Talking about music IRL, dud or dud?

depends what people in IRL though doesn't it?

ppl who speak both languages fluently eg dave q and adorno (heh) are quite threatening, because, w/o necessarily intending to, they look like they can collapse OUR SPECIAL SPACE :(

Further, if someone wants to indulge in histrionics let 'em and if they wanna say something is shit because it's shit then that's cool too. If I disagree then I might choose to rip em up or I might not - either way, it's all valid response to artistic statement, for all one may not like it stroke appreciate it stroke relate to it. In answer to your question however, are such reactions therefor a "reflection of the true real deep profound consciousness of the person saying them" - no they are not. There are plenty of people around here, for example to can wax lyrical till the cows come home about the most obscure or irritating subject just as easily as suggesting something is "fucking cock," myself included. I like it, indeed I practice both schools of interrogation; and to posit one form of critique, either the more investigative or the more flippant, does not necessarily reflect one's consciousness (however, one's subconsciousness... that's another matter).

Finally: Wank: Brit. vulgar slang > verb [no obj.] (typically of a man) masturbate > noun an act of masturbating - origin 1940's: of unknown origin. May be used as a derogatory term to describe a material or body. Also may be used to describe extrapolation, as in the author of [which] may be seen to aurally masturbating.

Feel free to rip me to pieces Dave.

Sometimes the people in my office ask me things about music. There's no worse thing than when somebody wants to make small talk and they decide to talk about music, it's awful. But a lot of the time they've seen a CD in my pile that they've got and say that's great. Or if it's a pop CD they laugh at it and I tell them it's good. One of my co-workers loves country music so conversations with him are the best. I thought I had something more insightful to say about all this but apparently not. I'm not sure why I'm so keen to talk online but not offline (maybe because online it's a work displacement strategy, duh).

But talking with people with real enthusiasm and love for it is great, e.g. most of my friends IRL and most of the people from here who I've met so far.

The only ppl I've talked about music in person have been ppl that I've met through ILM. Before getting to meet anyone I thought it would be great to meet ppl and the conversation will be in such 'depth' or whatever.

It hasn't turned out like that. Not because it gets to a 'shallow' level but I also like to get to know a fellow ILM-er so we talk about other things. But also its tough to talk in 'depth' about music in person. Its far better to have it written down, to put any ideas down is much better.

The people who gave weight to opinions I just leave alone and don't listen as music is intensely private and personal choice. And usually when someone is lecturing me I would rather not listen. Why listen when you can listen to the music instead?

With a select few (usually with some formal musical training) I can talk meaningfully about music they or I haven't heard. These conversations are the reason I got into System of a Down (I was swayed by a technical argument about diminished thirds or something, which I non-technically identify as "that sound") and why a couple of my friends got into the early Sugar Hill singles ("the illusion of infinite possibility", according to me.)

1. Bands do not have to stick to a guitar-bass-drums, verse-chorus-verse format to be good.
2. Popularity is not proof of quality/poverty.
3. Lack of popularity is not proof of quality/poverty.
4. Bands do not have to write their own songs and play their own instruments to be good.

If these things taken are not taken as a given, I'm not gonna bother getting into a debate. Sure it's a defeatist attitude, but fuck it, I've got my sanity to think of.

Earlier today I met with a neighbor about having some handyman work done. He was a friendly, middle-aged guy with a stylish haircut, wearing a “WAX TRAX! CHICAGO” T-shirt, so I took a chance:

Me: “Were you in the Chicago music scene?”
Guy: “Uh, no... I’m just really into some of the music on this label. Why, are you from Chicago?”
Me: (lamely) “No... I like music, though.”

I know my opening line was lame, but I don’t know enough about Wax Trax artists to say much about them intelligently. Still, this attempt at a real-life music convo: Dud!

Why didn't you ask him which bands he likes, and if he ever saw them live? That tends to lead to further exchanges.

I never talk about music offline.

I do! Most of my friendships (and other ships) develop at least in part from enthusiastic music/film/book (etc) talk. That said, I approach such subjects gingerly when first getting to know strangers. If art talk don't come up naturally or the ensuing conversation doesn't click, I leave it lie.

w!fe: Who is this?

me: (several paragraphs about the track, artist, release date, circumstances of recording, and why the track is good/sucks)

w!fe: I just asked who it was

i love talking about music irl but there needs to be consent on both sides of the conversation -- what you are describing above is a speech when the co-conversant requested an answer
that's not how it's supposed to work -- ideally the people talking about music would both be engaged in the conversation and find it enriching. i talk about music frequently with people irl and enjoy it a lot; less so when I get 'splained or underestimated or it becomes some awful competition.

