Why is OK just listen to bands with boys

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but it's not OK to just listen to bands with girls in them? My brother Brett is constantly poking fun at me because I like stuff like Tori Amos, Liz Phair and Mary Timony. I mean its not like I just want to listen to women either. Really I've just gotten into exploring music and I'm just finding my way. I mean, i do like Bright Eyes, too. lol. So guess, I'm also maybe asking for some advice to broaden my horizons, too. I'm open to lots of stuff.

Erin Caruthers (maneki neko), Sunday, 25 August 2002 02:50 (twenty-three years ago)

maybe my question is kind of stupid, though. i'm sorry.

Erin Caruthers (maneki neko), Sunday, 25 August 2002 02:54 (twenty-three years ago)

well, your question is overstated. obv. nothing is wrong with it, and your brother is a dork. i really don't like male singers all that much, plus am usually taken with cuteness of girl rockers (hey, i'm being honest) so i listen to way more girl bands. I recommend Thalia Zedek "Been Here and Gone" LP, new S-K goes without saying, and you might like Sarah Shannon, Carrie Akre (AAH-kree) and it seems most people are jazzed about Neko Case. Also check out Evil Beaver and the No-No's.

ron (ron), Sunday, 25 August 2002 02:58 (twenty-three years ago)

what you should do is hide a bunch of gay porn
under your brother's bed, or somewhere else. i'm
not sure where. maybe not under the bed. somewhere
kind of hidden but kind of out in the open, too.
and then get someone to find it. like, i'm not
sure who. you would know better than me. some
variation on that theme.

and start all kinds of terrible rumours about
him. like his sphincter- like, the muscles
don't work anymore because he got double-fisted
and they broke. so he has to wear diapers. he
can control it a bit and if he poops at regular
intervals it isn't so bad but he still has
to wear diapers just in case.

or steal stuff from him and sell it.

dk, Sunday, 25 August 2002 03:08 (twenty-three years ago)

DK is cruel but inspired.

It's not a stupid question at all, Erin. If that happens to be what you prefer, then that is great. :-) As Ron notes, your brother is a dork, and you've already noted how the question can be thrown back at him just as easily -- does he listen to any bands with female performers in them?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 August 2002 03:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Erin, just stand up for what you like and take your brother's bullshit. Use the argument you used here. Making him look like an idiot in front of his friends, Defend yourself. I mean, hell, I dont like the stuff you listen to, but that doesnt mean you shouldnt stand up for it. Who cares how cool your brother or even me thinks you are? I bet he listens to Belle & Sebastian anyway.

jack cole (jackcole), Sunday, 25 August 2002 04:10 (twenty-three years ago)

What does your brother listen to? I'll bet we can help you make fun of him.

Keith Harris (kharris1128), Sunday, 25 August 2002 04:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks a million billion times for the encouragement guys! lol I'm so ignorant about music I haven't even heard of most of ron's recommendations! And half the ones I heard of (that's all of one) I mispronounced like Carrie Akre which I always said like acre. Gawd, I feel so dumb about all this music I've never even heard of, maybe in a way my brother is right. LOL that would be a first! ;)

That's funny you recommend Neko Case because of my fascination with maneki neko. Lol, I know that's a meaningless connection and all, but it makes me want to check them out even more than the others you mentioned. I wonder where the Neko in their name comes from? Okay, I'll shut up on that now 'cause that IS a stupid question!

dk, while your suggestion was funny and definitely intrigues me I'll have to pass. Believe it or not, I love Brett even if he's a loser and mean to me alot. Besides, the only chance of someone finding the mags is if his friend came in and saw them, lol! And he doesn't have anything worth stealing! LOL

ned, thanks again for your encouragement, you really make me feel totally welcome here. You seem like a really nice guy and you've made me more at ease about posting around people that know so much more about music than me! (c:

jack, I try to stand up to him, I really do! But when I get angry its like my brain falls out of my foot and the most I can usually do is stand there looking nasty with a red face! lol Well, maybe it's not quite THAT bad, but... Of coarse, I never think of good comebacks until way after the argument is over anyway. But thanks for your advice, I know you're probably right. :] P.S. What's so bad about Belle and Sebastian anyway? I'm not sure about my brother, but I know I like them!

