TS: John Coltrane's Atlantic albums vs. John Coltrane's Impulse! albums

Granted, there are a lot more of the latter, but still. I revere the former for their compositional sophistication and, for lack of a better word, their soulfulness, and the latter for their transcendence and spirituality (and of course's Coltrane's classic quartet was every bit the equal of Miles' second classic quintet). But there are obviously elements of all those things in each body of work. Ironically, perhaps, when I was younger I gravitated toward the Impulse! catalog, but lately I've been listening to more of the Atlantic work.

prestige!

okay, fine, impulse.

but i am basically a before and after atlantic kinda guy.

i have the atlantic box here at the store (which nobody will buy for 40 bucks so i guess i should mark it down to 30?) and i get really full pretty quickly when i put that stuff on. 2 or 3 discs and i'm all oof...loosen my belt and go take a nap. whereas i could listen to prestige or blue note or miles or monk or impulse stuff all day forever and be as fresh as a spring hare. you know?

I'm an Impulse! guy myself (and the sound quality of the Impulse Collection boxsets is astounding. Love Japanese remasters of jazz), but I enjoy the Atlantic stuff too. The Prestige stuff is fine, but he doesn't set himself apart from the crowd of saxophonists doing amazing work in the 50s. I'll take Johnny Griffin over Trane in that era.

In some ways, I think my rock background (as such) makes me appreciate the more visceral aspects of the Impulse! stuff a bit more, but I do know musician friends (or I should say, musician friends who know more theory and whatnot than I do) that love the Atlantic stuff. Like, it's easy to enjoy an album like "Kind of Blue," but you could write a whole book on what makes the album special or so important, on a compositional/theory level. Same with something like "Giant Steps." Whereas I can just hop on a lot of the Impulse! stuff and just go with it, you know?

Scott -

If I drop you a check will you mail me the Coltrane Atlantic box?

impulse!

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0393058794.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

there are few possible TSs where i would not pick john coltrane's impulse! albums

probably impulse -- but there are plenty of essential Atlantic sessions. like the october 1960 recordings are astonishing -- favorite things, the blues album, coltrane's sound, all recorded in the span of like a week.

despite the scary cover, this might be one trane's best
http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/j/john-coltrane/album-coltranes-sound.jpg

I'm with Scott. I have all three of the recent Prestige boxes - Fearless Leader, Interplay and Side Steps - and I listen to them all the time. I have all the Atlantic albums in my iPod, but rarely feel the desire to listen to them. The one I probably like the best is Bags & Trane, with Milt Jackson. So given that we're not talking about the 1950s stuff here, I gotta vote Impulse.

sure. just so you know, it is used and the box has some corner wear. but its in nice shape overall. is 35 total okay (that would include shipping)? if so:

john doe jr. used records
269 main street
greenfield, ma
01301

oh but wait, it is the CD set! not a vinyl box. just so there is no confusion. one of two cd boxes i have in the store. the other being the eno instrumental box that nobody wants.

x-post to ezsnappin

Coltrane's Sound is a good one. This matchup is kind of unfair to the Atlantics.

hanks scott! I'll try and get the check out to you in the next couple of days. Though I hope to make it back to the store come spring; maybe I can catch a show this time.

hanks = Thanks! Don't know where the T went.

yeah, i mean a few of the atlantic albums seem like experiments for coltrane, where he's testing out things. whereas the impulse stuff if just goin' in.
(how much is the eno instrumental box?)

http://jazztimes.com/images/content/articles/0002/0346/200402_096_depth1.jpg?1230019912http://jazztimes.com/images/content/articles/0002/0346/200402_096_depth1.jpg?1230019912

the other being the eno instrumental box that nobody wants.

haha... details plz?

"Though I hope to make it back to the store come spring; maybe I can catch a show this time."

you should! david gross is playing here this saturday. a whole 'nother kind of sax noize.

the eno box? forget what i'm selling that for. its all instrumental tracks from various albums and a bonus disc of newer stuff. i think? i should check.

4 disc thing. the fourth disc is called webs/details. i don't think i even know what that is. i've had it out for 30 bucks forever. i thought that was fair. i sell eno on vinyl like hotcakes. ambient hotcakes.

I'm on a serious Coltrane discovery/swoon/fascination right now. While I absolutely adore Blue Train, Giant Steps, My Favorite Things and Coltrane's Sound, it's the Impulse! albums that are really grabbing a hold of me at the moment. I recently picked up Volumes 1 and 2...the first ten albums, spanning Africa/Brass through A Love Supreme. It's keeping me plenty busy and obsessed.

