Compile the Jazz canon 1980 to present day

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Boring rockist question alert! I know hardly anything about jazz, I'm just interested in reading the answers to this one.

Hundreds of new jazz LPs come out every year. But I can't think of a single one released in the last 20 years or so that has crossed over into 'best album ever' Colin Larkin-type lists. There may be some interesting follow-up questions around this subject. But for the moment all I really want to know is - what records released since 1980 do jazz aficionados generally consider worthy of the canon? I'm looking for the 'consensus' here, rather than personal touchstones. (See, I told you it was a boring question)

― Jeff W (Jeff W), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 11:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Ornette Coleman 'Virgin Beauty' thru 'In All Languages' or 'Tone Dialling'?

― dave q, Tuesday, 10 September 2002 11:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Coleman/Metheny - Song X
Pat Metheny - 80/81
John Zorn - Masada 1 (or the Big Gundown, but is that jazz?)
James Blood Ulmer - Odyssey
Joe Lovano - Celebrating Sinatra (don't laugh!)
Don Byron - Tuskegee Experiments
Branford Marsaliks - Trio Jeepy
something by Joshua Redman
Bill Frisell - Have a Little Faith

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 12:24 (twenty-three years ago)

And a whole bunch more straight-ahead stuff that I don't listen to.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 12:24 (twenty-three years ago)

uh, Marsalis

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 12:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Shouldn't there be Miles Davis Tutu somewhere?
And something by Oregon. I found world jazz was the most exciting thing in jazz in the 80s.
Probably some Jarrett trio (with Peacock, bass and DeJohnette, drums) standards stuff, though this never excited me a lot.

I really hope you mean Branford, not Wynton dleone!

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 12:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Branford Marsalis, Trio Jeepy -- just had to correct the spelling

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 12:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Though, I do think something by Wynton would be in the "canon", and would also argue that none of Miles' records from the 80s would have to be there.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 12:56 (twenty-three years ago)

let us not forget Cecil Taylor Unit's marathon jazz of 'It is in the brewing luminous' (hatology).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 13:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Sonny Sharrock - Ask the Ages

― James Blount, Tuesday, 10 September 2002 14:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Garbarek/Hillard's Officium?

Nils Peter Molvaer's Khmer?

― tigerclawskank, Tuesday, 10 September 2002 14:24 (twenty-three years ago)

I was all up in the grill of Trio Jeepy and Tone Dialing too, but got bored with the former and never really warmed to the latter. Both are worthy of study, though.

My favorite "jazz" record lately dates from the late '90s: Henry Threadgill & Make a Move, Where's Your Cup?. One of the most exciting and underappreciated musical pieces of the last 20 years. Great five-piece band (guitar, bass, drums, sax/flute, accordion), long stretches of funky improv, weird shit for real.

― Matt C., Tuesday, 10 September 2002 14:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Hmm, maybe I misread the question. I'm not necessarily listing my fave albums, but the ones I figure are "rockist" enough to be in a recent canon. I.e., the ones some hip band director might recommend to his students.

I'm also not saying they suck, just that they're "canon" records.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 14:48 (twenty-three years ago)

You haven't misread the question, dominique. I want records of this genre and period that the majority - be it 'hip' band directors or '[insert adjective]' ILMers - are likely to say are "great". You don't personally have to agree, of course.

― Jeff W, Tuesday, 10 September 2002 15:05 (twenty-three years ago)

(the missing adjective is a warm and cuddly one of your choice obv.)

― Jeff W, Tuesday, 10 September 2002 15:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Dominique: You were right. I was wrong. *buries face in hands, weeps uncontrollably for hours*

― Matt C., Tuesday, 10 September 2002 15:13 (twenty-three years ago)

The last jazz album I bought was actually Charles Lloyd's The Water Is Wide from 2000. Not sure if it belongs into the canon but definitely a very nice calm spiritual jazz record.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 15:13 (twenty-three years ago)

Village Voice jazz critic Gary Giddins did a recent article called "Post-War Jazz: An Arbitrary Roadmap" which lists one jazz song (he also lists the album) picked from each year from 1945 to 2001. That would probably give you pretty close to a mainstream jazz view of notable post-1980 albums.