Why didn't you ask him which bands he likes, and if he ever saw them live? That tends to lead to further exchanges.

He didn’t really seem into talking more about it. (Also, as I said, I don’t know the bands too well, so I wouldn’t have had much to say other than “cool” even if he told me.)

My hope by opening with the Chicago angle was that it would lead to talking about Drag City or some other potential common ground.

then why didn't you bring that up? what you are describing is a difficulty with conversation, not a problem with talking about music :(

i don't say that to be confrontational -- it's just that once you stop worrying/fretting/overthinking, talking about music is enjoyable. unless the other person is not into it, and in that case it's not music's fault

ts: talking about music IRL vs talking about talking about music IRL on ilx

apparently i will take either one
i do love talking about conversation though, irl or not

xpost
Eh, yeah, he just didn’t seem into it. Would have felt like I was forcing a conversation. NBD

(Also, it would have felt weird & random to say, “...well here’s some music *I* like!”)

i took an Uber yesterday and the driver was very chatty and wanted to talk music. he was listening to "Bat Out of Hell" and told me a story of Meatloaf going into an executive's office and winning him over by playing him an entire 8 minute track. then we trailed off and talked David Bowie, he was bragging about inherited his dad's old copy of Diamond Dogs. he kept saying it was a 2xLP but i didn't feel like it was necessary to correct him there, we were just geeking out over records for that 10 min drive. after "Bat Out of Hell" the mix segued almost perfectly into GnR's "November Rain" and we talked about live DJing and mixing. he didn't play musical instruments (well he has a harmonica). it was one of the most effortless discussions i've had with a total stranger in a while.

fwiw he was a total "basic" or "normie" w a mainstream look, nice car, personable personality, etc. i guess is what the modern nomenclature would be (i abhor those terms) and was going on about his real estate biz and stuff as well. but any fan of Bowie is a friend of mine. instant connection.

My wife has a friend who’s (supposedly) a big Dylan fan, and I once tried to talk to him about Dylan – but he literally laughed/scoffed when I told him which albums were my favorite (he was a very trad, ’60s-Dylan guy), so that was the end of it.

i have to be really careful at work. my store isn't exactly grand central station and its easy for me to get cornered by sad pink floyd dudes. they will be the death of me.

yesterday, these two young women came in and they were so excited about everything and were genuinely curious about stuff they had never seen and were happy to just to look at records and we chatted about jesus christ superstar and it was just refreshing to talk to people who weren't sad old dudes who just want to keep buying the same records over and over ad infinitum.

my favorite people to talk about music with in real life who come in my store are curious musicians. they are the best. these are the kind of people who actually write down what i'm playing in the store so that they can remember it later.

curious people rule. in my opinion. lack of curiosity in people makes me so sad.

scott otm

sometimes I find it difficult to be completely honest about my musical taste, I have a new friend who is really into Muse and he asked me what I thought of the band and I said something vague about enjoying the first albums when I was younger and also seeing them in concert (I omitted the walking out from the concert after 4 songs because I was bored (I was very drunk, too))

another friend played me this song and it was all I could do to not complain about how it sounded like a bad Talking Heads parody https://open.spotify.com/album/0kxEujt7gUxdNwzV1bKvAS

seriously i could not agree more about curious people

i struck up a convo with a random man (probably somewhere in his 50s or 60s?) sitting next to me on a couch in knoxville last weekend. he had been brought to big ears by his friend to see evan parker, who he knew nothing about. he said he didn't like the music that much and doesn't need to hear it again but really enjoyed the experience and would recommend people step out of their comfort zone if not only for the sheer experience of it. we had a very pleasant conversation!

his friend walked up at the end of the convo and i said hi and explained that we had been talking about how his friend saw evan parker and you will never believe what this guy said -- "you know who evan parker is?"
DO NOT DO THIS -- this one tiny moment was the only thing about the entire conversation with two strangers about music that went sour. otherwise, i enjoyed it.

those two women were talking and one of them said something like: "i like buying jazz to listen to. i don't know a lot about it. i just buy stuff that looks cool to me and try it out."

and her friend said: "yeah, that's how you learn!"

and i wanted to shout: YES!

because, sadly, its so rare for me to hear that in the store.

indeed the way to go, if a record looks really cool it probably has some good tunes

also, stuff like that totally makes it worthwhile for me to have a store. there are days when i'm like ooooof i should just be at home selling stuff online and avoid the mopey classic rock people completely.

