about and railed against were so...relevant to the time. without the bite of that relevancy, there's not a great deal i get from listening to the album now.

i think it's pretty much Eminem's persona/schtick that's dated his work there, tho; the music still sounds great as ever.

Reference points as well. The kids of today probably have minimal idea who Fred Durst/Tom Green/Tommy Lee actually are.

haha i've no idea which bit of my post whiney's O_O was directed at

that you haven't heard Licensed To Ill?!

How are you still surprised at something like that?

oh right haha, i've never liked the beastie boys i've heard really, and they're before my time so i wasn't conscious of them as pop artists either

I can't possibly imagine your age/upbringing where you haven't heard like the most popular catalog album of all time. Or a hip-hop fan who hasn't heard what is like easy top 20 most important rap records ever.

Like, did you attend a COLLEGE at some point, maybe?

obviously i've heard "fight for your right to party", i really don't like it - cheesy student union anthems must die. i think of it as the same kind of song as, like, s club 7's "reach"

ha xp

Like i dunno, we're not talking some like "I never heard Joeski Love/Kid N Play/PM Dawn" before my time ish. Because LTI is like Dark Side Of The Moon or Bob Marley's Legend, where it's like sort of from everybody's time?

never heard either of those either

oh good, this conversation again

License to Ill isn't anywhere near as prominent in the UK as it is in the US. I don't think I heard it once when at university.

i have heard pm dawn tho! :D

we define ourselves at least as much by what we despise as what we embrace

is lex from the UK?

because i have no idea what the sitch is over there

okay I just now noticed your display name, 1000% like

hahahahaha

whiney didn't know i'm british?!?! that is the most shocking thing here i feel

you guys are a bunch of fuckin display names to me

good ones, sometimes

i think hanging 'classic -- defining album of a generation' shit on marshal mathers lp has done it more harm than good. writers wanted a white rapper hero. he was a great fun rapper but the amount of prose expended going over what a genius he was is well in excess of any reasonable crit

― *gets the power* (deej), Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:21 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

otm

Eminem was a big deal to a lot of people that I knew in 2000, that's why I would rate him now; not because of any kind of relevance to me now. it would be very weird to listen to now.

I'll still rep for "If I Had" off the first album as a great "Michigan-in-economic-decline" anthem

*what is like easy top 20 most important rap records ever.*

uh

i agree with the time capsule thing and eminem. kinda like listening to old comedy albums. lenny bruce talking about the john birch society and stuff like that. and i was also thinking last night about how i never need to hear old EM now even though i liked it then. its still good, but, yeah... its not just spice girls references. i dunno. i think you would feel kinda silly if you were cranking old eminem in your car for everyone to hear. or even stankonia. but i would crank destiny's child ANY time or any year in my car. but that's just me.

supreme clientele. you could blast that all day long in 2011 and people would probably run alongside your car just to listen to it.

well MMLP is very very adolescent, and if you are an adolescent, then it seems mind-blowing, like an entire universe of awesome shit!, but it's not a record to grow old with, that's for sure...

too juvenile for those who get the jokes
too dated for those who get the appeal

kinda why I brought up the Beasites actually

xp Supreme Clientele is freaking sweet!

its not just spice girls references. i dunno. i think you would feel kinda silly if you were cranking old eminem in your car for everyone to hear. or even stankonia. but i would crank destiny's child ANY time or any year in my car. but that's just me.

spice girls - they're another band i feel this way about.

and yeah i don't think i'll ever feel like that about destiny's child.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuOz7AcXZKI

uh

― *gets the power* (deej), Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:53 AM (59 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I know rap starts will Illmatic for you, but

lol @ whiney not knowing lex was british

Back when the critics still realized Coldplay were great. :)

(And Travis, however I don't understand what "The Man Who" is doing in a 2000 poll)

well, it's possible (however unlikely) that you're not american...

I vote on these songs!

Po-wer music, electric revival!