Has this been done here?
We know who the big 4 are, but who would be the next four..
We were at work the other day pondering this. Those are the big 4 due to thier success in the genre on a world stage. But who do you think is right behind them. You don't need top rank em, cuz that shit is impossible to agree on, but what can we say about the next lot!?!
imo...
TestamentExodusSepulturaKreator
Most would say Overkill I'm sure, but I can't stand them.. lol
― SeanWayne, Tuesday, 12 April 2011 22:52 (fourteen years ago)
i can promise you no-one will agree whatever happens :)
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Tuesday, 12 April 2011 22:53 (fourteen years ago)
Testament, Destruction, Exodus, Kreator, in my opinion.
― A. Begrand, Tuesday, 12 April 2011 22:58 (fourteen years ago)
Testament, Overkill, Exodus, Sepultura, basically
― \o_o/.... ,o_o,.... o_oC.... /o_o\ (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 12 April 2011 23:01 (fourteen years ago)
On a related subject... I recentally have been hearing this, 'Exodus, thee first thrash band'... They were doing it before everyone else just got signed after, its a hard call..
― SeanWayne, Tuesday, 12 April 2011 23:04 (fourteen years ago)
i thought possessed was the first thrash band or the first death metal band, but they were def the first something...and the dude from primus was in that band i think
― a fort minor forest (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 12 April 2011 23:05 (fourteen years ago)
Voivod should be in there.
― President Keyes, Tuesday, 12 April 2011 23:09 (fourteen years ago)
yes Larry LaLonde from Primus was in Possessed..
Possesed is wierd cuz I guess in a evolutionary stand you might go Vemon-Slayer-Possessed-death metal, but you could go Venom-Possessed-black metal too, maybe
Voivod were a little too progressive imo to be thrash.. Prog metal with thrash tendencies maybe.. lol!
― SeanWayne, Tuesday, 12 April 2011 23:23 (fourteen years ago)
A Begrand OTM. Voivod as good as any of them but left-field, not really a "thrash band" in the same sense
― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 12 April 2011 23:40 (fourteen years ago)
Voivod weren't really prog on their first two albums, though (and maybe not their third and fourth -- or at least, no more prog than Metallica on their third and especially fourth.)
I was going to nominate Celtic Frost, but I guess they got pretty left-field pretty fast too (and arguably started out more proto-death/black-metal than thrash? I still don't know where to draw those lines.)
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 00:58 (fourteen years ago)
SeanWayne's first post, I'd venture to guess, is OTM
Honorable mentions to Forbidden & Nuclear Assault, but neither has a very consistent catalog.
I associate Possessed w/ the black/death metal continuum for sure, but their first album is easily one of the best of the era.
― Grotjahn in the Moma (Pillbox), Wednesday, 13 April 2011 02:57 (fourteen years ago)
Oh, and Flotsam & Jetsam, but again, the consistency thing.. Doomsday for the Deceiver is all time, tho
― Grotjahn in the Moma (Pillbox), Wednesday, 13 April 2011 02:58 (fourteen years ago)
yeah, I'd through Celtic Frost more black metal leaning...
For the record, Vio-lence my all time fav of the lot, but maybe didn't do enough to be a contender, at least in this..
― SeanWayne, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 17:36 (fourteen years ago)
Serious question, though (I honestly don't know the answer): To what extent were death and black metal actually distinguished from thrash in people's minds in the mid '80s? I get the idea that they were all basically lumped together until the '90s, or at least very late '80s, but maybe I just wasn't paying close attention to the right people. In the glossary in the back of The Collector's Guide To Heavy Metal, published in '97 or so I think, Martin Popoff still seems to be acting like "thrash" and "black metal" are synonyms. So I get the idea that (just like with say "techno," or "metal" itself) the consensus definition, if there even is one, got more specific over time, in retrospect. (For what it's worth, whether they're considered "thrash" or not, Celtic Frost and Voivod are easily my favorite bands on this thread -- hell, I'd probably put them both up against anybody in the "big four," a couple of which have never sounded more to mediocre to me.)
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 17:56 (fourteen years ago)
..more than mediocre to me
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 17:58 (fourteen years ago)
For thrash, its the old school foot hold in original Hardcore and the NWOBHM... when things got a bit more techy, and the vox started to drop in pitch, it becomes Death Metal.. You go for just speed and very very feroscious playing with the deeper vox- grindcore.. that same speed but a little more 'cut and dry' w/ lyrics about the vikings and church burnings-Black Metal?(excuse my ignorance... lol)
The synonym could be attributed to the early stuff especially when you consider Venom, Cetic Frost, and Possessed, who are precursors to later stuff that would define the sub genres
For my money, Death is text book definition, death Metal..and I'd even say first proper DM in the way they Judus Priest the first proper Metal band
― SeanWayne, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 18:12 (fourteen years ago)
godamn... I can't spell.. LOL!
