Somebody please explain the appeal of Peter Hook please

(he is a frustrated pop-synth player surely?)

"We saw the Sex Pistols at the Feee Trade Hall. They were terrible!! We wanted to be up on that stage and be terrible too!!" I wuv em but they were/are the apotheosis of anti-technique DIY surely?

but yeah, the total rehabilitation of synth since the 70s renders the qualification an unclarification - how unlike me, heh!!

I don't know, just take yourself back to whenever it was and imagine hearing "She's lost control" being played for the first time, that minimalist industrial drum beat coupled with the weirdest unnatural but most ass kicking bass line you've ever heard. Bleak, punk music you could shake your hips to, originality created from despair.

Sure he should have developed his style and I'd rather listen to "Lessons in Love" by Level 42 that hear yet another Hook bass intro to another crap New Order song, but Hook fucked shit up with New Order.

Joy Division are one of the ONLY people in the entire rock genre where one can listen to ALL the lines - bass, vocal, guitar, drums - as equally interesting melodies (or perhaps syncopations) around a central beat. The best jazz and the best classical only occasionaly does this.

The fact that thes four lads did such great things out of a mixture of 'get up and do it' naivety and 'I want to be heard too' egotism, rather than musical education, only makes the achievement more extraordinary.

That's why Hooky is so great.

'Maybe Hook was playing like a guitarist because Bernie was playing like a bassist?'

Nice one.
Brilliant. I've ale

I praised Hook on the "influence" thread because of how that guitar or bass sound has formed the basis for so much stuff I enjoy. It's perhaps personal, but I really can't escape it: with something like "ICBM" on the first New Order record I could listen to that punching two-chord switch for hours.

Err it sort of strips all of the "natural" "this is a bass guitar" sounds out of the bass, and leaves you with something more like "this is a bass part for any occasion."

In an era populated by the likes of Level 42's Mark King and his sterile "i'm a great bass player, in fact i'm brilliant" fingerobatics, it was refreshing (for me anyways) to have Hooky up there banging it out, a nice simple melody that drives the tune along.

Bless his stubbly, sullen heart.

Dave: I don't know that people actually idolize Hook as a good player. Do they? I'm under no illusion that there was anything personally brilliant or masterful about Hook himself -- he's just the flag-waver for a particular style that I'm really really fond of. (Hence my tagging him on the "influence" thread: it can be Robert Smith playing it on 6-string bass or the Jesus and Mary Chain with their Hooky guitar solos or even the high-end bass part from Ned's Atomic Dustbin -- I just like the sound of it.)

if you listen to lead guitar work done outside the mainstream (and indeed even some of that) in the past twenty years a lot of it has the spectre of peter hook (and less obviously barney as well) hanging over it. his somewhat wonky phrasing inadvertently shifted the way of things from led-zeppelin-blues-based-pentatonic-wank to seven note scale stuff (proper major and minor scales). this style has pervaded the indie rock genre (and all those other things like post rock)and by the way, it's one of the main reasons you can tell mogwai from creed.

Hook’s work in Joy Division is superior to that of New Order. Why? Cuz in Joy Division it was still fresh, with New Order it became somewhat...old. There is still some great NO tracks though, “Lets Go”, “Age Of Consent”, “Johnny 1964”.

incidentally this kind of bass playing came to manchester via PERE UBU (tho whoever it was pointed out j.j.burnel's role in paternity had a not-bad point also) (chris squire also likes the high frets)

And I do think this is sort of a burning question: there's been so much effort put into distinctive or signature guitar sounds over the past two decades, but not very much on the bass end. Obviously the role of the bass in your average four-piece band makes it a lot harder to futz with, but you'd think there'd have been more invention going on with it.

oh god please give me a break. do people cry about alternate tunings, too?

mark you're earlier comment abt synths had me sputtering but this one - oh yes.
I started to think about chris squire while reading this thread: I still find his 70's solo album very listenable in places - and I've played it in the background whilst in the company of a Prog-Hating Burnel/Hooky bass fans (bass players in fact)- and they've been mortified after expressing interest/liking it haha

Dave q could you mention some bands/songs which have bass playing you really like - who's Rick Fletcher?
What's the position on the Stanley Clarke/Return To Forever type of bass-playing: too much like a guitarist?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkYveRd5DwU

well i chuckled

i loved it too.

Lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaKgaxQCac0

http://www.slicingupeyeballs.com/2010/08/13/peter-hook-unknown-pleasures-tour-dates-the-light/

when I first hear about this I said "no way" but the video is kind of compelling. tribute band no doubt, but still.

I'm glad, in retrospect, that I did get to see New Order do a lot of JD material during their final tour.

peter hook is punk fucking rock.

Too bad we can't really say this in 2010, can we?

(Also, dave q is/was brilliant.)

where is he these days

Heard this for the first time in a while this morning and thought it really sounded like a Joy Division track. Except in a major key. The bass intro and the tone of the bass, the treatment on the drums, the way the guitar fills in like a keyboard, Natalie's phrasing, the whole thing is very JD-influenced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CI7IuB8ZUY

"so there's no sustain and no bottom end"

people can hate whatevs they want, but this is kinda glaring to me. no bottom end? in joy division songs?

Let's not get too carried away here. How many acts from the 50's and 60's re-recorded their hits (without their original lineups) for cheapo oldies compilations? Did they all ruin their reputations forever? Hook might be a dumbass, but this doesn't mean anything in the long run. Nobody will even remember this in a year's time.

i don't think it diminishes the quality of the old stuff....it's very easily ignored

it's just this whole period has been commemorated in tedious length via nw england's miserabilist bro culture, and peter hook is the one of worst offenders

Oh dreary me

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/nov/25/peter-hook-joy-division-songs

yr all talking abt the wrong late70s/80s musician called peter

Let's not get too carried away here. How many acts from the 50's and 60's re-recorded their hits (without their original lineups) for cheapo oldies compilations?

how any of these acts had made auterist, album-age works that would compare to unknown pleasures and closer? I mean, don't get me wrong. of all my friends, I'm the one who cares least about Joy Division. I'm sure I could sing about 2/3 of either of those albums from memory, just having sat around listening to them back when we were all discovering them, but I never owned either one. my passions lay elsewhere. but those two records, be that as it may, are sort of monuments to the album age; they are finished works. what Hook is doing compares almost exactly to Lucas fucking with Star Wars; it's assholism. I'll only really think about it onthread; if Nick Cave goes and fucks with the Mutiny! EP, then you'll hear a proper howl of grief. but still. this is just pretty gross.

Ban the Cure, Joy Division, and Gang of Four imo

Burma can stay as their latter work's as good as their earlier

actually they are listed in the right order above!

cure > jd > go4 > burma

also we can talk about "moving forward creatively" all we want, but i'd rather watch peter hook fuck ian's corpse onstage than listen to The Sound The Speed The Light ever again... my god that is a horrible album

yeah but aren't you the kinda guy who if he saw a peter hook project and he didn't play some joy division, you'd be disappointed?

that would probably be a better zing left at 'the kinda guy who would see a peter hook project'

why would i go see a peter hook project in 2010 ever?

xp

i've been listening to a TON of gang of four lately. sounds so great right now.

new order and joy division are and were godly to me, but i stopped paying attention after technique came out and i'm good with that. haven't even heard an album after that and don't really feel a need to. thought The Other Two was possibly the saddest - and kinda funniest - side-project name in history. peter hook can do whatever he wants. i own all the good stuff.

maybe he should do a johnny marr & lend his hand to younger bands, but he probably smells a bit funny

scott i can't believe you haven't at least heard republic, it is secretly one of new order's best albums (even if i'm the only one who'll admit it)

Republic's good, of course it is.

Maybe I should check out this EP, it'd be nice to hear some Joy Division songs with a good singer. Some of them have nice melodies, and Grace Jones already proved they're salvageable with her version of "She's Lost Control".

