Where are the silly/surreal popstars with their silly/surreal lyrics?

Not so much surreal as sublime - in my opinion

One thread on YHF and another one.

RAP

good point about Flaming Lips tho - just their new album title alone at least suggests they're at least attempting to match the lunatic mantle of Japanese acts who specialise in psychedelic rock n' roll oddness - sure the Lips also write fine sensible material but its this surreal aspect that i think made the charts more interesting in the past and its sadly lacking these days

eiffel 65 and that 'fish' thing were pretty weak attempts, too gimmicky - i like the idea that the surrealism is not actually the main aspect of the artist, its something buried deeper within their music/words.

it's too easy to remember older music you know/knew well and (perhaps) quibble about how surrealistic or whatever it was, when the arts/acts of memory, music and drugs were conspiring to make it what you call it now and maybe provide a surrealistic reflection in the looking glass, depending on how seriously or vainly you face up with those categorical words

i think that devo and t.heads stood out back then simply because those economics and business metrics of how many pop stars have we were quite differently rationed ie numerically 1/100 the bands available to the mass ear that tech. developements makes available to us today -- the good ones are out there, but we need filters, of which this board is one i suppose

BECK.

Mercury Rev though might be the surrealist I can think of, but coming from Upstate New York thats almost Canadian as well.

Also, do Ween count for nothing? What ever happened to Elvis Hitler, Dread Zeppelin, Buckethead and Jimmys Chicken Shack? Doesn't The Jon Spencer Blues Explosion almost qualify as parody?

Think I'll go listen to Boces now that you/me mentioned it.

i don't think any of the artists mentioned in this thread, except beck and odb, have gotten into any recent chart that isn't cmj-sanctioned. i mean, shit, they might be giants haven't charted in years, even though 'man it's so loud in here' was one of the best singles of 2001.

is the ever-increasing professionalization of pop -- both at the artist level, where young girls are training to be mariah from age 7, and at the clear channel stranglehold level -- resulting in this sort of lyrical/sonic whimsy (the two generally do go hand in hand, no?) being kicked to the curb?

I'm surprised no-one mentioned Bjork if we're talking Beck and the like either, once again I notice that every example cited is American. So it would appear they outstrip their global counterparts even in the surreal stakes? surely not! i'm sure there's a lot of mentalist lyricists from mainland Europe we've not even touched on/heard of....and if you listen to some of the songs performed at Eurovision then that might just balance things up a bit...

Slight diversion from the original question - but where are our Chirpy Chirpy Cheap Cheaps, Mouldy Old Doughs and Agadoos? Where's our Popcorn and our Birdy Song? Tracks that don't really fit into any genre but are no doubt silly and get dug out all the time at parties. Tracks that are self-contained novelties without relying on some kind of marketinf gimmick e.g. Power Rangers, Teletubbies, Mr Blobby etc?

Someone mentioned The Automatic, but I'd say that's just Britrock with slightly-bettermore-interesting-than-average lyrics.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41142000/jpg/_41142552_crazyfrog203body.jpg

How about Black Eyed Peas? That band is a joke. Lady Lumps? There's only one reaction I get when I hear that, which is embarassment. I'm embarrased for the band, and I'm embarrased for my culture. and I worry that foreigners might be listening. No wonder US- international relations are at an all-time low.

or Gwen Stefani, trying to cop Missy Eliott's style and getting it as wrong as a white girl from Anaheim possibly could, shouting about how 'the shit is bananas!'

Although I wouldn't call either of these acts 'delightfully daft'.

http://www.wrongway.org/images/flateric.jpg

T*e F***y F******s

It really seems there are far less weirdos/oddballs in the UK pop charts, can only really think of La Roux as someone a bit outside the norm (sulky, quiffy, not-conventionally attractive, hazy sexuality etc). A helluva lot of pleasantly attractive nice'n'normal stage school pop stars but very few Morrisseys or Adam Ants floating around.

What are the reasons for this? (Or am I falling victim to rose-tints?)

man there are some pretty awful posts at the top of this thread

Ol' Dirty Bastard is the Syd Barret of hip-hop. If you listen closely to the lyrics on the album it sounds like the producers just recorded hundreds of hours of crack-fuelled ranting and pasted it together randomly. I'm by no means a hip-hop fan, but in terms of crazy people making pop music it's a must-have.

― paul b, Saturday, August 24, 2002 11:13 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

but if They Might Be Giants do not represent the height of pop surrealism then WHO does?

― blueski, Monday, August 26, 2002 1:46 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I think the latter post may be sarcastic

The reasons in brief: Pop Music in its infancy was a weird offshoot of showbiz in general and the lines were a lot more blurred in terms of what would take the record buying public's fancy. Also the demographic for buying singles was completely different 30 years ago. Everything else is who gives a shit, mostly?

I'm not convinced it's as clear cut as that. Pop is famously cyclical so I'm hoping for an upcoming glut of unconventional popstars types - with the above-mentioned La Roux and Florence Welch kicking the whole thing off. All ginger maybe. (Say what you like about Flo, she fits the bill as an unconventional & striking popstar.)

la roux is unconventional but if they'd came out 25 years ago they'd be very conventional. thus making them pretty conventional.

also if you don't see florence that you've got the love is very 90s drive-time.

