The Verve and Primal Scream

Anyway you're in new answers now so other people might see the question!

I always thought that Vanishing Point worked as kinda the dark side to Screamadelica relentless good vibes. Unlike Tom however I think lots of it still holds up, but there are a few tracks (like trainspotting) that are essentially filler. I was listening to the Dub version of the album Echo Dek recently, which is also great.

MY set is the intro of 'Symphony' until the point at which Ashcroft starts 'singing'. The early stuff is tragic - nothing more than the sound of a giant flanger.

Vanishing Point is totally unbearable. Drug-addled bozos trying to be 'cinematic'. I'll concede that there may be some interesting ideas going on in the likes of Kowalski and Trainspotting, but it's hardly worth the effort of putting up with Gillespie's trite nonsense ('Every brother is a Sta-ar'- for God's sake no!) to see if they hold up. Medication is unintentionally funny the first time you hear it - the sound of your little brother's 4th form band doing 'rock'- but not at all amusing thereafter.

As for Echo Dek - words fail me. Proof that you really can't make a silk purse...

I like the Primals (new album excepted) so I'm willing to overlook Bobby G's more ridiculous moments. But I disagree that Vanishing Point sounds rooted in its time, if only because it doesn't sound like 1997. Actually, I think that VP is the least-forced sounding Scream Record, overall... plus Burning Wheel and Kowalski are among my favourites.

Anyway I've put it on. The intro to "Burning Wheel" is pretty good - actually they should have just made a big beat record!

I am no great fan of the nu-garage rock bands but in their light "Medication" sounds even lamer. I bet the recent Pistols reunion sounded exactly like this, except this has Adrian Mole on vocals.

No t-b-t of A Northern Soul because I don't own a copy.

Final verdict - I was wrong, doesn't cohere and doesn't make more than the sum of its parts. 3 good tracks, 1 good-but-dont-want-to-hear-it-again track, 1 ok track, 3 boring tracks, 1 boring and overlong track, 2 awful tracks.

Which is of course why A Storm In Heaven shits all over everything they did afterwards. "Substance" was never the band's strong point.

Vanishing Point is by no means a bad album, but the best things about it were the introduction of Mani and the Kevin Shields remix that became the blueprint for XTRMNTR rather than any of its intrinsic qualities. Echo Dek is worth getting despite Dr C's amusing slating, though I have the 7" boxset, the most awkward format yet devised, so the ritual may be part of its appeal.

Has Evil Heat been discussed yet? It might be XTRMNTR-LT but I'm impressed. Then again I even like the Kate Moss collaboration that was omitted from the review copies so my critical faculties may be fatally damaged.

Haven't listened to the Verve in a while, but Northern Soul and Urban Hymns are both excellent. I change my mind about which I prefer, but both have a nice balance between Ashcroft's acoustic songwriting and McCabe's beautiful noise-making. If McAlmont and Butler can work together again, why not these two? Sort it out, guys. Have you listened to "Alone With Everybody"? You NEED each other BADLY.

I don't care about Primal Scream.

BG's status as uber-tosser is really sealed by the fact that despite his efforts to come over as cross between a *real*, *old-fashioned* rock star and a hip enthusiast, he is apparantly a really nasty bastard in real life. And takes himself VERY seriously. The D.Cavanagh Creation book gives an insight.

So no talent AND a twat.

It's not lame, it's hilarious. "Rocks" is possibly the only Scream song that can induce more mirth.

Racing to who can best put the "sham" into "shaman"

jim morrison's tailgate now visible

Is this a TS?

I mean, I am obviously going for Primal Scream although The Verve are better at anthemic ballads. Primal Scream have generally better and more interesting arrangements, and they also manage to combine them with great tunes while those Verve tunes that do have interesting arrangements tend to be repetitive, monotone and tuneless.

Geir, I thought you would prefer the Verve, if only because in their later years they sounded more like Oasis, one of your favorite bands of the decade, than Primal Scream ever did.

A natural logic there, but The Verve were two different bands at the same time. The Oasis-like version is great (and with more sophisticated arrangements than Oasis), but there is also another version of Verve, a version that tends to stay on the same boring chord for minutes and sort of go on in a "cyclic" way. Primal Scream are no way like Britpop, but they have tended to be quite melodic in their dancey moments, at least after "Loaded".

Unusual that Early Verve seem to get a drubbing here. there's a real gossamer beauty to the 92-93 era stuff that remains unparalled today. How many other guitar groups of that period would have had the bollocks to do something unapolagetically ambient like "Endless Life"? (apart from maybe....Seefeel?) Listened back to back with a tune like the Roses "Something's Burning" and you realise that it's easy to forget that there was a transcendence to this music before oafishness and "craft" came along and buggered everything up.

Aargh "gossamer beauty" DOUBLE DETENTION

What's next, "sonic cathedrals"? BAN THIS SICK FILTH!

Aargh "gossamer beauty" DOUBLE DETENTION

The sixteen year-old in me will never die I'm afraid. Although to the best of my knowledge I have never uttered the term "Sonic Cathedral".

At 4:42 on "Gravity Grave," Verve accidentally invent Glasvegas.

a version that tends to stay on the same boring chord for minutes and sort of go on in a "cyclic" way.

Half my record collection, hurrah!

What's wrong with the sound of a giant phaser? That sounds like my idea of heaven.

However, as far as 2008 versions go... I can happily report I've never knowingly heard either. I don't *want* to know. I wish I hadn't followed either of these bands as far as I did.

A drone gets boring after a while.

But surely they made "The Drugs Don't Work" and "Sonnett". For those two fantastic anthemic ballads alone, lotsa props!

Fuck off.

don't be mean