It may not be a consensus view, but I think the most interesting jazz of the past 20 years has predominantly come from the free improv, European, and avant-garde camp however you may define it. I don't think any list of post-1980 jazz albums would be complete without something by Anthony Braxton, Cecil Taylor, Evan Parker, John Zorn, Ellery Eskelin, Marilyn Crispell, Michael Moore, Han Bennink, Ken Vandermark, Misha Mengelberg, Steve Lacy, and others.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 15:14 (twenty-three years ago)

Dominique: You were right. I was wrong.

If only you were my wife, then I could be vindicated more often. And gay. Nevermind.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 15:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think any list of post-1980 jazz albums would be complete without something by Anthony Braxton, Cecil Taylor, Evan Parker, John Zorn, Ellery Eskelin, Marilyn Crispell, Michael Moore, Han Bennink, Ken Vandermark, Misha Mengelberg, Steve Lacy, and others

So go on then. Suggest a few records and let's see if we get any seconders. I've notice these names come up often on ILM, so it's not out of the question that others will agree. Ta for the link, by the way.

― Jeff W, Tuesday, 10 September 2002 15:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Horace Tapscott's "The Dark Tree" with John Carter, Cecil McBee and Andrew Cyrille is considered canonical by anyone who's heard it.

― dan (dan), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 15:31 (twenty-three years ago)

OK, then. Here are some personal faves:

1981 - Anthony Braxton, Six Compositions: Quartet
1986 - Anthony Braxton, Five Compositions (Quartet), 1986
1991 - Alex Schlippenbach Trio, Elf Bagatellen (feat. Evan Parker)
1992 - ICP Orchestra, Bospaadje Konijnehol 1 (feat. Misha Mengelberg, Michael Moore, and Han Bennink)
1993 - Cecil Taylor, Always a Pleasure; Marilyn Crispell, Cascades; Steve Lacy, Revenue
1994 - John Zorn, Masada Vol. 1 - Alef; Caffeine, Caffeine (feat. Ken Vandermark)
1996 - Ellery Eskelin, The Sun Died
1999 - Clusone Trio, Rara Avis (feat. Michael Moore and Han Bennink)

It will be amazing if this goes through without and formatting errors.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 15:37 (twenty-three years ago)

I second the Eskelin and Clusone Trio.

― dan (dan), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 15:51 (twenty-three years ago)

I second Sharrock - Ask the Ages.
I LOVE "Expansion, Power Release" - Matthew Shipp String Trio and "Pastoral Compsure" Matthew Shipp Quartet.
I have heard good things about Dave Douglas' Tiny Bell Trio and Susi Ibarra's trio as well.

― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 17:21 (twenty-three years ago)

James Carter--anything he's recorded has been very smart/entertaining/worth listening to

Horace Tapscott--The Dark Trees Pt. 1 & 2 (I think that's the title) on Hatology is FABulous.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 18:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Fuck it, here are some badass jazz records:

Ellery Eskelin, 12+1 Imaginary Views
Hal Russell, Finnish Tour
Dave Douglas' Tiny Bell Trio, Constellations
Don Byron, No Vibe Zone
Uri Caine, Urlicht/Primal Light
Chris Speed, Emit
Tim Berne, Lowlife

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 18:39 (twenty-three years ago)

If there's going to be a Wynton it should probably be Black Codes From the Underground...that's a great album, come on, no matter how much he hates electricity. Does anyone agree?

― Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 19:26 (twenty-three years ago)

it's the only wm i own, which is not strictly speaking the same thing

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 20:31 (twenty-three years ago)

The Die Like A Dog Quartet's "Little Birds Have Fast Hearts" (Brotzmann/Kondo/Parker/Drake) is more fun than any canon should be allowed.

I second the Eskelin Trio and the Chris Speed.

Let's add some class to the canon with Haden/Bley/Motian--either "Memoirs" or the live in Montreal thing.

― dan (dan), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 20:42 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd been under the false impression that Dominique was a female person and had found myself taken by the thought of this woman who listens to The Ruins and Bob Drake and the Improvised Music From Japan box. Smitten even. Oh well.

― dan (dan), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 20:50 (twenty-three years ago)

why so hung up on gender dan? improvised is as improvised does...

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 20:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Old ideas, Mark. I am ruled by them.

