the fall vs kanye west

what's the dave q parallel here?

highly visible musician enabled to make their shit-stirring remarks in public?

i get to vote for kanye in something and not be a total hater!

highly visible musician

what planet are you from where mark e smith is a 'highly visible musician'?

(and how do i stay the fuck away from it?)

haha i'm willfully bending reality here to try to make sense of this

anyway

The infotainment scan > My beautiful dark twisted fantasy

Spoilt Victorian Child = Hell of a life?

think mes could learn something from "Drive Slow" though

voted kanye

try 2 think 'beyond the image'
'beyond the pose'
2 the real person
2 the real music
who is more vital?

i think the more important issue here is whether mark e. smith would sound good over kanye beats

it's a relevant question for sure

what planet are you from where mark e smith is a 'highly visible musician'?

― history mayne, Thursday, 10 March 2011 18:17 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

(and how do i stay the fuck away from it?)

― history mayne, Thursday, 10 March 2011 18:17 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

Mark E Smith of The Fall on BBC Culture Show March 2007

Would happily pay money to see Kanye drunkenly insult Mumford and Sons and throw a bottle at them on live TV.

imma just fess up and say i don't really like the fall!

i like the fall and most of what i know by kanye

guessing i know about 15% of their respective recorded outputs

both Kanye and Smith are hard to stomach as far as personalities go. amazing artists of course

I dunno man, despite the level of sonic invention, Kanye albums are about being Kanye; despite MES's media personality, yr average Fall album is about the whole world and all its trash and treasure. The Fall are simultaneously street and avant to an extent that was never elsewhere matched IMO until the height of hip-hop, and are still more richly allusive, physical and fun than almost any recording act ever.

that is a really flowery way of saying "I like The Fall more than I like Kanye"

that's a really ungenerous way of saying nothing

yr average Fall album is about the whole world and all its trash and treasure. The Fall are simultaneously street and avant to an extent that was never elsewhere matched IMO until the height of hip-hop, and are still more richly allusive, physical and fun than almost any recording act ever.

this is pretty concise im sure u can find a million blogposts/quietus articles saying the same thing in paragraphs

i'd like to love the fall as much as u do cuz i sympathize with the argument, but i'm not sure the irl fall matches the idea

for me it does, I mean some of these records I've been listening to for 26 years yet they're still giving and unfolding (and not in a 'I finally get this prog suite on the 39th listen!' kind of way either)

I guess I was trying to say Fall records actually function (for me) rather similarly to hip-hop records so whereas if you said Melvins vs. Kanye both sides would gain apples vs. oranges unique advantages, but with Fall vs. Kanye it's NOT so apples and oranges, and The Fall are simply stronger. All totally subjective IMO etc.

Also yeah a lot of ppl are viscerally irritated by MES' delivery; similarly, while not irritated, I don't really like Kanye's rapping as rapping, which is a pretty big debit for me as a listener

The point is you can look at Kanye as a metaphor for the exact same type of argument. An extreme Kanye fan could substitute "Kanye" for "The Fall" and hold pretty much the exact same opinion with little to no cognitive dissonance; there isn't actually anything in that argument that distinguishes The Fall from Kanye, just a poetic affirmation that The Fall's iteration of these tropes works better for Jon than Kanye's.

There is a reasonable (IMO) argument to be made re: place & time giving The Fall more importance than Kanye, but it's also difficult to judge considering how long The Fall have been around in comparison to Kanye.

The point is you can look at Kanye as a metaphor for the exact same type of argument. An extreme Kanye fan could substitute "Kanye" for "The Fall" and hold pretty much the exact same opinion with little to no cognitive dissonance; there isn't actually anything in that argument that distinguishes The Fall from Kanye, just a poetic affirmation that The Fall's iteration of these tropes works better for Jon than Kanye's.

the tropes aren't shared tho, cf kanye's solipsism vs smith's relentless cataloguing of the material world, nor does kanye work as street/avant

you can trace the inheritance of fall via beckett/artaud or the sonics/x ray specs, whereas kanye's experimental tendency seems more like the sort of pop-symphonism of brian wilson

I like more Fall songs than Kanye songs, even if you just took the Fall down to their first five albums, so The Fall.

I'll take Late Registration over Dragnet, though

difficult to judge considering how long The Fall have been around in comparison to Kanye

This! Of course. I do have a huge weakness for generous long-producing artists with massive piles of work I can wallow around in Uncle Scrooge-style.

don't u mean scrooge mcduck?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ADnTkUEYRBU/So1eQdF3tII/AAAAAAAAAB4/IsZ4isBFHNM/s320/scrooge-mcduck.jpg

"Their guest is a Euroswag magnate,
how flair is punished!"

http://www.hypebeast.com/image/2008/12/kanye-west-snl-appearance-03.jpg

Kanye West is fucking horrible, The Fall are geniuses.

In the interview, Smith complains about playing festival shows with bands comprised of "ass lickers." Then, this: "We were playing a festival in Dublin the other week. There was this other group, like, warming up in the next sort of chalet, and they were terrible. I said, 'Shut them cunts up!' And they were still warming up, so I threw a bottle at them. The bands said, 'That's the Sons of Mumford' or something. 'They're number five in charts!' I just thought they were a load of retarded Irish folk singers." The man truly has a way with words.

this is pretty funny, but i can imagine exactly the same thing said by ian brown or liam gallagher

don't think mes should be commended for instigating the caterwauling northern drunk archetype within the music industry

His interview persona is pretty dud. At least since about 2004 or so.

that's the only mes i know

so u mean before that he was sober, concilliatory and challop-free?

well, you can be mercurial and drunk as a young person but eventually u just end up being drunk

something about the difference between a plucky upstart and a ponderous elder statesman too i guess

thus spake metternich

wasn't smith a speed freak as a youngun too?

so the story goes. he was skinny enough and twas the fashion at the time but everything's mythology yeah?

In interviews it didn't used to be all defense mechanism/stonewall/same shit restated every time. His media persona changed after the new young lineup started. He used to actually talk about stuff.

Also I don't think there is any doubt whether he was on speed throughout the greatest Fall lyrics period 1979-80something. Like Dylan, it got the best out of him.

i just meant tru or not it seems an irrelevancy

ya i think it fits into that tired critical narco-determinism

http://twitter.com/#!/kanyewest/status/372560831193088

as a strict determinist I figure drug lore is an irrelevant subset of occasional note

feel like kanye needs to go through a laudunum phase

The Fall and MES are not interchangeable.

no it's the rest of the band that's interchangeable

i dunno, mes just released an awesome album and kanye just released a shitty one

i really hope kanye lives to his sixth decade, by which time he better be either a scott walker level reclusive genius ~or~ the fattest, most repugnant, most scurrilous cokehead ephepobile in the entertainent industry, else he can choke

oh god if yr gonna call someone a 50 y/o ephebo at least spell it right damn son

gonna have to vote in this one

god dont u have better things to do

Graduation vs. Grotesque
808s vs. Enduction
Fantasy vs. Slates

The Fall triumph.

i like both these options! they're both hilarious and piss people off. think i'll have to vote for the fall just based on history though.

god dont u have better things to do

― maxwell's silva hamartia (nakhchivan), Thursday, 10 March 2011 23:11 (17 minutes ago)

yeah hence the reluctant force of my post

Need to consider this: is Kanye still going to releasing terrific albums in twenty five years time?

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yay!

lol

the fall of kanye west

who could wing against The Fall on ilm? James Brown?