I Cannot Play An Instrument and I Cannot Drive A Car

Erm ... then again, by that logic, I know far more drivers who can't play instruments.

BUT!!! The musicians who cannot drive have a far greater appreciation of music than the drivers who cannot play.

Ergo ... lack of instrument far greater than lack of car, QED, the end.

I mean, what about the urban equivalent? Listening to CDs while on the tube/bus/public transport? Does that affect the way we listen to music? I find it doesn't, aside from the obvious headphones stereo thing, but I listen to all music on headphones, so that doesn't really affect.

Playing an instrument affected the way that I listened to music in SUCH an OVERWHELMING and total way that I don't really think that you can compare it to the driving/not driving thing.

I think the instrument thing is interesting though - I used to get terribly hung up on the composition of music from a tedious beat pattern/chord progression point of view. Now I find that, in terms of guitar music especially, I just don't care.

Having heard enough music in cars over the years, there is to be sure certain joy -- this ranges from our family trying to find a Top 40 station everywhere we went will driving across the USA (twice!) to Brian making tapes of Neu! to listen to on the way to a radio conference in San Francisco. So for me it's almost a fun, contextual appreciation of something that happens every so often.

a few days later: "jess, i listened to nelly for the first time driving last night and i finally 'got' it."

(ironically, i also remember us having a similar discussion about the avalanches a year ago.)

in other words, tom, i am firmly convinced that some music sounds better while driving (or at least moving), but i'm too hungover to offer any reasons why this might concievably be. beats, bass, moving wheels, different sound system setup than yr home stereo, blah blah...

I don't know if this goes any way to answering the question though. I just started musing.

And technical skill is all very well, but I tend to think of pop music alongside most Modern art, where technical skill is often not at all the point (and those trying to argue for Picasso on the basis that he was technically masterly when still in his teens are really missing the point). It can be valuable - I adore Art Tatum, and I can't imagine there have been many more gifted and skilled musicians in the 20th Century - but it's mostly irrelevant.

honestly i don't see any relation of driving a car and appreciating music. to appreciate music in a car you don't have to drive the thing.

on the other hand it's nice to drive on a german autobahn with 180 km/h and listen to something like thin white rope. not that i feel superior to the others driving and blocking my way but there definitely is music which makes me like to drive long distances fast more than other music. music with a thrill.

and after you master those you can try the intermediate level:
1) Plug one end in the amp and the other into the wa-wa pedal then plug the chord coming from the pedal into the instrument
2) If you add your speed plus the angle of the turn and it adds up to more than 100 you're going too fast.

The finally, you can master these:
1) Mozart
2) The Indy 500

All you need is self confidence and practice.

It's all about accelerating out of the curves- centrifugal force is no match for a gas pedal.

It does. It also sounds great played nice and loud while threading one's way through heavy traffic (mostly pedestrians) in snooty New Hope, PA.

and tom, I think if you're used to riding in a car that's pretty much the same as driving one. maybe there are some small things you miss out on, though. the experience of monotony that can come from driving feels different than that of riding. it seems sort of similar to other kinds of monotony, though. and the physical feel of being in the driver's seat, having all kinds of extra knowledge about where the car is going and when, is something that I just don't feel being a passenger. (actually, this past year all my roommates and I have driven my roommate's jeep, and we've all felt noticeably more knocked around, less in control, when passengers.) the effects this might have on hearing music seem real to me, but subtle - I'm not sure how to explain them at the moment.

i believe this acceleration leads to centripetal force increase

That said, I think modern art is more analogous to modern art music. I'm also not 100% convinced that most pop is all that advanced in terms of timbral variation, especially as one gets closer to the mainstream. Popular music academics take that tack sometimes but it sometimes seems to me to be trying too hard to rationalize liking something that is simple in technical musical terms and is in part appealing because it is simple. I think it might be more fruitful to look at pop in terms of how it plays with symbols, associations, memory, and context - and how it relies on and plays with (and thus requires) simple, easily recognizable musical gestures to communicate and represent these.

As far as the original question goes though, I think Josh is right in that learning an instrument will add one more aspect to the way one listens. After all any life experience is part of what a listener brings to a piece of music.

I was not in any sense trying to suggest a lack of worth in abstract painting, for instance - it's my favourite kind. But the 'they can't even draw properly' dumb criticism seemed to me directly analogous to what an ELP fan might have said about punk - or might say now about El-P (do you see what I did there?), and any evidence that Rothko or Mondrian could draw really well or that Sid Vicious was a classically trained violinist would have been an utterly misguided defence.

- intervals and harmonies
- rhythmic and melodic patterns
- the different instruments and strands within the music
- different timbres and tonal qualities

You could get similar effects by working with music on computers or working with ear training software.

That you hear things differently is bound to affect your response to music. How it would affect your taste is pretty hard to predict.

Driving a car helps with heavy metal, hip-hop, and country music.

the thing I hate about people who drive cars is they seem to think it's impossible for us non-drivers to use public transport and thus insist on driving us everywhere.

well, my parents and brother in law do anyway.

What's funny is that you can say the same thing about, let's say, a kick-kick-kick 808 program and dancing: you're hearing just a repeated sound, but both are indicating this really pleasurable body movement and a whole atmosphere around that. Sometimes when someone says of either that they're just simple and boring static repetition, I wonder if they just don't mentally connect the sound to the movement.

CAR: driving makes a big difference, although it sure didn't help me with "Hot in Herre." Nelly just sounds too much like an old woman for my tastes -- like my aunt's late mother in particular -- and I keep expecting him to offer me some cornbread and then hold forth about the kids these days with their pants all hanging down their butts like nappy-headed little fools. Err but yeah, driving creates a pretty different and pretty great listening environment