Best Brian Wilson Writing Partner

So tempted to vote Landy.

mike love

I was thinking it would be neat if he teamed with Mccartney now - why not they'r eboth old buggers farting around

I'd like to see Landy & Love team up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_by_The_Beach_Boys

Latter-day douchiness aside, I shy away from trashing Mike Love because his vocals are the key ingredient in a huge number of early BBs tracks. And while ML co-wrote some of the worst duds in the catalog he also has credits on Surfin' Safari, Be True to Your School, Little Saint Nick, Fun Fun Fun, The Warmth of the Sun, I Get Around, Little Honda, Don't Back Down, Wendy, All Summer Long, When I Grow Up (To Be a Man), Please Let Me Wonder, Help Me Rhonda, Let Him Run Wild, California Girls, Good Vibrations, Wild Honey, and Darlin'. That looks like most of a solid greatest hits compilation and it's just BW/ML tracks.

That's the truth. The best collections of songs are with Asher and Parks, but the biggest volume of great songs are with Mike Love.

these guys are all kind of bad in their own way tbh

I mean I love the Van Dyke Parks stuff but I couldn't make it through a single listening of Song Cycle

give it another go! that's a great album.
but yeah, i think the correct answer is mike love.

I'd say Tony Asher was the best lyricist of the bunch.

Surfin' Safari, Be True to Your School, Little Saint Nick, Fun Fun Fun, The Warmth of the Sun, I Get Around, Little Honda, Don't Back Down, Wendy, All Summer Long, When I Grow Up (To Be a Man), Please Let Me Wonder, Help Me Rhonda, Let Him Run Wild, California Girls, Good Vibrations, Wild Honey, and Darlin

the problem is that, with a few exceptions, the lyrics don't really contribute to these songs' greatness

honestly out of that bunch I Get Around is probably the best set of lyrics. Let Him Run Wild, California Girls, Good Vibrations, Warmth of the Sun are the other good ones.

no way, 'california girls's greatness is like 50% lyrics

25% intro

5% Mike Love sailor dance

7% Hal Blaine drum fills

The lyrics definitely contribute to the greatness of "Surfin' Safari" and "Wendy" and "Help Me Rhonda" imo.

for me it's gotta be asher just because it's impossible for me to imagine improving on the words of any of those songs. the sincerity and directness of the pet sounds lyrics -- especially compared to the entertaining glibness of the love-era BBs lyrics -- are a big part of its appeal.

Gary Usher. "Pet Sounds" nuff said.

I was thinking it would be neat if he teamed with Mccartney now

He actually collaborated with McCartney in 2004, although McCartney just showed up providing some vocals to a rather mediocre Wilson composition.

Pet Sounds was Asher.

who's the dude wilson wrote don't worry baby with? is that usher?

lol Geir

the Brian Wilson produced song by Gary Usher about Sacramento is great fwiw

I couldn't easily imagine someone other than Van Dyke Parks writing words that WORK better with stuff like Surf's Up, but that doesn't mean I like the words.

fwiw Usher co-wrote In My Room, 409, and several other early songs between 62 and 64.

Roger Christian's hits were Don't Worry Baby and Little Deuce Coupe. Both him and Usher collaborated on several songs that were either featured in or specifically written for the films Beach Party, Muscle Beach Party, Bikini Beach, Ride the Wild Surf, Beach Blanket Bingo, Ski Party, Beach Ball, and Catalina Caper.

yeahhh catalina caper!
http://www.groovytunesday.com/dbx/catalina_caper_lc6.jpg

lyrics to Surf's Up are all-time great Hurting come on now

it's funny cuz I don't really consider myself a Smile-era-phile or anything but I do kinda think Parks wrote the best front-to-back lyrics out of all these guys. Granted this is because I'm priveleging goofy wordplay and thematic scope and general inventiveness over more straightforward sentiments and trad-pop virtues. But I listen to/read the words to Vegetables and Cabinessence and Heroes and Villains and Wonderful and Surf's Up and I think shit, this guy is really tapping into something deep about middle-class white culture in America, it's kind of all there.

agreed--parks' smile lyrics aren't just a psychedelic bungle of words (at least most of the time). they're actually pretty incisive. and beautiful too!

they're fun to sing! they're like really deep nursery rhymes or something

Best lyrics are VDP, no contest. They're funny, poetic, silly and heartbreaking -- often at the same time. Whether they are written for BW's best songs is a very different question, so I guess your response depends on whether you think the point of this poll is...