― dan (dan), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 21:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Perverts, the both of you. Dominique Wilkins was the human highlight film, and unfortunately I can never be that for anyone here.

Because I'm married.

To a woman.

And I'm not gay.

And I don't have internet affairs anyway.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 21:08 (twenty-three years ago)

glad we cleared that up. [[claps hands]] now, back to the jazz

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 21:43 (twenty-three years ago)

also thought dominique was a woman until mark slapped me.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 10 September 2002 21:45 (twenty-three years ago)

I like calling Mr. Leone "'Nique," which was also the Human Highlight Film's nickname.

What do you think about Black Codes, Mr. Sinker?

Interesting how many post-'80s favorites are "out" -- interesting but not surprising. It's no wonder that jazz is marginilzed now.

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 11 September 2002 00:57 (twenty-three years ago)

"Interesting how many post-'80s favorites are "out" -- interesting but not surprising. It's no wonder that jazz is marginilzed now."

I hope you are not asserting that those of us who like AG jazz are the ones keeping the music out of the limelight. A lot of people listen to the mainstream stuff as background music! I am not being a snob, I am just saying that people who need a CD to throw a classy cocktail party are not the ones who are gonna make jazz meaningful to mainstream society(unless they fall in love with their one CD, buy more, and do something about the lack of attention jazz receives).

I should also add that you are speaking to a self-selecting group of people.

If I am totally misinterpreting your comment, well, yeah it is too bad that people don't care about jazz like they used to.

― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Wednesday, 11 September 2002 01:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Off the top of my head:

Jason Moran - Black Stars
William Parker Quartet - Raining On The Moon
Charlie Haden - Quartet West
John Zorn - Naked City
Andrew Hill - Dusk
all of the Dave Holland Quintet records

― armando, Wednesday, 11 September 2002 02:34 (twenty-three years ago)

And yes, dleone, Ellery Eskelin's 12(+1) Imaginary Views is a "badass jazz record."

― armando, Wednesday, 11 September 2002 02:36 (twenty-three years ago)

There are a lot of, probably great, out records being suggested but I;d agree that few if any will be widely heard. The reason i suggested Nils Peter Molvaer was that he is actually pretty popular across the board. When he played in Dublin last year I went along expecting the palce to be half empty and it was packed. I meet a wide range of people there from the usual suspects to people who hardly go to gigs much nevermind jazz, and all of them were raving about it (with good reason).

A personal favourite would be the Barry Gy New Orchestra's Inscape Tableux but the performance it of it in Dublin only attracted a fraction of the audience NPM got and it was definitly the usual AG gig suspects.

― tigerclawskank, Wednesday, 11 September 2002 09:57 (twenty-three years ago)

brad mehldau.
but i list it because he does radiohead covers.
you made me realize how all the jazz records i buy are from the 70s backwards.

― joan vich (joan vich), Wednesday, 11 September 2002 10:07 (twenty-three years ago)

well isn't the reason that the 80s-now canon = "more out than not" that with jazz, "in" = styles of the past (esp. swing, cool, bebop, hard bop), which are widely available in nicely packaged version of orig.format (more so possibly than any other semi-popular form) => there are marsalisoids who'd put him above cecil or ornette, obv, but there are v.few marsalisoids indeed who'd put him above ellington and armstrong

in fact the marsalis position is pretty much that the canon stopped with ESP, and everything since either works within that territory, or is "not jazz"

i haven't listened to black codes fr abt 15 yrs mark, which is why i wz circumspect

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 11 September 2002 10:57 (twenty-three years ago)

I haven't heard enough jazz from the 80s to present to write the book, but all of these albums mentioned are very good.

John Zorn - Naked City
Sonny Sharrock - Ask the Ages
James Blood Ulmer - Odyssey
Ornette Coleman - Virgin Beauty

I'd also recommend these records.

Ronald Shannon Jackson - Mandance
Pharoah Sanders - Journey to the One

Also "Seize the Rainbow" by Sharrock and "Are You Glad to be in America" by James Blood Ulmer are also good listens. Sharrock is the only jazz guitarist that I ever saw come out with a Marshall stack.