Another oddball in a pool of oddballs still makes for a pool of oddballs. Anyway, it's not like the entire 80s charts were made up of nutters, it's just there actually WERE a bunch of them, not so much now, until very recently anyway.

And if you don't see Robert Smith that Friday I'm in Love is very etc etc

i would argue that la roux isn't an oddball act, the lyrics are conventional, the music pure pastiche of 80s synth-pop, the front-woman wears funny clothes and is probably a lesbian; if we're looking for silly/surreal this is not quite les champs magnétiques.

Most of those 80s "characters" were just people deeply into a particular scene plus deeply into themselves, pretty sure pop music is still chocca with people like that it's just that they don't all have hilarious hair and nobody gives a fuck what their opinions are any more.

Getting confused here, you're both contradicting what you've just said minutes ago!

Also I think you're underestimating the importance of 'silly hair' and <a href=http://www.petshopboys-online.com/bilder/upload/psb_1587.jpg>;the like</a>. Tis pop music after all.

Try again:

...you're underestimating the importance of 'silly hair' and the like. Tis pop music after all.

First go round I thought you were addressing the question of absurdists, oddities and generally out of place artists within the pop charts. Then I realised you were talking about Robert Smith and Morrissey and hence the second answer.

i.e. making surreal videos/looking quirky doesn't meet the original thread criteria cos it is one of the basic coins of pop.

Ok yeah. That makes me wonder where Lady Gaga fits into this. This has been no doubt been discussed elsewhere on ilx but despite the clothes she is not genuinely 'weird'.

did whiney post 8 years ago? would love to read some of that

I'm by no means a hip-hop fan, but in terms of crazy people making pop music it's a must-have.
I'm by no means a hip-hop fan, but in terms of crazy people making pop music it's a must-have.
I'm by no means a hip-hop fan, but in terms of crazy people making pop music it's a must-have.
I'm by no means a hip-hop fan, but in terms of crazy people making pop music it's a must-have.
I'm by no means a hip-hop fan, but in terms of crazy people making pop music it's a must-have.
I'm by no means a hip-hop fan, but in terms of crazy people making pop music it's a must-have.
I'm by no means a hip-hop fan, but in terms of crazy people making pop music it's a must-have.
I'm by no means a hip-hop fan, but in terms of crazy people making pop music it's a must-have.
I'm by no means a hip-hop fan, but in terms of crazy people making pop music it's a must-have.
I'm by no means a hip-hop fan, but in terms of crazy people making pop music it's a must-have.

I tend to avoid Top 40 "pop" radio & stuff, but from what I've gleaned from my 13-yr.-old daughter's listening there seems to be no shortage of "silly" lyrics but virtually NO "surreal" lyrics. Tweens & teens don't seem to be looking for 'Dada' at the present time.

...that said, my daughter does enjoy Jad Fair & Syd Barrett. Maybe there's a niche to be filled.

elly jackson and florence welch is a pretty low bar for "unconventional". mundane fucking wenches!

i take issue with people looking for explicit "unconventionality" anyway - pop is full of oddities and confusion, even if this is wrapped up in a package that looks normal (or normalised) at first - and figures such as jackson and welch, who constantly yell about being unconventional and put that front and centre in their sales pitch to the public, are usually only unconventional in the most superficial way (which is why we get posters calling them oddballs for being ginger - are you fucking serious - because there ain't much else to cite as weird). it's that "I'M WACKY, ME" syndrome. if you have to say it then you ain't it.

unconventional popstars types

and u prob didn't mean it like this but "types" is exactly what they are, not genuinely distinctive artists or eccentrics at all. elly jackson is your common-or-garden narrow-minded art student with an 80s fetish and deeply conservative views. florence welch is a third-tier sophie b hawkins (let us NOT compare her to geniuses like kate bush or tori amos, please).

or sophie b hawkins

The silly & surreal seems to be primarily restricted to fashion rather than lyrics.

Duran Duran have some silly and surreal lyrics

i take issue with people looking for explicit "unconventionality" anyway - pop is full of oddities and confusion, even if this is wrapped up in a package that looks normal (or normalised) at first... it's that "I'M WACKY, ME" syndrome. if you have to say it then you ain't it.

unconventional popstars types

and u prob didn't mean it like this but "types" is exactly what they are, not genuinely distinctive artists or eccentrics at all.

― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend)

fleh. sometimes it's just a matter of taste, lex. it doesn't all have to be some fucking referendum on the essence and politics of pop. i like playful, clever and deliberately silly/surreal wordplay. it's just a thing i enjoy. when i seek it out, i'm not denying the oddity or the value of anything else, i'm simply indulging a personal fondness.

Are we simply talking about POP pop music here?

Because really there are a lot of slightly more underground artists - Ariel Pink, Jesca Hoop who I would class as unconventional lyricists. But the last couple of people I would say took lyricism beyond what was probably expected are people like Andre 3000 or Mike Skinner. Maybe not surreal, but def doing things differently from the rest of their peers. I dunno. I'm tired so prob not being very coherent...