Maybe I'm being a little unfair. There are some great lines. I just think they sometimes tend to cram too much into the space they fill.

Agreed that Asher added an emotional connection to Wilson's work that no one else did. I shudder to think how God Only Knows would have turned out in the hands of VDP. Or imagine Wouldn't it be Nice with Parks pontificating about the plight of the American farmer.

i kind of like that idea, but i know what you mean.

otoh what would Mike Love have done with God Only Knows...

He probably would've written lyrics about how great Dallas is.

I may not always love school
but as long as there are cars to drive in

I like this game. Now I want Landy to write I Get Around.

None of the guys go steady cause it wouldn't be right
to leave their best girl home on a saturday night

one of my favorite lines in any song

I may not always love school
but as long as there are cars to drive in
come say a mantra with me
I love the maharishi

god only knows what I'd do without wrinkles

lol was trying to work that in there

can we please rewrite the entire beach boys discography in this manner

I may not always love school
but as long as there are cars to drive in
come say a mantra with me
I love the maharishi
god only knows what I'd do without wrinkles
If Brian ever leaves me
I'll sue that fucker repeatedly

loooooooooooooooooooooool

I was trying to think of how a Van Dyke Parks version of Be True to Your School would go but he's harder to ape, frankly

If Brian ever leaves me
I'll sue that fucker repeatedly

ahah, genius !

we'll surf with girls eternally
weirdos will take pictures with me

"I'm a real cool head
I'm makin' real cool bread"

love those lines

The idea that the early hits weren't notable for their lyrics is a bit of revisionism. The early stuff was all about the lyrics! The music is mostly rehashed Berryisms, Spectorisms, and Four Freshmanology (which I absolutely LOVE, don't get me wrong) but it was the LYRICS that made the band huge.

I don't disagree with this - it was a huge part of their appeal. otoh I didn't live through it, and I don't really enjoy most of those lyrics, apart from a few gems. like, they're goofy and funny in a naive way but I don't actually think they're very GOOD, y'know?

I don't know how you could describe 1967 as anything but a huge disappointment.

In 1963 they had a #3, a #6, and a #7
in 64 they had a #1, #5, #8, and a #9
in 65, a #1, a #2, and a #3
in 66, #1, #3, #8
then suddenly in 67, they can't even break the top 10?

H&V did ok, but it's not exactly the kind of song that ended up on greatest hits comps, in regular rotation on oldies radio, etc.

― lizard tails, a self-regenerating food source for survival (wk), Monday, July 11, 2011 10:47 AM (4 hours ago)

The birth of the LP bro... it was a big thing.

your point?

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

fuck

like, they're goofy and funny in a naive way but I don't actually think they're very GOOD, y'know?

You're talking about stuff like "Vegetables", right?

boooooo

quality of Vegetables lyrics is roughly equivalent to quality of Be True to Your School. major difference is that if my high school burned to the ground I wouldn't have shed a tear, but vegetables are awesome

from a 1996 interview with tony asher:

Was it your choice or a mutual understanding that after "Pet Sounds" your collaboration with Brian would end? Was the idea just to do this one project together?

The subject was never discussed. I would have been delighted to be asked to work with Brian again. But I assumed, given the disappointing sales of the album and the groups unhappiness with the material, that my services were "no longer needed." That assumption seemed to be confirmed when "Good Vibrations" came out without any of my lyrics.

quality of Vegetables lyrics is roughly equivalent to quality of Be True to Your School. major difference is that if my high school burned to the ground I wouldn't have shed a tear, but vegetables are awesome

You sir, are a traitor to your school. Your letterman sweater is REVOKED.

do the current mike love incarnation of the BBs play songs like 'heroes and villains'?

Maybe it's because I listened to Endless Summer a ton when I was about 7 or 8, but I still feel an emotional connection with songs like The Warmth of the Sun, In My Room, Let Him Run Wild, Don't Worry Baby, or Girl Don't Tell Me. But the Van Dyke Parks lyrics just strike me as clever wordplay and interesting imagery.

do the current mike love incarnation of the BBs play songs like 'heroes and villains'?

no but they do do Darlin', which I thought was interesting.