Keith, my brother is CONSTANTLY playing Pavement. I guess their not all that bad, but once you hear them a ZILLION times you get sick of it! lol And he's only been home again for a week! He's also been listening to the Hives and the White Stripes, to name a few. I like some of the music he listens to and not some of the other stuff. But I try not to judge even if it is my brother! LOL

*Whew* I better stop yapping away now! I still have a blog entry to make, my mushroom trip was really good this time. Thanks for letting me waste your time with my silly and dumb questions and stuff, lol. I'm glad I've received such a positive reaction though, I was really nervous about posting. Keep the suggestions for music coming, I'm really interested. =)

Erin Caruthers (maneki neko), Sunday, 25 August 2002 05:06 (twenty-three years ago)

When I was 15 I didn't listen to any female singers at all. Now that I'm 20 I realize I may actually listen to more female than male singers. Like Ron, I'm troubled by the thought that this might be down to my sad crushing on the likes of Carrie Brownstein, Kat Hanna, Polly Jean Harvey, Ronnie Spector (at least in '64) and yes, Mary Timony. If I think about this long enough half the stuff I think I like starts to seem suspect ("Maybe I only fooled myself into liking Ghost World because I'm secretly in love with Thora Birch!") so it's best not to. Anyway, your brother is being very silly and I bet he's a closet Journey fan or something.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 25 August 2002 05:08 (twenty-three years ago)

I bet he listens to Belle & Sebastian anyway.

Belle and Sebastian, that band famous for not having any female vocals...

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 25 August 2002 05:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Aha, White Stripes! 50-50 gender split! This can be the band around which Erin and her brother can reconcile. Or you could start claiming that they are the new century's Carpenters to piss him off, as he is an arse. (Not that I'm entirely comfortable being on the side of a Tori Amos fan, but the fact remains that disdaining female acts seems to me irredeemably idiotic. And maybe worse: would we not suspect racism if someone were vociferously opposed to black music?)

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 25 August 2002 08:38 (twenty-three years ago)

although, (some will disagree) he could be doing a LOT worse than listening to pavement, white stripes and hives

ron (ron), Sunday, 25 August 2002 08:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, kids these days are robbing banks and shooting up ecstacy or smoking beer.

Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 25 August 2002 08:52 (twenty-three years ago)

For months I've been trying to get my sister to like either Ani DiFranco or Shakira, and have failed on both counts.


I mildly dislike Thora Birch, mostly for American Beauty, and I still think Ghost World is brilliant.

B:Rad (Brad), Sunday, 25 August 2002 10:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Every time I've tried to smoke beer I get visions of banana peels.

you really make me feel totally welcome here

Why, you're quite welcome! :-) We were all newcomers once.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 August 2002 11:54 (twenty-three years ago)

I admit that I'm sort of guilty of this to an extent...well, the gender segregation part, anyhow. Eileen has pointed this out to me: I have far more male artists in my collection than I do female artists. That's not to say that I don't have any female artists in my collection, because I still do have a lot, but it's obvious the percentage is skewed towards the male.
I've spent time trying to figure this out, because it kind of bugs me. About the nearest I can figure out is that I tend to steer more towards one than the other because I can identify with the viewpoint more. This is probably why I don't have much time for, say, Tori Amos. But if that held I probably wouldn't really want to listen to Ani Difranco either, and I still like all of her early albums (the later ones, after she fell in love and stuff, don't really connect with me as much). At any rate, I don't feel as embarassed about this as I would have been if I was this other guy I knew back from university, who just utterly refused to listen to any female artists, because he hates "the way women sing". Jeeze.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Sunday, 25 August 2002 11:59 (twenty-three years ago)

you car(r)uthers boys are all alike

mitch lastnamewithheld, Sunday, 25 August 2002 12:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Tell him "Slanted & Enchanted" is the work of a second-rate Fall cover band. (Well, I don't hear it that way, but that's what Mark E Smith has been yammering since 92, and, um, he should know, maybe)

OK, that's way too nerdy. How about singing "Woo Hoo" whenever "Hate To Say I Told You So" comes on and saying the Hives owe Blur royalties? Though your bro is probably one of those "Yeah, everyone likes the singles, but it's the rest of the album that really rocks" kinda guys, huh?

Truth be told, his tastes aren't bad, just a little predictable. You deserve credit for trying to branch out while he keeps with the safe choices.

