"the bez factor"

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

stolen from mark s on the ornette thread:

i think we also need to consider the "bez" factor tho = you choose ppl you can get on with in the tourbus, whose presence off-stage inspires you to play the way you want to onstage, and maybe their onstage work is actually less significant, even a bit wonky?

surely more of this goes on that is ever discussed (i mean, long before we get to the "x was allowed to play sackbut for y because he was buds w. a good dealer....")

this is obv true, but how much does it seep into the music being made, from a non-technical standpoint (yes, this guy is being kept around because he's got the good shit so of course his playing is crap but hey)? can it actually be said to have a direct effect on the music itself (not even - but not excluding - something as simple as "we wouldn't have written song X without Y being around")?

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:38 (twenty-three years ago)

in other words, have the career trajectories of certain bands/artists been driven by the less than spectacular contributions of their hangers on (except a downward spiral obv.)?

(first person to mention that monkey from the bosstones gets a sock in the snoot.)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, Martin Gore sez that Andy Fletcher acts as his sort of bullshit detector on whether or not a Depeche song works (and given how brilliant the band is, that's a good thing). Since Andy does nothing for the group beyond dance about awkwardly behind a keyboard he's not playing, we have a winner!

Then there's Wotjek from the Blue Aeroplances, who specifically was credited with dance and dance alone. By all accounts he was very much a part of the creative process...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:40 (twenty-three years ago)

alternately: what career trajectories of certain bands/artists been driven by the less than spectacular contributions of their hangers on and why?

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:41 (twenty-three years ago)

What, exactly, did Leeroy Thornhill do for (the) Prodigy as far as music is concerned? (Jim DeRogatis: "Played bass!")

― Nate Patrin, Friday, 23 August 2002 16:47 (twenty-three years ago)

well i think ringo is a good pop drummer, very simply but consistently and subtly inventive - but even those that don't have to deal with the fact that he was the amiable diplomat who kept the three prima donnas in the same studio, so that's an "effect"

mike love has popped up before now: not as glue but as motor-of-focused-ambition

marcello and i wd argue that coltrane is the bez in the coltrane quartet (eg his contribution is alllowing elvin jones to be elvin jones) but i guess we accept this is a non-mainstream position

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:48 (twenty-three years ago)

sorry to go on and on about them, but pavement is a shining example that most of the indie-guilters could find fitting to the above criteria.

― gygax!, Friday, 23 August 2002 16:49 (twenty-three years ago)

heidi of sugababes as focus of disdain giving sugababes an air of mardiness and bitchiness which affects how we perceive the music, so really affects the music itself (??)

― david h (david h), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:50 (twenty-three years ago)

and an air of something else, can't place it...

― david h (david h), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:50 (twenty-three years ago)

haha, new thread: "people who lie"

― david h (david h), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:52 (twenty-three years ago)

I still don't actually understand why you hate Coltrane, Mark. Aside from his pernicious "influence" on free jazz and the religious overtones to his music, that is. What about the actual playing tho?

― Ben Williams, Friday, 23 August 2002 16:52 (twenty-three years ago)

''marcello and i wd argue that coltrane is the bez in the coltrane quartet''

heh. when i met you i forgot to ask about coltrane damn it!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:54 (twenty-three years ago)

I know your take (well, sort of) but I wanted to hear you say this with a straight face (or a big grin, see that small gap between your two front teeth).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 23 August 2002 16:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Zia from the Dandy Warhols. Surely the hieght of musical talent is to be able to hold your jack and coke AND cigarette, hit the wrong notes on your moog and make your boobes bouncing/swirl in 2 different directions all at once.

Joel Gion on the other hand was the coolest part of Brian Jonestown Massacre. Stood dead centerstage, playing tamborine flicking cigarettes at audience members and looking like he may just fall over at any moment.

Didn't the NME list the top ten 'Bez's in a column a few years ago? Giving Linda Mcartney the #1 spot over Bez.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Friday, 23 August 2002 17:00 (twenty-three years ago)

pah, sugababes were far bitchier when the ginger one was still on board cos then all 3 wasters were on the same blank page. heidi's arrival= adds "professional" (ie smiling, caring) lack of edge = record industry compromise = enervates icy yet maddening impact of remaining 2 bitchez

sugababes had equal disdain for each other b4 split, thus heidi is far from a focus. watching her struggle to fit in with the other 2 is a diversion rather than an a further attraction

anyways, carry on

― bob zemko, Friday, 23 August 2002 17:03 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah actually i wz gunna write something about coltrane and john carpenter's the thing, but it'll have to wait, so *busk till ready, hepcats*

(heh this entire idea first came up on ilm because anthony did a "taking sides: yoko vs linda" and i wanted to prove you cd also defend linda)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 August 2002 17:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Cop-out!