― SeanWayne, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 19:00 (fourteen years ago)
well, you are a drummer!! ;)
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 19:10 (fourteen years ago)
Okay, I really don't know shit about thrash outside of the big 4 + sepultura and a few others, but if I say Coroner, will I get 1,000 OTMs? I fucking hope so.
― kkvgz, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 19:11 (fourteen years ago)
Coroner fucking rules! they were blurring the line of Death metal and Thrash for sure, and pretty techy too..
― SeanWayne, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 19:13 (fourteen years ago)
Gama BombBonded By BloodViolatorMunicipal Waste
― 'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 13 April 2011 19:15 (fourteen years ago)
Okay, not really.
ExodusTestamentOverkillKreator
― 'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 13 April 2011 19:16 (fourteen years ago)
I feel like I remember in the 80s most writers were calling all of this stuff Speed Metal.
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 19:22 (fourteen years ago)
and no-one ever did explain the difference between thrash metal & speed metal
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 19:23 (fourteen years ago)
Oh my god, this guy from X Japan reminds me so much of Kirk Hammett. Can you see it?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/25/Xjapan2010.JPG
― kkvgz, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 19:27 (fourteen years ago)
I think it was a thing where Speed metal was ajust a term for the faster metal, but after further review and the realisation that there was more going on than just speed, thrash was more better... yes, I said more better!lol
One could aurgue that Voi-lence, Sodom, Sadus could be speed metal, simply due to there use of more blasting than slower tempos, especially Sadus-they're were easily the fastest around here...
― SeanWayne, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 19:28 (fourteen years ago)
I really need to slow down on my typing, jesus!
And yeah Kerr, I'm a drummer, thanks! lol! fucking caveman, right?
― SeanWayne, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 19:30 (fourteen years ago)
yeah i was gonna say its not your spelling is your problem, its just typing but i couldn't resist the drummer joke!
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 19:31 (fourteen years ago)
Don't fight it!! lol! Its all good, brother.. Dreads and a full beard don't help my caveman status either, btw
― SeanWayne, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 19:35 (fourteen years ago)
is its a beard from hell?
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 19:43 (fourteen years ago)
ba-dum tish
― 'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 13 April 2011 19:44 (fourteen years ago)
HA! Its getting there.. I'm waiting for my old lady to say, 'thats enough!'.. lol!
― SeanWayne, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 19:45 (fourteen years ago)
Speaking of bearded metal dudes, while I was walking back from lunch a tiny zip car stopped at the light while I was waiting to cross and it was four big, bearded, burly, flannel-clad, and tattoed dudes rocking out to Kylesa. It was awesome.
― 'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 13 April 2011 19:49 (fourteen years ago)
did you whip them a devil sign?
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 23:51 (fourteen years ago)
http://www.warheadshop.webs.com/Patch_archivos/PATCHspeedmetal.jpg
― m0stlyClean, Thursday, 14 April 2011 03:14 (fourteen years ago)
^^^.. wtf?
― SeanWayne, Thursday, 14 April 2011 03:15 (fourteen years ago)
honorable mentions: Suicidal, D.R.I., S.O.D, M.O.D., Vio-lence, Death Angel, Coroner, Forbidden, Nuclear Assault, Sacred Reich... Eh, the more I think about it, I don't really have any real idea which of those groups were the most successful in terms of sales vs. influence, though. Hindsight is 20/20, too, because groups like Nuclear Assault and Sacred Reich are pretty much unlistenable today, but seemed like they were everywhere back then.
― rockapads, Thursday, 14 April 2011 03:53 (fourteen years ago)
nuclear assault was a merciless live machine
― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 14 April 2011 04:25 (fourteen years ago)
That's the old speed metal logo that Canada's legendary Banzai Records used on some of its early pressings.
http://www.banzai-records.duludepostprod.com/speedmetal.html
― A. Begrand, Thursday, 14 April 2011 05:06 (fourteen years ago)
xxp: Nuclear Assault's Handle w/ Care & the first record by Forbidden are total classics which have stood the test of time along w/ any thrash album that is not MoP, RtL, RiB or RiP ImO
― car's not yellow, it's chicken (Pillbox), Thursday, 14 April 2011 05:14 (fourteen years ago)
also: M.O.D. kinda sucked iirc
― car's not yellow, it's chicken (Pillbox), Thursday, 14 April 2011 05:18 (fourteen years ago)
i mean, at least, comparatively
― car's not yellow, it's chicken (Pillbox), Thursday, 14 April 2011 05:19 (fourteen years ago)
should also mention: Honestly, I think Kreator or Sepultura would be a more suitable member of the BIG FOUR than Anthrax. Not to dis on Anthrax, but they have really spanned the gamut over their career: NWOBHM copyists to speed/power-metal to thrash (A+ for AtL) to rap/metal progenitors back to thrash (one shit album, another goodish album), onto whatever they did beyond the early 90s
but then, we are not judging any of these bands beyond the early 90s, right?