Is this a Geir sock trolling Tuomas or Tuomas trolling Geir?

???

OMG

Republic is great. Probably the best collection of lyrics from Sumner.

yeah, that's what they all say..

just before they fall?

a part.

Maybe I should check out this EP, it'd be nice to hear some Joy Division songs with a good singer. Some of them have nice melodies, and Grace Jones already proved they're salvageable with her version of "She's Lost Control".

― Tuomas, Friday, November 26, 2010 8:15 AM (4 days ago) Bookmark

killin it

But she called it "I've Lost Control" see what she did there

Hmm...

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/hes-gained-control/Content?oid=5727593

Whoa

http://fuc51.blogspot.com/2010/09/mani-rants-and-we-briefly-oil-creaking.html#more

Mani apologised and deleted the account a few hours later, when he sobered up

Still that rage is extremely palpable

would palp

can only imagine the titanic ego battles involving barney and hooky. its a miracle they stuck around for as long as they did, and got back together even

http://coma-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/The-Light-1102-2011-EP-Cover-Art-Released-Monday-9th-May-Joint-Copyright-James-Chadderton-Peter-Hook-Medium-Smaller.jpg

from TishTash @ Magiska

1102 / 2011 the debut EP from Peter Hook’s The Light which was originally scheduled for release on Monday 9th May 2011 and was held up due to “unspecified legal issues” is now set to be released on Monday 16th of May. The EP features the first recording of a previously unfinished Joy Division track “Pictures In My Mind” with vocals by Peter Hook and three tracks which highlight Rowetta’s unique vocal treatments of “Insight”, “New Dawn Fades” and “Atmosphere”.

Here is the official press release from Peter Hook, Rowetta, The Light & Hacienda Records:

With all matters now fully resolved, Hacienda Records is pleased to finally announce the release of The Light’s “1102 / 2011” EP this coming Monday 16th May at 9am, here at www.fac51thehacienda.com.

Although videos for “Pictures In My Mind”, The Light’s version of the unreleased Joy Division track and the Rowetta sung “Atmosphere” have already been released, both Rowetta’s versions of “New Dawn Fades” and “Insight” have been held back for the EP release and will not have been heard elsewhere prior to Monday 16th May.

Thank you for your support. We hope you will enjoy The Light’s “1102 / 2011” EP.

While the release has been announced, there has been no disclosure as to why the original release date was not met nor what steps were taking to secure the upcoming date. Therefore this publication sees no reason why we should change from our original position that we will not speculate on what occurred between any parties involved.

Peter Hook has come under some intense criticism by those claiming he is “cashing in” on the legacy of Joy Division and Ian Curtis. In a previous feature COMA Music Magazine took the position that while yes, these songs are part of Ian Curtis’s and Joy Division’s legacy, they are also part of Peter Hook’s legacy and he has the right to that work just as much as anyone else.

Ultimately, it really isn’t anyone’s business except those immediately involved who also share that legacy. This writer wonders how this would be different if it was someone not so close to the original source covering these songs. If some unknown act out of the UK or United States chose to promote themselves with the songs on this EP would they be treated differently?

The original press release from Hacienda Records follows:

Peter Hook And The Light features Peter Hook on vocals and bass, Jack Bates on bass, Nat Wason on guitar, Andy Poole on keyboards and Paul Kehoe on drums. Rowetta performs as guest vocalist at selected gigs.

In revisiting “Closer”, whose haunting austere atmosphere and emotive content is considered a “start to finish masterpiece”* (Pitchfork Media), both concerts will see The Light respectfully reproduce the highly esteemed album for the Joy Division fans and faithful. With Martin Hannett’s incandescent production running throughout “Closer” and allied to a band that had developed in stature and confidence since their debut “Unknown Pleasures”, the album came to yield many classic Joy Division tracks including “Atrocity Exhibition, “Heart And Soul” and “Twenty Four Hours”. The Light’s performance of “Closer” on the evening is also being recorded by Ronnie Lane’s mobile recording studio for a vinyl only release later in 2011. Both the May 18th and May 19th Closer gigs continue the same charities involved in last year’s event, Mind and The Keith Bennett Appeal.