― Ben Williams, Friday, 23 August 2002 17:05 (twenty-three years ago)

bob - looksee.

― david h (david h), Friday, 23 August 2002 17:06 (twenty-three years ago)

sid v. would be the ultimate "bez", right? the hanger on/"least talented" one who let johnny be the johnny that johnny wanted to be?

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Friday, 23 August 2002 17:08 (twenty-three years ago)

The Prodigy is an excellent example of this. What did Leeroy, Maxim and Keith have to do with the first two albums?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 23 August 2002 17:12 (twenty-three years ago)

guigsy and bonehead? jeff tweedy? (ouch!) ryan adams in whiskeytown? (ouchafuck!)

― david h (david h), Friday, 23 August 2002 17:15 (twenty-three years ago)

true fritz, but more than just that in sid's case: also allows one kind of punk ideologue (mclaren being this kind) to say "the pistols can't play but they matter" = "anyone can play and that's the point", when actually cook/jones COULD play, really well

also (related): band's chief fan steps up to be key member of band = allows another kind of punk ideologue to say "only the audience can create meaning"

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 August 2002 17:15 (twenty-three years ago)

mark s. writes:

also (related): band's chief fan steps up to be key member of band = allows another kind of punk ideologue to say "only the audience can create meaning"

henry rollins - black flag

ed fROMOHIO - fIREHOSE

both much weaker versions of their predecessors.

― gygax!, Friday, 23 August 2002 17:37 (twenty-three years ago)

but does sid actually play on any recordings? if not, they kinda had it both ways: the mythic "fan steps up to save band" thing without the messy "actually the fan stinks up the band" reality that gyax points out w/ regard to minutemen/firehose and black flag...though I still think Damaged is pretty damn good (could be argued that that's because it was from Rollins was still "doing" The Old Flag Singers rather than flexing his own muscles a hur hur)

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Friday, 23 August 2002 17:44 (twenty-three years ago)

the sex pistols are the TOTAL GALACTIC EMPERORS of having it both ways!!

i think the phrase "a kind of punk ideologue" signals a certain distance on my part from the positions being taken: in ordinary reality (as opposed, say, to the triffic world of HAIR METAL!!) the practice is plainly a disaster...

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 August 2002 17:54 (twenty-three years ago)

(haha mark s just remembered Rock Star or whatever it was called starring M Wahlberg)

― The Actual Mr. Jones (actual), Friday, 23 August 2002 17:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Rockstar is tremendous and anyone dissing it can spin on this *points at ceiling*

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 August 2002 17:58 (twenty-three years ago)

I want the mystical ability to spin on the ceiling, too! *pout*

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 23 August 2002 18:00 (twenty-three years ago)

apparently leeroy did play keyboards and some drums on occasion during live performances and studio recording sessions by the prodigy throughout the 90s...leeroy also released at least one anonymous EP as his own around 1993 tho thats unconfirmed - tho i did hear it and it wanst half bad euphoric rave fair.

obviously keith and maxim couldnt keep riding on liam's hard work for too long which is they the former cutr his hippy locks and started practising his Johnny Rotten impressions while Maxim made an attempt at a solo career (tho Liam produced much of the music for that also)

― blueski, Friday, 23 August 2002 20:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i remember now, Leeroy went under the name Longman

and of course he also launched a proper solo effort with Flightcrank mor recently - but this was a bit pants

cant see Bez doin his own stuff - but he was good as a makeshift tv presenter on 'The Sunday Show' a few years back

― blueski, Friday, 23 August 2002 20:03 (twenty-three years ago)

don't primal scream have each album attached, linked to their friend, their lifestyle of choice, with a different lifestyle for each album .... and didn't that get their special friend kevin shields out of permanent constipation (i mean, oh, just one more layer, one more day, uh ok ?)

the birthday party could never have made junkyard in Australia, no it was the thatcher economics => housing estates => rats

yeah getting back to the ornette, there was a time when the other 3/4 of his band all had their instruments in the pawn shop so they couldn't play not being geared up in the right way

led zeppelin, mull of kintyre, moose the mooche (royalties to "Moose" so Parker can make the session and actually play), aren't all musicians chasing white rabbits (chick-egg) ?

― george gosset (gegoss), Friday, 23 August 2002 20:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Bob "Maracas Boy", Pavement (though his arrival marked the decline of the band more than anything).

Ian Brown, naturally.

Wendy And Lisa, though they were muses more than bezzes.

Dr. Dre.

― Chris Ott, Friday, 23 August 2002 20:18 (twenty-three years ago)

"Rockstar is tremendous and anyone dissing it can spin on this *points at ceiling*" -- well I'm not Lionel Richie you know.