― car's not yellow, it's chicken (Pillbox), Thursday, 14 April 2011 06:33 (fourteen years ago)
my first reaction to that logo was 'wtf' too
when did the 'big four of thrash' title come about?
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 14 April 2011 15:15 (fourteen years ago)
they were really popular with my friends at the time for some reason, but yeah they sucked. Speak English or Die seems to pass the test of time, though.
― rockapads, Thursday, 14 April 2011 16:06 (fourteen years ago)
Still waiting for somebody to answer this, fwiw:
To what extent were death and black metal actually distinguished from thrash in people's minds in the mid '80s? I get the idea that they were all basically lumped together until the '90s....in '97 or so I think, Martin Popoff still seems to be acting like "thrash" and "black metal" are synonyms.
Again, I'm not asking what the differences between the sub-genres are in people mind's now (I'm pretty clear on that); I'm asking whether, in the '80s or even early '90s, people tended to acknowledge those differences, or ignore them.
― xhuxk, Thursday, 14 April 2011 16:12 (fourteen years ago)
man i wish coroner got more love in general, like my personal next big 4 would be testament kreator coroner sepultura but im pretty sure that isnt really accurate xposts
― broke my o_O face o_O (jjjusten), Thursday, 14 April 2011 16:13 (fourteen years ago)
xp to xhuxk: I'm no music writer, but my own personal experience as a metalhead kid growing up in the midwest and Texas: The first time I ever heard the term "thrash" was in the mid 80s, a few guys from California referring to their own little clique as "thrashers", as in the skate magazine I guess. these guys introduced me to Suicidal Tendencies, Dead Kennedys, and super-long Hawaiian shorts. I think the next I heard the term it was being used to describe Death Angel and Exodus. I never associated Slayer, Megadeath, or Metallica with the term "thrash" until later, though Anthrax seemed to fit the bill, especially around the State of Euphoria time.
Death metal and "grindcore" (which I associated with the Grind Crusher compilation), were both terms friends and public/college radio DJs used to describe death metal in '89-'91, at least where I lived at the time (Texas). I did read a lot of metal magazines at the time, but I don't remember ever seeing death metal referenced, except in seedy-looking advertisements in their back sections.
I never heard the term "black metal" used to describe a genre until the mid/late 90's (I spent most of the 90s being obsessed with other types of music, so I wasn't really paying attention to metal). Don't know if that's what you were looking for, but it was fun to reminisce!
― rockapads, Thursday, 14 April 2011 17:45 (fourteen years ago)
The first time I ever heard the term "thrash" was in the mid 80s, a few guys from California referring to their own little clique as "thrashers", as in the skate magazine I guess.
Yeah, back then I thought Thrash Metal was made exclusively by bands who wore shorts.
― President Keyes, Thursday, 14 April 2011 18:16 (fourteen years ago)
I was looking through my old Creem Metal clips in the late '80s, and I kept using goofy terms like "speedthrashdeathmetalcore" to describe bands. Also called Voivod and Celtic Frost "Nuke-metal", and the kind of shitty Agnostic Front/Crumbsuckers style bands that would later regularly get classified as "crossover" were mostly "heavycore" to me. (I pretty much hated anything that reminded me remotely of generic hardcore moshpit music, and since I'd been listening to bands mixing up hardcore with metal at least since 1981 or so, the idea of mixing bad hardcore with bad metal a half decade later really didn't impress me much.) Anyway, I definitely knew and used the phrase "death-metal" in the '80s (even in the Village Voice), but I don't think I saw it as any different from "speed-metal" or "thrash." They were all the same thing, to me.)
― xhuxk, Thursday, 14 April 2011 18:51 (fourteen years ago)
I remember thrash and hardcore being used pretty much interchangeably from the early eighties. FWIW Wikipedia tells me that Thrasher magazine was founded in 1981.
― Soukesian, Thursday, 14 April 2011 18:55 (fourteen years ago)
Voivod always reminded me of another overlooked band. Die Kreuzen - whose first was arguably the finest early(ish) hardcore punk album
― Jessie Fer Ark (Mobbed Up Ping Pong Psychos), Thursday, 14 April 2011 21:34 (fourteen years ago)
Any of you heroes care to recommend me any bands in the weirdo Die Kreuzen/Voivod veinApologies if this is slightly off thread
― Jessie Fer Ark (Mobbed Up Ping Pong Psychos), Thursday, 14 April 2011 21:54 (fourteen years ago)
United Mutation, YDI, maybe?
― a fucking stove just fell on my foot. (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 14 April 2011 22:03 (fourteen years ago)