The Warmth of the Sun, In My Room, Let Him Run Wild, Don't Worry Baby, or Girl Don't Tell Me

Yeah these are all top tier early material imho

I'm not saying H&V 'tanked', I'm saying it would have been a bigger hit, that's all.

I feel like if you asked me to make a list of 50 brilliant lyricists, Parks would be the only one of these in there. Within the context of the Beach Boys though, I think the Tony Asher collaboration led to the greatest material. But then I listed out all of my favorite Beach Boys songs, tallied up who did what, and Love beat Asher by 1 song. And since one of those was Good Vibrations I ultimately had to vote Love.

A reputable methodology.

...but it must be noted that Mike Love's contribution to many of the songs he's credited with co-writing is minimal, and many were added only after he sued Brian in the '90s. And even some of those small contributions remain disputed. "Wouldn't It Be Nice" now has a Mike Love songwriting credit, but he says the only part he wrote is the "good night, sleep tight" coda lyric, and Tony Asher says he didn't even write that (under oath in court).

Ringo wrote "writing the words of a sermon that no one will hear" and "darning his socks" but didn't get a songwriting credit for "Eleanor Rigby". It varies by songwriter and band, but people who contribute one brief lyrical snippet often don't get songwriting credits.

Ringo wrote "writing the words of a sermon that no one will hear"

One of the best lines in the damn song!

He also wrote "I told you about the swans that they live in the park" for Cream's "Badge" (G.Harrison)

Which is, um..

Bear in mind, though, that a whole bunch of lines got suggested by Mal Evans, et al, for a whole bunch of LenMac songs, and I believe they did get a small perc for them even though they got no actual cred.

many were added only after he sued Brian in the '90s

Uh, because Brian hadn't credited him at all on lots of stuff he should have been credited on perhaps? Who says his contributions were minimal? And Ringo should have been credited if you ask me!

Anyway, writing lyrics is money for old rope, imo

> Who says his contributions were minimal?

Just about everyone present when Brian (and other collaborators when used) was writing them, and in some cases Mike himself.

Although Mike did have a substantive role in writing alot of the good earlier stuff, i.e. "Fun, Fun, Fun" is Mike's lyric all the way.

in some cases Mike himself.

LOL crazy Beach Boys would sue their own shadows

Bear in mind, though, that a whole bunch of lines got suggested by Mal Evans, et al, for a whole bunch of LenMac songs,

^^^Fixing a Hole in particular iirc

Uh, because Brian hadn't credited him at all on lots of stuff he should have been credited on perhaps?

That was Murray's doing, not Brian's.

...but it must be noted that Mike Love's contribution to many of the songs he's credited with co-writing is minimal,

Well, maybe that's all that was needed. I like some of the stuff Brian wrote on his own the best like Girl Don't Tell Me.

Feel like that may be one that Mike was credited with after the fact...

lol

Bruce Johnston contacted Jeremy Pierce (head of V2) after Bruce heard Hawaii, O’Hagan recalls. "Then he got it to Brian and the other Boys. Apparently, Brian was really impressed. He understood what I was doing. It all seemed fairly genuine, and a meeting was fixed up with Brian and Melinda. So we went to Brian's house, a huge kind of Spanish-type ranchero with big open-plan spaces, like a giant Barrett home. Anyway, we walked in, and Brian was standing there, holding a blanket for some reason. He looked fine - I never liked the Landy-thin Brian. The guy's 55, he's a big bloke, he ought to be fat. Fat Brian suits me."

"His face contorted, he looked confused. Plus, because he's deaf in one ear, he speaks out of the corner of his mouth. Trouble was, he couldn't work out how come we'd come all the way from Britain. Or how the last 30 years happened. But the interesting thing about the Pet Sounds box set (the inter-song dialogue) was just how in control Brian can be in the studio, how confident he is within those parameters. But you can tell that was also the start of the absurdity and the nervous laughter. And the drugs..."