Peter Hook’s The Light feat. Rowetta – “1102 / 2011″ 4 Track EP

Released digitally Monday 16th May 2011 on Haçienda Records.

1 “Atmosphere” (vocals by Rowetta)
2. ″Insight”, (vocals by Rowetta)
3. ”New Dawn Fades” (vocals by Rowetta)
4. “Pictures In My Mind” (vocals by Peter Hook)
www.fac51thehacienda.com / www.peterhook.co.uk

there's balls & then there's balls & then there's reaching way up past the prostate to assert you've got an "unfinished joy division track" back there

peter hook tried to sue me recently

I got into a fistfight with Peter Hook once, in front of a club. About five years later, I found myself sitting at a picnic table "backstage" at an outdoor venue. He was eating fried chicken from KFC, and offered me a piece (rather kindly, in fact.) I took up his offer and said, "You'll never remember, but we got in a scuffle years ago." He silently stared at me for about twenty seconds, then named the very venue where the fight had occurred (which was in an entirely different city.) We laughed and shook hands. I was impressed by him after that!

Peter Hook is a person.

To him, Joy Division is a band he was in.

To you, JD is an untouchable godstone. TO him, it's something he possibly feels "ach, that bit's wrong, that bit should have been louder, and this song was done better at Marshmallow studios" etc.

I met him once, seems a nice bloke.

His book is a good read, and if he wants to do new versions of the songs with the Cheeky Girls, it's entirely up to him. If it spoils the originals, well they can't have been that good to be so fragile in the first place, ay?

Blimey, the 'dislike' in the first bunch of posts, hadn't read it before...

Transmission bassline, just a throbbing pulse, and so easy to copy. Revolutionary and still punk.

abs.

man, pictures in my mind is horrendous.

To you, JD is an untouchable godstone. TO him, it's something he possibly feels "ach, that bit's wrong, that bit should have been louder, and this song was done better at Marshmallow studios" etc.

To me, JD is a band I like about 1/2 as much as everybody else I know likes them. Hook isn't doing tweaks to the material to make it sound better, he's just farting around with it for money. I haven't listened to a Joy Division record since the early nineties & am only irritated on principle here, people should write new songs or get the fuck outta the business imo.

People *are* writing new songs, go to them and ignore Peter Hook.

e.g. I see "From the Jam" have made a new single, it is a new song, still ignoring it but you know, good luck to them.

https://i.imgur.com/JLo6Rry.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QEQ6aNF.jpg

lol @ Amos lee >>>>> dylan

Ha!

I get why it's not cool, but what the heck is a rock musician in his 60s going to do? If Hook played his own stuff, he literally would not be able to tour in any big way at this point. Doing the JD stuff, he's gotten to play shows all over the place with his son. I'm sure that's a big thing for them.

Maybe this all seems less fun as Nick Mason going out and doing early Floyd, hard to tell.

The Doors all said they had fun doing their shows. It wasn't like Jimbo was coming back.

From the Jam pretty good actually

xp a later tweet mentions that the new order show was circa 1982

From the Jam pretty good actually

take it to Tribute bands featuring original members

I'm glad I've never seen this thread before (that I remember). The premise is maddening.

To be fair it's not his bass-playing style or the fact he plays in a JD covers band that makes Hooky an arsehole, it's when he does shit like trying to flog "memorabilia" that was never his to sell in the first place(including Ian's letters to Annik that Deborah Curtis wanted to be kept private), tries to belittle Gillian's role in NO(he claims she did nothing in the band, blatantly not true) and accuses his late ex-wife of being a psychotic man-beater, stuff like that.

Rick Finch, now there was a bass player.

He was, but a terrible human being:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/dec/08/former-kc-sunshine-band-star