Keith Harris (kharris1128), Sunday, 25 August 2002 13:38 (twenty-three years ago)

well, any collection is gonna be skewed male, that reflect's what's out there. For me, I can't use that as a criteria for 'I like this not that' though. in the world of noisy music boys rule too, but sisters are definitely doing it for themselves.

great xx chromosome dominated work off the top of the dome - Dog Faced Hermans, Delia Derbyshire, People Like Us, Pauline Oliveros, Scissor Girls, Harry Pussy, Sonic Yoot, Blond Redhead, Vibracathedral Orchestra, Bardo Pond, Nautical Almanac, Monotrona, Erase Errata, Numbers, Kleenex/LiLiPUT, Yo La Tengo....

add the Fall, New Order, Boredoms, Thinking Fellers, Velvet Underground & this brother's got shit for a leg to stand on, you could out-cool his ass any time.

autovac (can't get into Tori Amos, but Joni Mitchell's cool by me)

autovac, Sunday, 25 August 2002 14:30 (twenty-three years ago)

also check out The Need

ron (ron), Sunday, 25 August 2002 15:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Its sad that the Need broke up both as a couple and a band -- their two albums are excellent and live they were top notch.

jack cole (jackcole), Sunday, 25 August 2002 17:32 (twenty-three years ago)

hmm, jack, this is odd! i've searched around and found a couple of web pages alluding to this breakup in 2001, but i have two mags, (venus#12, spring 2002, and index feb 2002) which don't mention it, and there was talk of this third member, Dvin. More info, please, anyone?

ron (ron), Sunday, 25 August 2002 18:57 (twenty-three years ago)

i think I read it an article in the local free weekly, the Portland Mercury in an article about Erase Errata coming to town yesterday. The deal is that the couple broke up, hence the band breaking up also, which makes me sad -- one of my favorites. Well, at least I still have the Sick Bees -- here's hoping they find a new label. Their two albums on Up are excellent, speaking of lesbian duos.

jack cole (jackcole), Sunday, 25 August 2002 20:42 (twenty-three years ago)

Your brother = petty narrow-mindedness, Erin. If it's female vocalists/songwriters ye be after, then he greatest of all singers is Hope Sandoval of Mazzy Star. Get mazzy Star's "She Hangs Brightly". Also "Stories from the City, Stories from the Sea" by PJ Harvey and "The Trinity Session" by the Cowboy Junkies.

"...am usually taken with cuteness of girl rockers"

If it's foxy female singers ye be hunting for, then look no further than Gemma Hayes' "Night on my Side". The music is cool enough, but even if this disappoints you, there is a rather seductive picture of her splendiferous features on the inner sleeve. Everyone's a winner!

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 25 August 2002 21:19 (twenty-three years ago)

"I have far more male artists in my collection than I do female artists. That's not to say that I don't have any female artists in my collection...it kind of bugs me"

Yeah, me too. It definitely isn't to do with a preference for the SOUND of a male vocalist, as there is nothing more pleasing to the ear than the sound of Bilinda Butcher or Mimi Parker or Beth Gibbons. There is nothing wrong with preferring a certain type of singer (I mean, everyone prefers different styles and sounds to others within music, so there is no reason to be ashamed or embarrassed about preferring a different gender of vocalist) but as I have no real gender preferences, I feel a little guilty about my male-dominated record collection.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 25 August 2002 21:50 (twenty-three years ago)

also cowboy junkies, i like "whites off earth now!"

plus that may be the best album title ever

ron (ron), Sunday, 25 August 2002 22:04 (twenty-three years ago)

ron, I just found the Need used today at a record store. i'm excited to check it out. i think i'll try to review it on my blog. i hope i don't do too bad of job talking about it, though. i really haven't written anything like that before.

also, does anyone know about a band called Chug or something like that? my brother's friend was playing a record by them and it was really neat. I really liked the lyrics and the girl singing. The guitars were really melodic but fuzzy at the same time. Does anyone know about them?

Erin Caruthers (maneki neko), Sunday, 25 August 2002 22:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Martin, am I a bad person for like Tori Amos? What's wrong with her? I'm just curious. You seem nice. Alright, I'll shut up now.

Erin Caruthers (maneki neko), Sunday, 25 August 2002 22:29 (twenty-three years ago)

1. Don't shut up! That goes against everything ILX was built on. Just say it (unless it's something heretical like "Well, actually, Baby One More Time isn't that great...", in which case you'd be burnt at the stake).