I also like some of the Pat Metheny Group's music, but those seem to be too poppy for alot of jazz fans, who only seem to like the records when he records with the old masters like Roy Haynes, Billy Higgins, Charlie Hayden, etc... I like "Off Ramp" and "Still Life (Talking)" quite a bit. I got to see him live a couple of times in high school back in those days and the PMG was quite a good show.

― earlnash, Wednesday, 11 September 2002 12:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Initially, Vandermark 5 and Sex Mob come to mind for their most recent offerings, however, time will be the better judge their overall value.

Specifically, i'd site:

Al DiMeola, John McLaughlin & Paco DeLucia's classic Friday Night in San Francisco
Keith Jarrett At the Blue Note: Saturday, June 4th 1994
Ben Webster's 1995 re-tread Music With Feeling
Randy Weston's passionate Marrakech in the Cool of the Evening
Bela Fleck's ...& the Flecktones and Flight of the Cosmic Hippo
Tim Berne's Bloodcount.

Jazz seems to be re-inventing itself through other styles (see Groove Collective and United Future Organization), but i'll suggest that innovative groups like Tortoise are pushing the envelope a bit and hint at a totally new direction.

P.S. --oh yes, don't forget the critical darling Buena Vista Social Club.

― christoff (christoff), Wednesday, 11 September 2002 14:20 (twenty-three years ago)

but buena vista social club has nothing to see with 80's jazz!
a lot of son montuno, afrocuban music and hints of latin jazz...
there's another film called "calle 54" which way jazzier: it features bebo and chucho valdés, paquito d'rivera, tito puente and others, playing their current vision of latin jazz, more modern than that on BVSC (i must say i prefer the old cuban "abuelos", though).

― joan vich (joan vich), Wednesday, 11 September 2002 14:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Since I mentioned it on the Joyce thread I'd suggest her Tardes Cariocas album - there's no date on my copy but she has a tshirt saying "Brazil 1983" on the back cover so I assume its from around then.

BVSC is pants compared to the Estrellas De Areito album that World Circuit put out at the same time, but it was recorded late 70's.

― tigerclawskank, Wednesday, 11 September 2002 14:48 (twenty-three years ago)

joan vich,

Aren't we looking for titles from 1980 to present?

― christoff (christoff), Wednesday, 11 September 2002 14:56 (twenty-three years ago)

I wouldn't consider what I've heard from the Buena Vista Social Club so far to be jazz.

― DeRayMi, Wednesday, 11 September 2002 15:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Kenny Garett 'Songbook', 'Requiem' would be my pick for Branford, definitely some Dave Holland (the 80s group with Steve Coleman and the current quintent, 'Prime Directive is my favorite), Dave Douglas (Soul on Soul, Leap of Faith, the new one), one of the recent Masada live albums. I would include Happy Apple as well, because they fucking rule.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 11 September 2002 19:52 (twenty-three years ago)

You my find this info useful:

Modern Jazz Guitar

Pat Metheny & Ornette Coleman: Song X (Geffen, 1986)
John Scofield: Time On My Hands (Blue Note, 1989)
Raoul Bjorkenheim & Krakatau: Ritual (Cuneiform, 1990)
John Abercrombie: November (ECM, 1992)
Derek Bailey: Harras (Avant, 1995)
Joe Morris: Age of Everything (Riti, 2002)

Free Improv

Company: Once (1987)
Cecil Taylor: Leaf Palm Hand (1988)
Charles Gayle: Touchin’ on Trane (1991)
Evan Parker: 50th Birthday (1994)
Evan Parker: Lines Burnt in Light (2001)

Post-Bop Records of the Modern Era

Joe Henderson: State of the Tenor
Bobby Watson: Love Remains
Woody Shaw: Bemsha Swing
James Williams: Progress Report
Wynton Marsalis: Black Codes
Mulgrew Miller: Hand in Hand
Joe Lovano: From The Soul
Kenny Garrett: Triology
Marc Cary: Cary On
Terence Blanchard: Romantic Defiance
Wallace Roney: Quintet
Ravi Coltrane: Moving Pictures
Marc Copland: Softly

Scaruffi - The Best Jazz Albums of the 1980's see link by year. Also The best of the decade:

Tim Berne: Fractured Fairy Tales (1989)
Anthony Davis: Lady of the Mirrors (1980)
Joe McPhee: Topology (1981)
Henry Threadgill: When Was That (1982)
Borbetomagus: Barbet Wire Maggot (1983)
Bobby Previte: Claude's Late Morning (1988)
David Torn: Best Laid Plans (1985)
George Russell: Electronic Sonata For Souls Loved By Nature (1980)
James Newton: Luella (1983)
Steve Lacy: Regeneration (1983)

Scaruffi - The Best Jazz Albums of the 1990's see link by year. Also The best of the decade:

Charlie Haden: Dream Keeper (1990)
Butch Morris: Dust To Dust (1990)
Toshiko Akiyoshi: Desert Lady (1994)
Myra Melford: Even the Sounds Shine (1994)
Matthew Shipp: Circular Temple (1990)
Michael Formanek: Wide Open Spaces (1990)
Maria Schneider: Evanescence (1992)
Don Byron: Tuskegee Experiments (1991)
Sonny Sharrock: Ask the Ages (1991)
Franz Koglmann: Cantos I-IV (1993)

also The Best Jazz Albums of the 2000's

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 12 September 2002 13:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Blimey! ta Martian.
And thanks to all for their suggestions. Keep 'em coming (Andrew L to thread?) and/or rubbish others' nominees if you want...

― Jeff W (Jeff W), Thursday, 12 September 2002 16:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Aren't we looking for titles from 1980 to present?

christoff,

yes. jazz titles from 1980 to present. that's why my previous post.

― joan vich (joan vich), Thursday, 12 September 2002 17:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Define jazz?

Amon Tobin - Permutations
Red Snapper - Prince Blimey
Four Tet - Dialogue

― Charlie (Charlie), Friday, 13 September 2002 05:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Hi Jeff, most of the recs I would've picked have already been mentioned - glad there's a consenus forming around 'Ask The Ages', although I think Sharrock's 'Guitar' alb is at least as gd, and I'd suggest treating 'Seize the Rainbow' w/ a lot more caution - to me it marks the point where Sonny really started to slip into MOR noodling hell... There are also the Last Exit albs from the 80s, w/ Sharrock, Brotzmann, Laswell and Jackson - all have their moments, even if the production sound already seems a bit dated.

Also agree abt/got to mention: Masada (pref one of their live recs), some of Dave Douglas's solo albs ('Charms of the Night Sky' etc.), that Nils Peter Molvaer rec, 'The Cure' or 'At The Deer Head Inn' by Jarrett's Standards Trio, the first two recs by The Grassy Knoll ('experimental' cut-up jazzy outfit), and for a totally pleasing retro jazzbo excursion, the 'Afterglow' S/T by Mark Isham (w/ Charles Lloyd, Geri Allen, Gary Burton etc.)

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Friday, 13 September 2002 10:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, and somebody who I always forget to mention on threads like this - Billy Jenkins.

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Friday, 13 September 2002 14:59 (twenty-three years ago)

seven months pass...

Peter Brotzmann Chicago Octet/Tentet 3-disc set
David S Ware - Tao
Matthew Shipp - Critical Mass
Charles Gayle - More Live at the Knitting Factory
Paul Flaherty/Randall Colbourne Quartet - Visitants
Paul Flaherty/Randall Colbourne/Richard Downs - Third Rail
Arthur Doyle Quartet - Live at the Cooler
William Parker/In Order to Survive - The Peach Orchard
FJF - Blow Horn
William Hooker - Tibet

...to name a few.

― John Bullabaugh (John Bullabaugh), Sunday, 27 April 2003 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

World Saxophone Quartet, 'Dances and Ballads,' 'Rhythm and Blues,' a bunch more. 'R&B' is a brilliant anti-genrefication statement.
Lester Bowie, 'I Only Have Eyes for You.'
Marc Ribot y los Cubanos Postizos, 'Muy Divertido!'
Helen Merrill/Ron Carter, 'Duets.'

I certainly listen to some '80s Miles records more than others, but I adore 'We Want Miles.'

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Thursday, 16 September 2004 02:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh yeah, Lounge Lizards, 'No Pain for Cakes.'

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Thursday, 16 September 2004 03:21 (twenty-one years ago)

And Marcus Roberts, 'Deep in the Shed.'

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Thursday, 16 September 2004 03:22 (twenty-one years ago)

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