*i just sold a CD of pink floyd's the wall in the time it took me to write this post*

I've been cornered a few times in stores by weird guys who want to talk music. I once went to a combination pie-and-record shop in Rockford and my wife and I were shadowed by a real chatty oddball customer about all the records we were scanning. We departed, went back to my mom's house, enjoyed the rest of our visit, flew back to California, our son went through his final year of preschool, we spent a chill summer relaxing, he started kindergarten, we flew to visit my mom for Christmas, at one point we drove into Rockford, decided to stop at the pie-and-record shop, and the guy was there and he walked over and picked up the one-sided conversation again.

yeah moka totally otm

Interesting topic, I think I'm basically too old to be interested in doing this anymore. There's a guy at work, about the same age as me, I've been working with him pretty much every day, who wears Nurse With Wound t-shirts and, in the morning, when he comes in, he often changes the picture on the PC's desktop to some musician or other, last time it was Eugene Chadbourne. The only time we've ever talked about music was when he put the sleeve of a Chrome's "Red Exposure" on the desktop, it just seems kind of juvenile for two guys of our age to be talking about what our favourite Nurse With Wound albums are.

Having said that, I have a friend, who's a lot older and is a serious jazz buff and we often do have long long conversations about music.

with good friends who are into music I find talking about music absolutely classic

with strangers/new friends I'm more wary...

I don't really know many irl people who are interested in music tbh. I keep bumping into an old alcohol/mdma casualty friend who people refer to as Disco Dave because of his many fantasy stories about what a top DJ he is. I can never get a word of sense out of him though!

Tbf, "you know who x is?" isn't a great opener if you're talking to another guy either.

I socialize a lot and know that if the people hosting and attending a party are playing top 40 hits or are set on nostalgia trips it’s best to just enjoy it and not bring up anything music related.

Yeah I mean would you really want to play anything too “challenging” or “interesting” if you were hosting a party; especially for a v diverse crowd? Guess this would be a good thread topic...

@Niels, in case i'm correct in assuming you're danish, have you ever struck up a conversation with the guy that owns Second Beat on Jagtvej?

Maybe he actually is that Niels?

I definitley arrived at a stage where I just didn't want to talk to people about music anymore. It was less about not finding anyone who shared my tastes and more about the way people always seemed to go to the same clichés in discussing the stuff, whether they were into Indie or Chartpop or Hip-Hop or Jazz or whatever - "I like music that has soul", "current music is too cookie-cutter", etc.

I think clubbing got me out of that muddle, because it provided me w/ a group of friends and acquaintances that were really into finding the Next Big Thing, which sounds obnoxious in retrospect but that sorta forward momentum, the thrill of discovery, really kept convos from falling into these clichés.

it’s harder to find someone who is enthusiastic about a band like say, Captain Beefheart or Can or Stereolab the real world.
finding fellow Can fans is one of the best feelings :) speaking of, I just started reading Rob Young's Can book (written with Irmin Schmidt) and should prob bump one of the 1000 can threads to talk about it because it is so enjoyable!!!

also i don't believe there is anything juvenile about music itself. that's kind of silly. even if the way some people display their appreciation of it is a carry-over from their younger days, that doesn't make liking music juvenile.

I go to metal shows all the time and usually drunkenly make new friends as we just talk about music we love. it's like a fountain of youth for me sometimes.

I've made about ten new permanent friends this way in the last two years.

if you are at a party and they are playing top 40 hits or "nostalgia" (ie. the music everyone in the world grew up with) then don't those count as music too? if not and you can't bring yourself down from babbling on about Can or Steve Reich or whatever then maybe you are just a snob.

also if you could talk Can to every grandpa you see while grocery shopping it wouldn't be very special. talk about Madonna now so that you may talk about Captain Beefheart later. it's called compromising to find common ground with other people.

finding fellow Can fans is one of the best feelings :) speaking of, I just started reading Rob Young's Can book (written with Irmin Schmidt) and should prob bump one of the 1000 can threads to talk about it because it is so enjoyable!!!

I've had this exact experience with Wire, having just read the Read & Burn biography.

When I encounter someone irl who wants to talk about classical music I just about lose my shit (though outwardly playing it cool obv)

This almost never happens though

long x=post to tombot: bored at work i've totally thought that a mystery series set in a used record store would be a good idea. if i knew how to write fiction....