"Melinda managed to conduct affairs fairly well and the idea of the record was tabled. And Brian's like 'Wow! A record? You want me to make a record? Whoa!' We said, 'We want you to make a Beach Boys record.' And he's, like, 'Whoa! A Beach Boys record? Will they let me?' It was as though the possibility of making a Beach Boys record hadn't occurred to him until we mentioned it."

"Brian goes, 'Can I have Hal and Carol on the record?' And then he went, 'Whoa! I'll give you a Number One.' And I said, 'You don't have to make a Number One record - just make a record you really want to make.' Brian looked confused by this. 'You don't want a Number One?'"

Melinda said, 'Brian, we want you to make a record, and Sean will oversee it.' And Brian says, "who's Sean?' Melinda said, 'He's the guy who made that record you like, Hawaii.' And he says, 'The Hawaii guy? Are you the Hawaii guy? You made that record? Too much! Far out! Music, man. So much music!"

O'Hagan's next meeting with Wilson was at a dinner in Chicago, where Brian recently built a second home - and a studio - next door to Joe Thomas, the producer of Imagination, the record that will achieve what Sweet Insanity and the Paley-Wilson sessions failed to do - get in the shops.

It was during this period that Brian was being coerced away from Andy Paley (by wife Melinda, according to observers), toward Joe Thomas, a former WBA wrestler, co-founder of the Adult Contemporary stronghold, River North Records, and producer of, as O'Hagan puts it, "real right-wing country artists." Wilson's lack of interest in the O'Hagan project manifested itself at dinner that night.

"I could already tell it was never going to happen," says O'Hagan. "The whole thing was absurd. As far as I can see, Joe Thomas hasn't got a clue about Brian Wilson or his legacy. It's all just 'Little Deuce Coupe' to him. He wanted Brian to make a big Eighties ballad record, all cavernous snares. He kept referring to Brian's potential as an Adult Contemporary crossover artist. I sad, 'Don't you realize Brian Wilson is essentially a 20th-century avant-garde pop genius?' And he went, 'Avant-garde? Not the Brian Wilson I know'

"I don't think Brian really wanted to work with him - but he had no choice, he was being pulled in that direction. He just wants to feel safe and comfortable, and Joe Thomas is a father figure. Plus, Melinda likes him, and he's dependent on Melinda.

"The album with me wasn't particularly high on Brian's agenda that night - ice-cream was. All he wanted to do was eat ice cream. He was just sitting there in his baseball cap while all these discussions were going on, going, 'Munch, munch, munch.' He loves eating. He'd agree to anything as long as he can eat. Someone would ask him, 'Would you agree to Sean overseeing the record?' And he'd go, 'Sure, sure!' The Melinda would say, 'No, no.' And he'd say, 'No, no.'"

hee hee, had heard about that, but never in so much detail.
would've been interesting if they had actually made a record together.

i've read that before somewhere ... o'hagan also saying how mike love was repeatedly calling him a limey faggot or words to that effect.

Mike Love otm

I like some of his stuff with the 'Lab, but really hate the High Llamas

Can you be a limey faggot if you're Irish?

i don't care for em myself... he pointed out how odd to hear that from love considering how "faggy" his stage moves used to be.

Admittedly he doesn't have an Irish accent, so he sounds like a limey faggot, so honest mistake on Mike's part

Full disclosure... I'm named after a 25-second track on Hawaii. That said, I scoured for that today after reading about Brian Wilson's Disney album.

ohagan ruuuuules!!

lol

I've met him before, had a few drinks with him, a fine fellow

love o'hagan, I think he would have probably been the single best person on the planet to work w/ brian at that point. such a missed opportunity.

^^^ otm

that story is kinda lol mostly sad

as are most Brian Wilson stories after 1967 or so...

^^^

cool that he ended up with the wondermint people in the end though -- probably even huger beach boys fans than the llamas, really. the Joe Thomas interlude was weird -- did Wilson end up suing him or something? or vice versa?

This whole affair is a sad spot in my soul.

wondermint bros are sorta like a cover band whereas ohagan actually made a career actively building on things brian sketched out. he'd be a good partner because he'd be the ideal person to bounce ideas off of but would still probably be willing to be fairly critical.

ie 'huger beach boys fans' is prob their drawback

He's also got a million other influences writers like to ignore.