Who'll List The Listers?

An initial five: Steady Mike; Stephin Merritt; Michel Platini; Fredric Jameson; Bob Dylan.

Thomas Pynchon. Christopher Walken. Josh Behman (creator-director of Buffy, and I think I've gotten his name completely wrong). Ornette Coleman. Cecil Taylor. Jacques Derrida.

Terry Eagleton, obviously (who usetabe a Ewen MacColl type folkie, I once heard, in his own Stalino-sandalled group — I so hope this is true).

Sorry: this is all boys: Bernadine Dohrn, Astrid Proll, Leila Khaled.

Fantasy best-of lists, what a question:

Well, to kick off with ILM and environs: you for a start, Pinefox. Mark S, Geordie Racer and Guy B's would be interesting. Tim Hopkins, certainly. Pretty much everyone's except for the people whose favourite records I know.

(Sorry to bring up the i-word but I can think of a couple of people online whose top 100 non-indie records I'd be very interested in seeing.)

Off-ILM popwriters: Paul Morley, though I'm not sure I'd like it.

Musicians: Bill Drummond. Timbaland. Max Martin.

Other People: I can't really think of anyone famous whose relationship with pop I'm very interested in. I might come back to this. I have a mild curiosity about anyone famous' cultural life.

If there is one person who I'd want to write a book on their top 100 or 1000 or whatever records, it's Mike Daddino.

And finally, I would love to be hypnotised and find out the truth about *my* favourite 100 records.

Just realised of course that the people I'm most interested in seeing a top records list by (on here anyway) are those least likely to provide such a thing. Which is as it should be.

Josh Behman (creator-director of Buffy, and I think I've gotten his name completely wrong).

It's Joss Whedon. I think it's spelled right, but Tim Finney would probably know for sure.

who is 'steady mike'?

i already know a lot of the folks on ilm's favorite records, but for those i don't, um, sterling and jimmy, guy, and mark s., for starters.

off-ilm: i live in the united states where rock writing really hasn't mattered for some time, and especially not to the degree it figures into the lives of your average britons. so, then, chuck eddy. maybe greg tate.

famous folks: thomas pynchon, timbaland, d.f. wallace, phil spector (besides his own, of course), david bowie.

who is 'steady mike'?

i live in the united states where rock writing really hasn't mattered for some time, and especially not to the degree it figures into the lives of your average britons.

I feel you may have been misled, Fred. Rock writing doesn't figure in the lives of your average Briton at all. I haven't even heard of most of the people they're all banging on about.

My lists:

Barry Davies, Tony Blair, Nina Simone, Pat Sharpe and Alasdair Gray's. Oh, and Morrissey's these days.

I don't want to see anybody's because I think it's all full of shit, to be blunt about it. People just carrying on, yammering into space, and half of 'em are more reflective of what someone thinks they're supposed to like once you get out of, say, the top twenty. I've never compiled a list without changing my mind a bit later because I forgot something anyhow, so they're not even very accurate. Screw it.

I despise list making myself to be honest; it was a bloody chore to do it for that ILM poll. So I feel I have to put in a vote of non- confidence, and I think that's an opinion not represented enough. I just am not very interested in what other people put on lists - I'd rather see each person here list their VERY FAVORITE RECORD, no other records, with a long essay about why it's their favorite, then read any list any day.

Burn lists. Up with essays.

But if I had to pick, I'd want to know my mom's top 100 list. Because I'm sure it'd be mind blowing.

Ditto exactly what Ally just said.

(Except the bit about the essay on your favorite album ever. I don't want to read that either.)

Hey, hey, these are by no means people who are most accomplished in their fields.

Musicians : Aphex Twin (I got a good idea, mainly cause I wanna be proved right), Eno (a culture monster), Thomas Bangalter (I just wish I knew what records he plays in those sets)

Rupert Murdoch - so we can sneer

Wong Kar-Wai -he used the Flying Pickets 'Only You' at the end of Fallen Angels when they fly through the underpasses of Hong Kong

David Lynch - he makes sound and image work in conjuction with one another, it's a different language.

Daniel Liebskind - not just into architecture and likes to mess with people's perspectives

H.A.L. - I like to think of him still out there downloading alien transmissions

Yep, lists are the worst thing about being into something - but this thread is asking for something outside of music, it's asking which artists have an interesting take on music, or interests beyond their field. I'm interested in work that tries to cross those boundaries - eg Marvin Gaye's Troubleman - an interesting diversion.

I agree that lists are, in themselves, somewhat blank and uninformative; and yes, it might be more interesting to see Eagleton or Blair or Hopkins write an essay on their favourite record than a list of their favourite records. If people want to write such essays, fabulous - it sounds like a wonderful thing. But I still think that, in principle, the list of an individual you find interesting is probably more interesting than a collective, averaged-out list.