Hey what about D12?

― Nate Patrin, Friday, 23 August 2002 20:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Hey what about D12?

i was gonna suggest that actually but what has eminem done with d12 that he couldn't have done himself? if you expand the bez principle to include hip-hop posses then we'll be here all night

― mark p (Mark P), Friday, 23 August 2002 22:17 (twenty-three years ago)

ah fuck who's kidding who i'm here all night anyways

― mark p (Mark P), Friday, 23 August 2002 22:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Dr. Dre

chris, have you ever, you know, listened to any music?

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 23 August 2002 23:35 (twenty-three years ago)

unless of course you mean, ed lover and dr. dre. which is still kinda iffy.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 23 August 2002 23:39 (twenty-three years ago)

But Flava Flave, surely?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 23 August 2002 23:45 (twenty-three years ago)

flava flav's got problems of his own.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 23 August 2002 23:57 (twenty-three years ago)

I know you didn't just say Flavor Flav! Hello, "911 Is A Joke"? "Can't Do Nuthin' For Ya, Man"?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 24 August 2002 00:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Cold Lampin with Flavour and left speaker of Party For Your Right To Fight.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Saturday, 24 August 2002 00:29 (twenty-three years ago)

I know I spoke semi-ill of "Cold Lampin' With Flavor" on the greenspun ILM (how much cooler would he be BTW if he spelled it Flavour Flav?). But for his "YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAH BOYYYYYYYYYY"s alone he should be given Rap Legend status.

― Nate Patrin, Saturday, 24 August 2002 00:47 (twenty-three years ago)

OK this is almost for sure going to demand a separate thread on which we FITE THIS ONE TO THE DEATH but Flava Flav is like Bez cubed. Nate is correct about the "Yeaaaaahhh, Boyyyyyyy"s but otherwise:

Um lampin', um lampin', um cold cold lampin'
I got looies boy, I ain't trampin

Dear God make the nightmare STOP

Also the Other Guys in NWA -- MC Ren's rhymes are so weak they need an indwelling glucose drip with heplock an' shit

― J0hn Darn1elle, Saturday, 24 August 2002 01:46 (twenty-three years ago)

bah! next you're gonna say phife dawg was a Bez! Flava Flav was no Bez. Jerome from the time, on the other hand... now there was Bez.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 24 August 2002 03:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Jerome is the EPITOME of a Bez! His job was to hold a mirror up to Morris so that Morris could make kissy faces at himself. And WTF was up with him being in The Family??????

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 24 August 2002 13:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Bez Shmez. I wish there were more Einars in the world.

(And before I forget.. Fred from Hazel... Portland, OR)

― donut bitch, Saturday, 24 August 2002 20:02 (twenty-three years ago)

If someone has an excessive "Bez Factor" does that make him amazed an annoyed that "Japan is full of Chineese Guys"?

― Lord Custos Alpha (Lord Custos Alpha), Saturday, 24 August 2002 20:15 (twenty-three years ago)

A maybe more interesting qn - who NEEDS a Bez?

― Tom (Groke), Saturday, 24 August 2002 22:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Hm...would this be in a live context, in a video context, or just in the knowledge that there's someone there? Or all three?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 August 2002 01:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Flavour Flav? how about the security of the first world? or professor griff for that matter?

the ultimate bez is probably that large breasted lass who danced for Hawkwind. I feel dreadful i can't remeber her name, but she was bez before Linda Macartney was.

― threemetalinsects (threemetalinsects), Sunday, 25 August 2002 02:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Stacia.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 August 2002 03:32 (twenty-three years ago)

A maybe more interesting qn - who NEEDS a Bez?

Depends, Tom. How much is he going for?

― donut bitch, Sunday, 25 August 2002 05:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Lawrence Tolhurst formerly of the Cure was a Bez.

― mt, Monday, 26 August 2002 00:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Brcuce's Patti? Flavor Flav should have gone solo...

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 26 August 2002 00:55 (twenty-three years ago)

I will take the Richey James bullet. I needed some email, anyway.

― felicity (felicity), Monday, 26 August 2002 03:57 (twenty-three years ago)

I did think of Richey but then he wrote the lion's share of the lyrics, so does he really count?

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 26 August 2002 04:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Hmmm, true, but his non-musical contributions seem perhaps just as important.

― felicity (felicity), Monday, 26 August 2002 05:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Richey was Sid (self-mutilation, lack of musical talent), Lydon (blistering intelligence, way with words), Jones (relentless groupie-screwer), Cook (quiet one), and McLaren (ideologue and mastermind of band) all rolled into one!

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 26 August 2002 08:27 (twenty-three years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.