2. Is that NZ Chug?


3. There are more male singers than female singers (in most genres, in most countries).

B:Rad (Brad), Sunday, 25 August 2002 23:11 (twenty-three years ago)

NZ Chug = good band indeed.

am I a bad person for like Tori Amos?

Oh heavens no.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 August 2002 23:16 (twenty-three years ago)

has anybody heard TAmos version of "home on the range" on the God single?

ron (ron), Monday, 26 August 2002 00:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Erin, you should try to find something by Curve- they're really good.

lyra (lyra), Monday, 26 August 2002 01:05 (twenty-three years ago)

But it IS okay to listen to bands with girls in them, or records made by girls for that matter. Last time I looked, My Bloody Valentine, Bjork and PJ Harvey, to name but three, were really very credible indeed.

It's just not okay to listen to RUBBISH bands with girls in them. Like Garbage.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 26 August 2002 13:20 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm sorry if that Tori Amos comment sounded sincere: I tend to flippantly insult other people's tastes in a way that I expect not to be taken seriously, but it is. I don't like her records (except of course the Armand Van Helden remake of Professional Widow), so in a musical argument I wouldn't expect to be defending the person praising her. If liking things I don't like made someone a bad person, the whole world would be evil. Oh, hang on...

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 26 August 2002 16:20 (twenty-three years ago)

erin, your question should be posed to every rock (maybe college rock too while we're at it) program director in the country. it's not just your brother that seems to have this problem -- the lumping together of 'women in rock' by both women and men (yes both) has resulted in a wide, wide gender-demographic divide.

(you might want to check out syrup usa, too -- their record has a really nice mary timony feel. seana carmody, the band's lead singer, has a solo record coming out either now or soon.)

maura (maura), Monday, 26 August 2002 17:38 (twenty-three years ago)

i think being more drawn to the work of one gender or another is natural, since very few people listen to an even 50/50% split, but if your collection looks more like a 95/5% split then you probably need to ask yourself some searching questions.

Dave M. (rotten03), Monday, 26 August 2002 18:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Why is OK just listen to bands with boys
When yer out with the boys, You listen to rock bands to get yer blood up...
When yer out with a girl, You listen to Barry White or Isaac Hayes to get HER blood up.

Lord Custos Alpha (Lord Custos Alpha), Monday, 26 August 2002 18:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks again for the suggestions everyone! And it has been very stimulating to read all the perspectives too. Martin, no need to apologize, I can just be a bit defensive about my Tori Amos is all! lol I should have realized you were just being offhanded and all. Coming here and reading has been a highlight on one hell of a bad day.

maura, I have All Over the Land (do html thingies work here?) already, and like it very much. Do you know why they only put out the one album? I know they broke up but I have no clue why. :-/

Alpha person, you don't mean that do you? I like neither and I'm most certainly a HER, lol! Anyway, I should go because I spend too much time online as it is now anyway. :-L

Erin Caruthers (maneki neko), Monday, 26 August 2002 21:06 (twenty-three years ago)

what the fuck? is your blog for real or are you insane? i checked it out and its just crazy. i mean, you don't really believe in fairies do you? you seriously need medication. i don't think tori amos is going to cure the mess of trouble inside your head. you need serious professional help.

malleable panda, Monday, 26 August 2002 21:37 (twenty-three years ago)

grow up panda, jeez

mark s (mark s), Monday, 26 August 2002 21:52 (twenty-three years ago)

This may be as good a time as any to point out this thread here.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Monday, 26 August 2002 22:29 (twenty-three years ago)

crap, how could i forget my girls??? Slant 6 and Quix*o*tic!

ron (ron), Tuesday, 27 August 2002 01:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Where Ron's girls at?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 27 August 2002 14:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Bark with me now.

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 27 August 2002 14:20 (twenty-three years ago)

To respond to an earlier post about not liking female artists because of the way they sang.

I too have a 90-10 split in favour of males in my collection - and I was thinking the other day about why. And the only thign I could come up with IS that I don't like the way women sing. And before you jump down my throat, let me do a little explaining.

The women I DO have in my collection sing like blokes. I don't mean in a deep voice (!) but for the phrasing - Janis Joplin, PJ Harvey, Beth Orton, to name three obvious examples. The only two real exceptions to this rule is Sandy Denny (best voice EVER, so I'm allowed) and Joni Mitchell (but I hate her voice, and only stay for the songwriting, which kind of defeats the object)

I CERTAINLY don't consider myself mysoginistic - I buy and listen to what I like, and if the sound of the female voice doesn't do anything for me, I shouldn't feel bad about it.