Can anyone vouch for the quality of the Volume 3 set? I am a little scared by a review at Amazon that states the mastering is sub-par (and this from a fan of the first two sets).

scott, u sure it's four discs? i found this thing but looks like it's three. seems to be the only eno instrumental box out there... unless i'm overlooking something?

http://www.allmusic.com/album/eno-box-i-instrumentals-r192655/review

i have the first two impulse boxes (lol i also have the classic quartet box set), but not the third. i had heard bad things about the sound, too, but sometimes you have to take the audiophile stuff with a grain of salt? depending on what your audio setup is, it might not make too much difference in your listening enjoyment. (cue audiophile attacks!)

Seriously, these are mono albums recorded 45-50 years ago. What the fuck do you want them to sound like?

Sound of the original recordings or the sound after they ran it through the latest purification technology?

"scott, u sure it's four discs?"

see, this is how closely i look at cd things. ha! yeah, the booklet is just packaged like a cd and i assumed it was some additional eno thing i had never heard of. so, yeah, its three discs.

I wouldn't consider myself a *massive* audiophile, necessarily, but must admit that I am rather turned off by excessive amounts of compression and no-noise technology. In other words, I like things that are basically flat transfers. See, I do most of my listening on this thing called a "stereo"; a cd player and turntable run through a receiver hooked up to speakers. I know it sounds so antiquated...;)

And by the way, those 45-50 year old mono recordings > the vast majority of what was recorded in the last ten years (from a strictly fidelity standpoint). *Anyways*...not to veer this one off course!

I have the third box and I think it sounds better than my prior versions (for example, "kulu se mama" is better than on my '92 copy of Major Works; "brazilia" sounds better than on the Classic Quartet box). But hey, to each his own. Definitely wouldn't call them thin, which seems to be a major complaint on Amazon. I just got it in December - maybe earlier runs were screwed up. It happens.

i do actually really like those impulse boxes just for presenting the albums as they came out, as opposed to the box sets that put everything in chronological order (w/ alternate takes in a row). each approach has its advantages, but i think for overall listening pleasure, the original albums do the trick.

Thanks EZ! It seems inevitable that I will eventually take a flier on Volume 3. Seems like the most economical way to obtain these albums.

Tyler, I agree with preferring the chronological approach. While I appreciate the thoroughness and packaging of the larger box sets, it does feel somehow more right to make introduction of these albums as they were originally presented.

I wonder if they will continue the series with some of the posthumously released stuff?

^^^^^^^
(Realizing my "stereo" comment above makes me seem like a total jackass. Was meant in jest...obvs would not be surprised to learn that a large number of ilxors still swear by physical media.)

So those Prestige sets...do the three of them combine to present the albums in full? What's the approach on those?

it's the "session" approach, where each tune is presented in the order it was recorded. you can obviously re-create the playing order of the original albums themselves, though. those boxes are the cheapest/easiest way to get all that material anyway.

Yeah, the Prestige sets feature the tracks in chronological order, but the booklets offer an easy-to-read guide to "re-assembling" the individual albums. Also worth noting, though, is that the Side Steps (which documents Coltrane's work as a sideman) and Interplay (which features him as part of large ensembles like the Prestige All-Stars) sets only feature tracks on which he plays. So if, say, there's a Red Garland album that he was on but that album also featured a couple of trio tracks with no sax, you don't get those.

those red garland records w/ coltrane are great -- coltrane at his most laid back.

just remembered i started this thread a million years ago ... kind of relevant: JAZZ D-BAGS: Let's discuss non-Coltrane records that feature both Elvin Jones and McCoy Tyner

I'm hardly an expert, but I have five or six from each period, and I have a definite preference for the Impulse albums. Except for "My Favorite Things," which is my single favorite performance.

This is a hard call. I have the Heavyweight Champion, The Classic Quartet and Complete Live at The Village Vanguard boxes and I am going with the Impulses mainly because of the Village Vanguard stuff. Also my favorite Trane, Live at Birdland, is on Impulse.

One of my most cherished memories is seeing Elvin Jones (leading his Jazz Machine) at the San Sebastian jazz festival. The ancient outdoor venue was half-empty, because it was raining, but everyone there was smiling like mad, Elvin included.

In many ways I conflate Coltrane's Impulse! years with his classic quartet years, which of course is only part of the story. Maybe I should have divided it that way: Atlantic, classic quartet, post-quartet/Tyner-Jones.

xpost - Do a little ILM searching and you'll find 2-3 samples of me reminiscing about the Jazz Machine show at Toronto's Bermuda Onion, which ended with Elvin giving me a totally spontaneous (and sweaty!) hug when I approached him for an autograph...

Anyways, I'll go for the impulse! stuff, just for the greater variety of formats & groups/settings, etc. as opposed to the (almost) all-quartet Atlantic stuff.

i saw elvin in boston around '00 or '01...it was at a hotel (can't remember the name) and i was sitting literally four feet away from his kit. eric lewis on piano, just murdering it along with elvin.