brilliant artists = selfish pricks

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it wd help a lot with my current research if we could all brainstorm the most precise examples of universally canonized, widely lauded artists who are also frequently recognized as total selfish twunts. monsters, even.

mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 17:29 (twenty-three years ago)

i'll start:

oh, wait. my brain = spam. and that's why i'm asking you lot, sillies..

mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 17:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Lou reed. especially in the velvets.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 17:31 (twenty-three years ago)

how picky are you about widely lauded? damon albarn.

lyra (lyra), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 17:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Beefheart.

Van Morrison.

James Brown.

Kevin Rowland?

Venga, Wednesday, 4 September 2002 17:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Van Morrison is a prize curmudgeon by all accounts, which gives me an opportunity to pinch this from the rocking vicar

Van's Daily Dump
Van Morrison insists on his band turning up to rehearsals at bang on 8.30am, although Van himself often doesn't turn up until ten, and then goes straight to the toilet with a copy of Exchange & Mart to have a dump. One day, the band got so cross that they waited until Van was engaged and then, one by one, tip-toed over to Van's Sacred Harmonica Bag, full of harmonicas Van has collected from around the world, picked a specimen, and rubbed it in their anal clefts. Even now, when you see Van on Later, his band seemed particularly delighted when he does a harmonica solo.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 17:37 (twenty-three years ago)

A link to the 'Buddy Rich tape' wouldn't go amiss here!

dave q, Wednesday, 4 September 2002 17:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Most of 'em. It's just a fact that a lot of great musicians have atrocious social skills and are very insecure people who don't have healthy relationships with the outside world -- obviously this isn't the case with everyone, but I wonder how many musicians would be as compelling as they are if they didn't have that "selfish prick" side to them.

I'm not forgiving them -- rock stars are really difficult and awful sometimes, even the ones who aren't famous yet -- but I can empathize a little. A little.

Jody Beth Rosen, Wednesday, 4 September 2002 17:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Bluegrass guy - Bill Monroe? - had a bandmember suffer a serious accident on tour that paralysed his arm, after which Monroe said "Can't play a fiddle like that" and left him by the roadside

dave q, Wednesday, 4 September 2002 17:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Bryan Ferry
Zappa
Eno

"universally canonized, widely lauded artist" .. arguable...:
Bono

dave225 (Dave225), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 17:43 (twenty-three years ago)

Prince springs to mind. Roger Waters. Phil Specter.

Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 4 September 2002 17:46 (twenty-three years ago)

Not sure he's universally regarded as genius, but Ian McCulloch is purportedly very difficult to deal with.

I think he's complete runny, tepid shit in leaky paper bag, but I surmise the still-inexplicably-beloved Michael Jackson probably isn't a summer breeze to work with.

Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 4 September 2002 17:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Conversation between my ex-boyfriend (a former friend/colleague of filmmaker Wes Anderson) and me, around the release of The Royal Tenenbaums:

Me: "I really loved the new Wes Anderson movie; have you seen it?"
JQH: "Wes Anderson is a fucking prick."
Me: "Of course he is."


Jody Beth Rosen, Wednesday, 4 September 2002 17:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Billy, you're the man. The Rocking Vicar may be the country cottage of embittered Q journalists, but it's funnier than Popbitch. And that is fucking funny.

Mike (mratford), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 17:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Thom Yorke. Kurt Cobain. John Lennon.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 17:58 (twenty-three years ago)

miles fucking davis.

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 18:01 (twenty-three years ago)

No. Thom may be mercurial and sarcastic... But I wouldn't say a prick. He was arguably even a bit jerk to me, but considering things I've actually witnessed him do for other people... I wouldn't say he's a prick at all.

Melissa W (Melissa W), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 18:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Alex Chilton was a pretty evil man when he was making his best music.

wl, Wednesday, 4 September 2002 18:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Todd Rundgren and Martin Hannett comes to mind here.

Chris Barrus (xibalba), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 18:22 (twenty-three years ago)

John Lydon. Steve Albini.

Motel Hell, Wednesday, 4 September 2002 18:23 (twenty-three years ago)

chuck berry = fuckin asshole

ddd, Wednesday, 4 September 2002 18:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Yngwie Malmsteen, no contest.

Siegbran Hetteson (eofor), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 18:54 (twenty-three years ago)

Yngwie Malmsteen, no contest.

Isn't his brilliance generally accepted to have an asterisk permanently affixed to it? I certainly wouldn't put him in the company of pretty much anyone else mentioned thus far. Even if he were a dandy chap, he'd still be a punchline.

wl, Wednesday, 4 September 2002 18:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Just last night I saw a documentary about "rock operas" and they had a short spot where Sting explained why he got his part in Quadrophenia:
"I got the part because the character is smart and debonair...just like me."

Lord Custos Alpha (Lord Custos Alpha), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 19:07 (twenty-three years ago)

let me refine the question a bit by stating that i'm not interested in people who are widely canonized etc and also JUST HAPPEN to be twunts. i'm looking for, very specifically, artists who place their own artistic vision above all else and rather churlishly expect those around them to bend accordingly AT ALL COSTS

i think we're heading down the right path with lou reed, miles fucking davis and (possibly?) eno

mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 19:50 (twenty-three years ago)

"but considering things I've actually witnessed him do for other people... I wouldn't say he's a prick at all."