(with every title an album title obviously...)

https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/1ChuFe0QwnLiODfT0TfK0w/ls.jpg

Scott I’ll write it and ask you constant questions re telling details and verisimilitudes. We can be the Lincoln child and somebody Preston of the mid 21st

When I encounter someone irl who wants to talk about classical music I just about lose my shit (though outwardly playing it cool obv)

This almost never happens though

― when worlds collide I'll see you again (Jon not Jon), Sunday, April 1, 2018 1:29 PM

cosign

He realized with a start that the center hole had been bored out by 0.8mm. The hairs on his forearms stood on end.

pomenitul u know what to do if you are ever in nyc :)

Happily noted!

Wait, Jon not Jon lives in NYC?

xp I am not that Nils and I never met him either but I might pass by his store next time I'm in Copenhagen, seems nice

would watch Tombot's Scott thriller...

I have on a few occasions met other Dylan fans who were fans in a way very similar to how I am a Dylan fan, and it's always been a great pleasure, once we both figured out that we were completely on the level, to just ramble on about good old Bob

the one old co-worker i still talk to from indiana is the guy i talk to about music. i just get excited, like, i want to tell somebody about the pentangle kick i've been on lately, and jack orion, and all that other cool shit, and most people i can't. he's an indie guy but i give him cds of random stuff and occasionally he'll hear something like "royston rose" and say "dude that is awesome do you have anything more like it", and i don't really because i have no idea why royston rose grabbed his attention and, like, john's children don't, but he's really enthusiastic about music and that's why it's so much fun to talk to him about it. when i went back to visit we hung out and i gave him a copy of all my beatles covers and talked about the cornelius concert i'd just been to.

Around 20 years ago(!), I was sitting in my apartment with my friend Mike, late on a Friday night, listening to some Beach Boys tapes... the lights were low, it was an extremely mellow vibe (I was smoking pot; Mike was sober, but in a similar headspace). We were getting deep about the music, and just kind riffing/rambling, building on each other’s thoughts.

Suddenly, my roommate came home with her very drunk and bro-ish bf. This dude took in the scene – Mike was saying something like, “There are so many aspects of Americana which remain unexplored...” – and began aggressively busting our chops: “What the hell are you guys doing? What are you even talking about?!” etc.

Moral: gabbing about music can be gr8 w/a sympatico bud, but that path can also be imperiled if your roommate is dating a dick.

that goes beyond the talking about music IRL sphere, but i deeply sympathize with that unsettling feeling of a magical feeling being completely ruined by someone who regularly uses "weird" as a pejorative

Xpost James - I do! Near the Lorimer L. I was at the wins in nyc fap!

if you are at a party and they are playing top 40 hits or "nostalgia" (ie. the music everyone in the world grew up with) then don't those count as music too? if not and you can't bring yourself down from babbling on about Can or Steve Reich or whatever then maybe you are just a snob.

― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau)

No, you missed my point! You need to find the right audience to get excited about music. With the wrong audience you're just in for a boring exchange or you risk coming out as a snob (or crashing into one). With my closest friends it's usually nostalgia talk and I'm fine talking about songs from our childhood or how much Pink Floyd rules but it's only fun at first... after a while talking to the same people about the same albums every time we see each other it becomes dull and I'm fine with not having to talk about music with them really. But bumping into someone who I know I can geek out with or meeting new people and learning they are I dunno Iggy Pop fans when none of my closest friends even know who he is, well it's like finding an oasis in the desert.

Concerning my closest friends they are like 30+ nowadays and they already suffer from gatekeeping so talking about top 40 music is just an invitation to spend the next 30 minutes complaining about how music was better when we were younger - which I think is a terrible lie, but again: know your audience. Trying to convince them to open up and to see the value of it or just enjoy it is worthless. They're really just not that interested in music, neither current trends nor less mainstream music from the decades and genres that they seem to adore.

Now with younger friends or even talking with random people or djs at my nightclub I can get to talk about top 40 hits yet I don't know if it's a cultural thing here in latin america but it's more common to show appreciation to a song by dancing hard and singing to it than talking about it. For the past year almost 95% of the top 40 music has become 'latin urban' which is pretty much reggaeton and a bit of trap... I have yet to have a meaningful conversation about these genres and their biggest icons with anyone in real life.
I'm genuinely a fan of say Rompiendo Sky's productions for J Balvin (love his more minimal approach in reggaeton beat-making in tracks like Safari, Ginza, Downtown) but every time a song like his current hit 'Downtown' is played and I want to talk about it, the only answer coming from the other side is "yeah love this song" so we just dance instead.