Have to agree with Dastoor: Morrissey's current list would have a fascination.

The problem with averaged out group lists is that they all start looking the same. The same answers and the same ideas - it's not necessarily because the people writing in have awful tastes (though it could), it's just that there are certain albums that a lot of people are going to throw in, perhaps towards the end with minimal points but regardless, if you get enough people doing that, the album ends up in the top ten.

Only way I can figure I'd want to see someone's top 40 records is if I was trying to get in some girl's pants, and I thought seeing what she liked might give me an inside track. But after seeing it, I probably wouldn't wanna get in her pants anymore, cuz most people have embarrassing music taste after you go past their, say, five favorite records.

Yes, that may well be a problem with averaged-out lists. My bigger problem with averaged-out lists, as I have said before, is that as far as I can see they dilute the real individual passions that are - I suppose - still 'visible' in an individual's list. An averaged list is a list to which no-one has actually subscribed: it is, in a sense, no-one's list.

Nick: Barry Davies is a great one, just the sort of name I had in mind. But a surprise, coming from you. Really didn't know you were a fan.

Chiming in giving my own extended hoohah on FT -- I'm with Ally, actually, it's much more interesting to read reflections than simply lists, which in and of themselves rarely say anything and far too often could easily just confirm stereotypes. Writing my 136 pieces was time consuming, of course, but I felt the end results were worth it in that I didn't just say some names and leave it there. Of course there's the irony in that I couldn't find myself saying much about _Loveless_ at the very end of it, because for me that's trying to capture lightning in a way that shows all the beauty and strength of it -- impossible to do with words.

Don't worry, Ned: I've been trying to write about The Holy Bible for 5 fucking years now, and I still can't manage more than, "uhh, I love it".

And I also now know that if Otis ever asks me for my 40 favorite albums, that I should give him a good slap. This thread is fantastic.

I suppose the theory with mega-lists instead of individual is that it shows the "common consensus", but then again if that was true why do so many people go bitchcakes over them? I mean, we sit here and tear apart how awful they are all the time, so I don't know. It's what I said, they all look the same and therefore they are no individuals common consensus. The only thing that is consensus about it is that a lot of people ranked the same album, whether it was their last choice or their first. It's like this ILM list - WHY should an album receive multiple votes to make it in the list? If someone loves it enough to waste a whole 20 on it, and 20 is somehow enough to make it into the list (which would shock me but anyhow), I don't see why it should be discriminated against.

I just don't like consensus lists, and I believe a lot of people see the same thing; otherwise why would publications publish the "individual lists" as sidebars to the "main list" all the time?

Well, I like lists...I agree that individual lists are better, there should be the consensus list and all the individual ones published as well...I mean you wouldn't submit a research paper with only the results, you'd get bad marks! Raw data is important...oh and I don't think I would able to write about why I like certain albums, singles etc...

Mm...I have to sympathize with Ally's takes on the whole list thing, partially because, well, who needs common consensus anyway? I supposed it would be a nice thing to get a general snapshot of tastes on here, but I'd actually love it if it could be shown that there *is* no common consensus at all. Who needs new canons? Let chaos reign.

I don't see why you can't have both. It's not like anybody's holding a gun to anyone's head forcing them to look at the consensus list and listen to all the records on it.

No one's saying you can't have both, we're saying what we like and don't like. But for that, I'm going to find you, put a gun to your head, and force you to listen to even the most awful choices ;)

For the record, I came out against the idea of the ILM 100 thing almost immediately because I just thought it was a stupid idea. I know it makes me sound very negative but like I said consensus lists bore me, plus some personal reasons having to do with knowing the person running it. I'd much rather us do a webpage on everyone picking one song or album and writing about it, if we're going to be doing some webpage on people's tastes here, because it's much more representative.

But hey, no one asked or cared about my opinion so it's really just needless bantering at the mo.

I really think people should talk about only one thing and go in depth on it because you learn more about a person and their ideas and tastes that way. I'd start a thread on it, and maybe I will later, but really honestly I don't want to waste my one thread per day, just in case I think of a really good question ;P

I'll listen to anything. How bad can it get ? Unless Sterling's recent chart-pop infatuation leads him to list Celine Dion, in which case you can pull the trigger.