Like what? Not nit-picking, just curious. I was basing my opinion on interviews I'd read where he was extremely rude, even when the interviewer was trying his best to be polite. The Uncut interview, for example. Stephen Dalton asks him if his baby was planned, and Thom answers "No". Then he blows up because the question was intrusive. Then why did you answer, Thom? Just say "pass" if it's too personal. Wanker.

I adore Radiohead's music, btw, so I'm not biased.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 20:06 (twenty-three years ago)

>Then he blows up because the question was intrusive.

His reaction sounds pretty restrained to me. He should've twatted the hack.

Venga, Wednesday, 4 September 2002 20:46 (twenty-three years ago)

I agree. But why did he answer the question? If he'd blown up without answering it, that I could understand, but you can't have it both ways.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 21:11 (twenty-three years ago)

J. Mascis is a complete control freak, according to Lou Barlow at least. Considering he played every instrument on every song on most of the rest of the Dinosaur Jr. records I'd tend to believe him.

Dave Beckhouse, Wednesday, 4 September 2002 21:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Sounds like the question caught him by surprise.

Melissa W (Melissa W), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 21:20 (twenty-three years ago)

What are some instances of Eno's prickishness? It's difficult to believe so many producers could be intolerable assholes, considering dealing with people is so essential to the job.

A.V. Alexandre (Keiko), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 23:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Maybe we ought to distinguish between being a selfish prick and just being shy or antisocial. If you've never met these people yourselves, it seems presumptuous to assume they're assholes. Everyone has their bad days, me included. I'm sure Kurt Cobain could be a jerk sometimes, but he always seemed like a decent guy to me.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 4 September 2002 23:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Lee Mavers

Poppy (poppy), Thursday, 5 September 2002 02:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Neil Young; dave q's Bill Monroe story is priceless.

James Blount, Thursday, 5 September 2002 04:59 (twenty-three years ago)

I can't believe no-ones mentioned the King of attitude.

Mark E Smith

(and this is coming from a Fall fan!)

Baxter Wingnut, Thursday, 5 September 2002 06:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Wouldn't it be shorter to list brilliant artists who aren't selfish pricks?

stevo (stevo), Thursday, 5 September 2002 06:16 (twenty-three years ago)

I remember hearing/reading that James Brown had a sort of 'zero-tolerance' policy for his backing band, particularly the drummer. Should the man miss ONE BEAT, Brown would fire him on the spot and bring in some fresh blood the next song. Exerting that much control is freakish and fits in right next to Miles Davis. Here is a quote from (member of arguably selfish prick band himself) Keith Richards:

"I had long enough to realize that just because I dig someone's work doesn't mean I have to like them as a person... James Brown can be an asshole. If you want to know, he IS an asshole. But you expect it from him. He pumps himself up to be the baddest and meanest."

I would say Courtney Love, but I think she is ONLY a shrill opportunistic Ann Coulter of grunge, and not at all a 'brilliant artist.'

Jerry Lee Lewis is probably the baddest motherfucker in music history, although I don't think he was very controlling (since he was rarely in control of himself). I mean he offed two wives (probably), married his pre-pubescent cousin (well 2nd cousin), and sat in front of Graceland raging drunk with a shotgun hoping to 'settle a score' with Elvis. I don't know about selfish, but the Killer is arguably the definitive source of angry fucked up egotistical attitude in rock music.

Ryan McKay, Thursday, 5 September 2002 08:56 (twenty-three years ago)

killing yr wife is fairly controlling

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 5 September 2002 08:59 (twenty-three years ago)

"killing yr wife is fairly controlling"

Yes, although I can't prove this was because of her criticizing his music...I think that would clench it.

Almost forgot the obvious:
"Truth or Dare" era Madonna

Ryan McKay, Thursday, 5 September 2002 09:42 (twenty-three years ago)

steve albini by a long shot. vile misanthropy dressed as up 'refreshing honesty' by too many apologists in the alt-rock scene. let's call it what it is, folks. such a pity, given the general quality of music he's been responsible for.

angelo (angelo), Thursday, 5 September 2002 10:50 (twenty-three years ago)

steve albini by a long shot. vile misanthropy

What's weird is that he can tone it down sometimes. I'm thinking at least of the interview in the Punk Planet book.

There's quite a dichotomy between his words and his actions, though. For all his ripping on any and every band who isn't the Jesus Lizard, as a working engineer who offers cheap rates to struggling unknown bands as long as they don't put his name on the project, he has to be ushering a lot of shitty music into the world. And to keep this "recording as community resource" work afloat, for big buxx he'll produce something like a Bush record, and then have to say nice things about them.

Also, has he toned down his act lately, or am I just missing the more recent bilous interviews and zine columns?

wl, Thursday, 5 September 2002 12:30 (twenty-three years ago)

"I surmise the still-inexplicably-beloved Michael Jackson probably isn't a summer breeze to work with."

I'm thinking you're probably right there. Freakin' perfectionist.

Prue, Thursday, 5 September 2002 12:33 (twenty-three years ago)


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