Again it's not that I just want to geek out about Can or whatever obscure band I'm crazy about. It's that it's very enjoyable to find people with that extra interest in music, and I'm also happy to talk about Pink Floyd or Coldplay or Despacito in real life if that's what you want to talk about. I wont be pretentious about it, but it's also fairly boring to talk with people who are not really interested in the topic. So again, you just have to read their actual interests, if they're not into discussing music at all well I wont engage... we just move on to other topics. Otherwise it's going to be pretentious and/or boring.

Since most people have "taste freeze" by the time their 40, I find I have to take that into account when talking about music with strangers and acquaintances. I might throw out something like "I've been into band/genre lately" and see if I get any response. I agree that it's terribly exciting to find a fellow traveller - I knew I found one when I walked into a new co-worker's office and he's got a turntable and LPs at work!

I'm far more cautious when it comes to revealing that I still buy comics and graphic novels at this late date. Regular folks just can't grasp that.

You should come hang over at I Love Comics .com

Often when I recommend a new album to someone I work with (or otherwise vaguely know), they ask "Which track should I start with?"

It's like -- I'm not f'in Casey Kasem, just start at the beginning! Albums come pre-sequenced for your convenience, why not just trust that?

#amirite

Feels like they’re being honest in telling you they’re not gonna listen for more than a couple minutes

I genuinely think they intend to, that's just how they approach albums! IDGI

(I recommended the new Billie E. album to someone today, and she started with the title track – good choice! – but why, it’s like track 13)

every single time i recommend something, they have not only heard of it, but they know much more than me and actually what i like is bad

i have stopped recommending music - i no longer care

EVERY SINGLE TIME

ok, it's only happened a couple times. but damn, it hurts. :(

what artists?

the "which track?" thing, Spotify (or whatever, i assume) play counts are very handy here

Since high school, I haven't had much success recommending music to other people - it just goes the other way. I still try though, for some reason. My biggest success was getting a friend very very into the 1975

i was on dalnet once sometime when mp3s were new maybe around 1999 when this dude pops into our mp3 channel asking if there was anything cool we recommended. he didn't like nothin' I suggested. like, at all. when I finally got flustered and asked the annoying fuck what he *did* like, he just kept yammering on about the Dirty Dancing soundtrack. it's so good, maaaan, it has music from all eras, Eric Carmen and Bill Medley made big comebacks, I wish there was more like it! so after he shit on like my sixth suggestion and said it just wasn't his "cup of mutton", whatever the fuck that means, I said "well you know there were a few unreleased Dirty Dancing tracks". and his eyes widen, well I assume they did cos I couldn't actually see him but he asks me more and I"m like well they were recorded for the movie but they didn't make the cut - I thought you knew about these, being a Dirty Dancing fan. so he starts putting on a show and saying oh yeah those tracks, I know of em, but there's one I could never find and I'm like which one and he's like clearly afraid to answer cos he's lying (obviously cos these tracks don't exist) and I say "oh, was it 'Love Like Water' by Patrick Swayze, and he thinks he's got an out and he's like "YEAAAH, that one", and I'm like well shit, I got the mp3 right here, want it? I won't even make u wait in queue.

so i send it to him and he's thanking me, saying most rubes didn't appreciate the Dirty Dancing soundtrack and its sonic palette, and all this pretentious shit, while I'm sending him an mp3 clearly labeled "Dirty Dancing (Bonus Kuttz) - Patrick Swayze - Love Like Water", and cos of the year, well, it takes like 25 mins to d/l, so he thanks me and leaves after it finishes. then two minutes later he rejoins the dalnet mp3 channel and types F U over and over until he gets banned cos I had really just sent him Anal Cunt's cover of Manowar's "Gloves of Metal"

The Aristocats

Sounds like an I Think You Should Leave sketch

kids are never gonna appreciate how chaotic the early days of MP3 downloading here

anyway one fun thing I've learned is when chatting at the record store is I have no idea how to pronounce a bunch of my favorite artists' names

I think I’ve posted that exact thing here somewhere at some point. It feels like an experience all music geeks encounter.

Oh! Sweet mutton

Did I tell you guys the one about the time I asked a question about The Placemats and Record Store Guy got annoyed and said "They're called The Replacments!"