Now, wait, you're the one who got all uppity and went on baout how no one was holding guns to our heads, mister, now you're sunshine and listening to everything? Nuh-uh, we don't work that way in these parts. I am going to recast my ballot for 40 Celine songs now ;)

Martin Jansche, Dean Young, Eric Rohmer, Peter Miller, Mark Robinson, Sam Prekop, Archer Prewitt

Uh, *recent* chart-pop infatuation? Personally, I'd like to see Madonna's current list -- is it french house, britney, dwight yokham, or what?

Ally - Hmmm, let's see, what are my 40 favorite Beach Boys records ?

I'm not the one who claimed I'd listen to anything on the list, now am I?

I better take that back. I'm getting visions of people knocking on my door carrying a gun and Richard Marx, Outfield and Giuffria records.

Don't think I won't do it. The mob comes by my apartment once a month, just to "make sure it's doin'", whatever that means. I'm sure I can convince them to go on Richard Marx warfare.

If you haven't already, check out http://www.furious.com/perfect/staff2.html for some pretty interesting lists. The Aphex Twin's a big Ween fan apparently.

Just to repeat: I agree with Ally that 'consensus' lists are unhelpful, for reasons given above. I sure would rather see an enthusiastic piece of prose from everyone (or from all the names named on this thread) than a mere list.

Didn't know all the names in Youn's list. Great call on Miller, though - this we need to know.

David Lacey. Lloyd Cole. Robert Delamere.

Dean Young (a poet) and Eric Rohmer (a director) are out of personal interest. Martin Jansche (a student here) is for classical music. I once asked him his opinion of Verklarte Nacht; he called it "indulgent" and "bombastic". So I'm interested in what he thinks isn't. Mark Robinson (of Flin Flon, formerly Unrest) is for indie pop. I'd also want to see Keith's and Marianna Maclean's lists for this genre. Archer Prewitt and Sam Prekop (of the Sea and Cake) are for jazz. I need a fan's perspective - something watered-down, hopefully. I'd also be interested in Norman Fay's list on account of the answer he posted to Robin Carmody's question about music that could have only been made in a certain time and place. And Robin Carmody's list cos I still need to find out which Dylan song Sandy Denny covered. But I don't know if he rates it.

Ah, the one that outraged my military great-uncle :) ? He's resting.

FWIW, it was "Si Tu Dois Partir" ("If You Gotta Go, Go Now"), though I don't think Dylan had actually recorded it, which might explain you not knowing it, but it was a hit single in this country for Denny with Fairport Convention (the only UK hit ever for either). See here: http://www.musikfolk.com/expletive-delighted/album- unhalfbricking.htm

To actually answer the question:

Yes, Norman's list would be interesting reading, though of other ILM contributors the one I'd most like to see would be that of David Inglesfield, who I've known the closest for the longest but still don't know what he'd put in such a list. Perhaps he just wouldn't feel like doing such a thing. We'll see.

Of people in music, currently: Mark E. Smith, Luke Haines, Delia Derbyshire, Stuart Murdoch, Timbaland, Skitz. Of writers (not necessarily on music): Jonathan Glancey, Jonathan Freedland, Jonathan Selzer, Paul Oldfield, Gary Younge. Polly Toynbee, so I can ridicule her further for allegedly hating the nostalgic mythmaking of the UK media while loving Capital Fucking Gold. Tom Cox, for an easy laugh. Barry Davies? Surely the only interesting thing (very 80s joke coming) is that he'd be too old to really understand Luther Vandross (recovers from outmoded sense of injokery).

Dylan's version of the song (bootleg sessions) is great. I didn't know he'd done it in French. Lloyd Cole did it in French. Good, but not his finest moment - not even up there with Bob's own take, to be honest.

He didn't do it in French. It was Sandy Denny / Fairport Convention who (originally) did.

Thanks for the tip, Robin. Dylan is actually one of the many embarrassing gaps in my knowledge of music. I suppose I should start out with Blonde on Blonde, but classic albums are oddly the hardest ones to buy cos you always think there will be time later. Whereas other albums might not ever be reissued. And I'm always years behind anyway. You might wonder why I was looking for the cover version then. Well, the Byrds covered a lot of his songs, and they were great. Plus I love the songs Kate & Anna McGarrigle sing in French, and Sandy Denny has the same type of voice.

Pinefox, I'll look for the Lloyd Cole cover, too. Have you heard his cover of 'Famous Blue Raincoat'?

Mike Judge, Giorgio Moroder, Jay-Z, Alan Vega, Prince.

id like lists by : bea campbell, my dad, hugh masekela, ringo lam, that posh wifey in tesco's who looks like gail porter

im currently watching 'attention scum' on video - its really boring - going to switch off and drool over Danielle on CITV before picking up the firstborn from school and making the tea

I've seen Lloyd play it live a couple of times. It was pretty OK, I guess, if only cos it was Lloyd.

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