I went through a similar crisis with black music about a year ago, when I realised that everything seemed to be white. I kinda panicked when I realised all I had was a Muddy Waters compilation and 3 feet high and rising, but then I twigged - it doesn't matter. As a white male, I'm gonna associate more with white males than anyone else. That doesn't mean to say that I can't bask in the lovliness of Who knows Where The Time Goes, or get down and dirty with Smokestack Lightnin', it just means that I'm more likley gonna listen to Leonard Cohen or The Who.

I guess it all boils back down to "Listen to what you feel like", but the other way round - don't feel that you SHOULD like someone just because they're of an ethnic minority of a different gender to you, because that's just as poor as NOT listening to them.

John Barlow, Tuesday, 27 August 2002 15:22 (twenty-three years ago)

If you are a rock fan first and foremost, it would be surprising if you didn't have 95% male music. If you are a pop fan, this would be more surprising. Different genres have different balances - and this obviously applies to race too. Black people have had a small presence in rock in recent decades, but if you said you loved soul and blues, but only the white people, I think that would be grounds for suspicion!

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 27 August 2002 17:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Gosh, I don't mean to sound like a know-nothing, but there's a difference between rock and pop? I always think of them as sort of the same. I guess I mean in a not classical music way but sort of like stuff you might here on the radio, or at least on a college radio station. You know, songs.

Erin Caruthers (maneki neko), Tuesday, 27 August 2002 23:48 (twenty-three years ago)

You know, songs.

Really? Go on . . . like the ones Tori Amos sings?

malleable panda, Tuesday, 27 August 2002 23:50 (twenty-three years ago)

In as much as it's useful, the South Auckland definition is rock (or "Rock") = pretentious and pop (or "Pop") = not pretentious.

As a white male, I'm gonna associate more with white males than anyone else.

But surely one of the nice things about music is that you can learn points of view other than your own? I'm not white or American or middle-aged or female, so isn't it more valuable for me to listen to Lucinda Williams?

B:Rad (Brad), Wednesday, 28 August 2002 00:09 (twenty-three years ago)

are we all just the victims of our environments and genetic blueprints?

(except for erin, who was raised by fairies and breathes pixie dust while dancing in her bedroom to Tori Amos singing "Smells Like Teen Spirit.")

malleable panda (malleable panda), Wednesday, 28 August 2002 04:27 (twenty-three years ago)

erin's question really has nothing to do with gender. i think it's more about why she has such abysmally bad taste. why do you, erin?

malleable panda (malleable panda), Wednesday, 28 August 2002 04:30 (twenty-three years ago)

ps bright eyes isn't a girl, either, though he may sound like one.

malleable panda (malleable panda), Wednesday, 28 August 2002 04:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Look malleable, I don't know why you feel its necessary to be so mean to me. Everyone has different tastes, isn't diversity a good thing? I mean, maybe some things are better than others, but I don't see how you can try to judge me! And making fun of me because of something personal I believe in very much is just wrong. You aren't contributing to this discussion at all. Everyone else has been very helpful and I appreciate it lots, but I can't help being sadened by your meanness. :-(

If we're all victims of our "environments and genetic blueprints" then aren't you too? Or are you somehow special and above us? Isn't that alot like being a Nazi?

Erin Caruthers (maneki neko), Wednesday, 28 August 2002 05:03 (twenty-three years ago)

emoticon this, erin. you're just such a smiley faced black hole. i bet to fit in better, you're probably even starting to fool yourself into not liking tori amos now.

malleable panda (malleable panda), Wednesday, 28 August 2002 05:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Panda, I'm sure I'm not the only person here who finds your personal attacks on Erin unacceptable. How about a little basic civility?

Keith Harris (kharris1128), Wednesday, 28 August 2002 05:59 (twenty-three years ago)

mpanda is a scorpio i bet. and a put-on. mock-julio abuse, rapidly escalating vitriol over nuffin. i'd be suspicious of a pair of new posters so quickly at odds, but erin's mushroom and fairy hunting tale is too charming

boxcubed (boxcubed), Wednesday, 28 August 2002 06:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Your right. I've taken it too far screwing with Erin. I thought she'd figure out who I was by now. my bookmark did bring her here after all. ha ha ha.

malleable panda (malleable panda), Wednesday, 28 August 2002 07:14 (twenty-three years ago)


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